michelide
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Posts posted by michelide
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Hi All,
I recently had to diagnose a very complex problem that I was having with a new material and at this point have been able to mostly fix the problem but still do not know the root cause of the problem. Perhaps you could comment and help me out.
Excess nozzle pressure was causing the feeder to jam up to the point where it was digging into the filament and flexing it into an S.
After trial and error with cura and and ultimaker 2+ firmware settings I went through about 8 meters of material on the spool.
Cura settings that didn't seem to have any impact on this issue:
Printing the first layer thicker
Printing different layer thicknesses
Printing at different speeds
Printing at different temperatures in the material range
Printing more than one model concurrently on the build plate
Equalize filament flow (I still have it checked but checking it didn't fix this by itself)
Slower layers, slower layers did not help, I've set slower layers to 0.
Ultimaker 2+ firmware settings that didn't seem to have any impact on this issue
Printing with TPU 95 material setting (it printed the same as custom setting)
Print layers faster or slower
I then started adjusting the flow rate at different times during printing and this didn't completely fix the problem it only mostly fixed the problem.
I talked to form futura to get the recommended material settings for ultimaker 2+, I am working with an MD Flex Antimicrobial Nanocomposite material. Its a flexible 95A TPU. I was using recommended range of settings but still having issue. More temperature out of the material range would burn the material. No settings were clogging the material in the extruder. The flow out of the extruder was perfect when feeding without the build plate below it and very fast. The problem was only occurring when printing and only during 1 layer of printing. It didn't matter if a printed one or two models. I had the same problem on the same layer and every single time it caused the feeder to press too much pressure into the nozzle and caused damage to the material in the feeder.
During the final moments before the material in the feeder would become damaged I noticed that the nozzle started pressing way too much material out it was spewing a foamy or bubbly mess, it always started on layer 3 or layer 4. This happened on every printing every time because pressure was building up in the nozzle between the initial layer and the fourth layer to the point of damaging the material. This is when I started adjusting the filament flow manually on the printer while it was printing and checking nozzle pressure in the extruder by manually bobbing the bowden tube while it was printing to determine at what point pressure was building up in the extruder. After the first 2-3 layers went down perfect no matter what above listed settings I saw that the pressure started building up in the nozzle. This pressure happened quicker with 100% filament flow and less quickly with 40% filament flow. After two layers at 40% filament flow I had to reduce the filament flow to 10% before the pressure started building up for one layer. During this 10% layer the printer still extruded less foamy and bubbly material but it was not as bad. Directly after this excess material ejection I set the flow back to 100% with no more issues.
I've now printed 4 parts like with manually adjusting the flow settings with no feeder issues and I still have the problem on the 3rd or 4th layer where it seems something about either the GCode or the Printer firmware is trying to clear the nozzle during printing when it doesn't need to around the 3rd or 4th layer.
Any ideas on how to fix this so I do not need to watch the print between layer 0 and layer 4?
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I'm using an ultimaker 2 with a stock machine profile with cura 4.4 freshly installed and freshly updated firmware on the machine. My machine is also massively under extruding. Its like that either cura or the firmware thinks that i have an ultimaker 2+ machine even though I have selected ultimaker 2 in cura as my machine. There are some other strange problems in my setup also including that it is printing every other line for the bottom.
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I guess I got both my ultimaker 2s before they removed the second hole from the fan plate, the aluminum block and plastic material feed through shell... It was quite a bit of work adapt the parts from the extruder upgrade kit and mix them with the original parts that were already on the machine...
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bastienb I believe I might have already been able to to do what you are saying with tinkerware. I was able to print something with extruder 1 by itself without using extruder 2 then was able to print with extruder 2 without using extruder 1. My issue occured when I tried using both extruders in a single print. If you only need to use one extruder at a time for a print that is achievable with tinkerware without modifying start or end code. The only adjustments that I had to make to print with extruder 1 or extruder 2 were in cura by enabling an extruder and disabling an extruder with a custom FDM printer profile with marlin G code.
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My print head is slamming into the front left of my machine between printing the first layer of extruder 1 and the skirt of extruder 2.
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If there is no retraction the material will continue to heat in the extruder and melt out. If the retraction is too short an amount of material will still heat up and drip out. It seems that reducing the temperature slightly and retracting by an exact amount is necessary to keep the material of the not in use extruder from dripping all over the place. Do you think the red line could be because the material is slowly melting out of the extruder? The strange thing is that the red material seems like a somewhat even extrusion.
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Is this a dual extruder print?
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I'm still having issues on this subject but so far i've pieced together
Extrusion upgrade kit (hardware)
Tinkerware (firmware)
Use Marlin GCode from Cura
Make custom Start and End Code in cura
Still trying to get tinkerware to work well with dual extrusion without having head travel issues. It could be start and end code that cura is inserting...
Also If you upgrade your cura to 3.4.1 and delete the base printer cura thinks that it is corrupt and if you say yes to the window that pops up it will delete all your custom machine configurations that you create.
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There are some tests that I did initially with my UM2 to learn about several important factors of printing to learn how to get things more dimensionally correct. One was by creating a 1cmx1cmx1cm cube then placing an array of 16 or 25 equally spaced cubes in cura on the print bed. This tested several things including:
1.) With current settings how accurate are the cubes individually and how different are they across the entire printing surface. You might note that your bed is slightly un level or that fanning causing different cubes end up slightly different because of fanning near a wall or that cubes near the front cool faster on one side because they are near the front opening of the machine. You may also note that the bed temp has slight variations across the entire surface which do not necessarily cause a great deal of change to happen but they do contribute to .01mm at times.
2.) You may also note how the material is printing and how sharp edges can get with the material. Edges can get pretty sharp. The original provided material is usually best to do this with as it should be the first material that you learn about. Some things you may also see is how when the fan goes on and the layers build the shrinkage of the material may change between the build plate and the currently layer. Usually low layers are exact then depending on the material you might see the wall shrink in slightly until you get to about 3-5 mm high (if you are using full fan right from the 2nd layer). Lower initial fan usually helps this and you only need full fan when you are trying to bridge from area to area.
3.) Between cubes you will also see how effective material pulls are and how they differ between layer heights, if it is leaving a trail if there are pull differences between the cubes and if there are differences between areas on the bed.
I wouldn't recommend going all the way to the edge but go kinda close to the printable edge with each cube placement. I have been able to get resolutions that fit by placing offsets in 3D files that I created by +/- 0.008. I'm not sure if your parts have that built on or if they are exact edges.
Without altering the file you could note that part areas that cool fast seem to have more shrinkage then slower cooling parts areas, smaller parts seem to shrink less than large parts (add more space between in infill with larger parts) one more thing that you can try is to turn off the fan and repeat the cube array print to see what happens with your material. You'll notice difference between printing with fan and without fan.
You could also speed up the print slightly or reduce the extrusion speed slightly to thin down excessively thick walls.
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Yes I now see M103 is not supported by marlin in the chart. Wow what a complication of GCODE!
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I now see that reprap is a better source for G code reference than the marlin website and yes M103 is described on reprap as turning all extruders off. Thanks!
M103 also causes extruder retraction as a default?
M104 T1 S0 would be to set temp of extruder 1 to 0?
M104 T2 S0 would be to set temp of extruder 2 to 0?
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Hi tinkergnome,
I am using Cura 3.4.1 with custom FDM printer with Marlin G Code (I also tried ultimaker 2 gcode with same result).
I did not previously check the file but just did by find *X0*, then find *Y0* in notepad. It doesn't appear to have any. The file is also attached here (Block Alignment 4.gcode) and an image of the file.
The start and end GCode that was placed in the file was default in cura 3.4.1. It wasn't something that I placed there.
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For the
M104 S0 ;extruder heater offThis turns the last used extruder heater off? Does this also turn the other extruder hotend off?
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Hi Nicolinux,
Yes I did set GCode to Marlin but have been troubleshooting back and forth between Ultimaker 2 and Marlin. I will set to Marlin for the next test.
I will give this a try for priming extruder 1 if I'd like to prime both extruders would I repeat this:
G92 E0 G1 F400 E40 G92 E0 G1 F100 E10 Z7.0 F50 G92 E0 G1 X10 Y15 Z0.5 F500 G92 E0 G1 F9000over again while replacing E0 with E1 (for extruder 2)?
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Hi Nicolinux
I have previously read through some of the mark 2 posts and had some comments from foehnsturm because originally I thought that mark 2 was what I was looking for for firmware for adding dual extrusion to my ultimaker 2. When I found out that this is for two independent single extruders this was not really what I wanted to try first. I wanted to get two extuders in the same print head going first to see how that behaves and I also had the parts to add two extruders into one print head. This is why I kept searching and came across the Tinker firmware. It seems that all I need is a description of what to use together to get it working because it seems like there is a lot of cura management/firmware management and interchanges in between that could be creating my problem where the extruder is smashing into the front left of my machine. I catch it each time before it does with the power switch but it would be nice to get dual extruders working at some capacity before figuring out if I want to go to something else. I can see that for some reason the Ultimaker 2 board heats up the second extruder slower than the first extruder and am not sure if that is hardware or software controlling that rate. As in previous updates I have both extruders working independently and I can run prints without issues but when I create GCode that runs both extruders to try to align print headset the GCode causes the machine to have the smashing issue. After extensive testing across the latest tinkerware and cura slicer I'm not really sure if its the new cura or the tinkerware that is causing the issue. This is why i am looking for a known good combination.
This is the system configuration that I am working with
Ultimaker 2
Extruder upgraded inserted as Extruder 1
Original Extruder inserted as Extruder 2
Tinkerware firmware (tried 17.10.1 and 17.10 with both Dual and Plus firmwares)
Cura 3.4.1 (haven't tried older cura for slicing yet)
Model: So far I have only tried printing alignment models so that I can measure and update the extruder offset and I haven't been able to finish a print yet. The model that I have been trying uses Extruder 1 to create the skirt then the base of the model, after layer 1 of extruder 1 the Gcode then tells the printer to switch to extruder 2, extruder 2 then creates its own skirt on layer one then before printing anything (because there isn't anything there in the model to print it sends the print head to the front left). In the model that I am trying to print there is no actual use of extruder 2 until 6-8 layers later. This leads me all the way to thinking that something is going on with the plate adhesion being printed by both extruder 1 and extruder 2 because in cura you can only select extruder 1 or extruder 2 but not both to print built plate adhesion.
here is an image of the model, the yellow is extruder 1 and the purple is extruder 2, extruder 1 prints a base and upon completion I would be able to measure the distance between the yellow wall and the purple wall to set the offset between extruder 1 and extruder 2. From there I would have a calibrated machine. If there was overhang of purple forward or backward I could also adjust that distance, but not likely because I have all Ultimaker 2 original parts in the print head. Yes I took apart the extrusion upgrade and swapped parts back and forth to get everything to work mechanically and was able to route all the extruder wires in a way where the lengths of the wires laid out neatly in the machine. It really seems to be firmware/software handover issue or cross-compatibility issue between different versions of each it could be a Ultimaker/Marlin GCode handover issue I'm really not sure at this point.
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The above was tested with cura 3.4.1 and Tinkerware V17.10 and V17.10.1 Marlin and Ultimaker 2 G code flavors, same resulting issue with direction of extruder head colliding with front left of machine after extruding skirt of second extruder.
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Cura 3.4.1, configured with custom FDM printer configured for Dual Extruder, Ultimaker 2 (+) loaded with Either Tinker Marlin Dual or Tinker Marlin 2+, neither work when exporting Ultimaker 2 G code or marlin G code from Cura. The common symptom to all the configurations cross-tested is that the extruder print head returns to front left corner and jams itself into the wall inbetween printing the first layer from extruder 1 and the Skirt from extruder 2.
The Cura 3.4.1 software has a common setting for skirt from Extruder 1 and Extruder 2 so initially i surprised me when extruder 2 was printing a skirt. There must be some overlap between the extruder 1 and extruder commands in the GCode when using Cura 3.4.1
Could someone point me towards if I should downgrade from Cura 3.4.1 to an earlier version to use with Tinkerware and Dual Extrusion?
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Did you get an enclosure with your S5 to seal it off from the variations in temperature and humidity from the environment? I've found that a lot of my printing issues were initially from changes in temperature and heating and cooling fanning in the office space. The settings for materials in cura seem to work best in only ideal conditions with ideal materials. It is better to go by what temperature range is written on the material rather than by the cura setting for the material. Different PLA for example may behave slightly different because they came from different manufacturers or because they are filled with other materials such as wood or stone or carbon fiber etc. It is probably best to learn how to optimize your settings for each material rather than rely on cura to do it for you. IMO the settings built into cura for materials (which have come about in the last series of upgrades are good for baseline and you end up tweaking them anyways. Its difficult to know if a material when you purchase it will work 100% perfect with the cura setting. Historically some materials also did not feed as well through the bowden tube as other materials such as very flexible materials. The material setting in cura does not change the speed of the machine or the feedrate to make it work perfectly. Or did they add this feature on the S5? Some materials simply cannot be pushed out of the extruder fast enough to keep up with the speed of the print head and so you must slow down your print. Increasing temperature to the upper point of the material spec (on the material) often burns materials for exotic materials, sometimes even during retract actions.
I would say that the issues you have there require little tweaks so I wouldn't go crazy. If you want a print that is 100% perfect start with the material that ultimaker provided with your machine and figure out why that one doesn't print 100% perfect before moving on to another material and see how both materials differ. The ultimaker material will likely be the closest to the PLA setting in cura. I have to say initially when I received my UM2 several years ago with standard temp and speed I was burning the material. The first thing you might want to do with the ultimaker material and PLA setting is reduce the speed and temperature from the cura setting until you find the exact speed and temperature and fan speed that will create perfect bridges across block structures. This will likely be the best setting to use with the material.
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This is still an open question. It takes quite some time to manually feed prime two extruders while waiting for them each to heat up.
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The issue that I now have is that in between using different extruders the printer moves towards the front left to the wall. I have to try the other version of the firmware "2"+ instead of "dual".
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Yes that is correct however I am having issues using both extruders in a print. There are two versions of the firmware and I still have to try the other one.
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I came across some problems with the configuration that I am using perhaps there is a solution perhaps there isn't.
Summary:
I started with an Ultimaker 2, and upgraded the extruder with the extruder upgrade kit and instead of throwing out the old extruder I moved it over to extruder 2. With tinkerware I was able to get both extruders working individually and was able to make good prints after changing the feedrate and inverting the axis to be correct. I then tried to make a gcode file print with both extruders and got through the cura difficulties with merging the file and managing the different temperatures etc. Neither Marlin or Ultimaker 2 GCode can complete the print. I haven't modified any start or end code. When the printer finishes extruding layer 1 and switches to extrude layer 2 the print head is instructed to make a skirt with extruder 2 instead of priming the extruder then upon completeing the skirt the print head moves to the front left corner of the machine or to the homing position then to the front left corner where it tries to push the print head into the wall. I have seen this before when print errors happen so I caught it.
Any clue on a resolution? Do I need to go back to an older cura version to do dual extrusion? Should I swap my tinker ware to the ultimaker 2+ version rather than the dual extrusion version? What other configuration adjustments should I make?
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Hi All,
I believe I have stumbled upon something new to me that I have not yet encountered. I remember all the way back to when the ultimaker 2 was first released. The start and end code in cura did not pull the material out of the extruder after completing a print and fed the extruder tip a larger amount of material when starting. I have recently upgraded the feeder to the Ultimaker 2+ extruder and adjusted the feedrate accordingly (it prints excellently). Now the issue that I am having is that everytime I do a print I have to manually prime the extruder by moving the material in the firmware because the material move is either too short or at the wrong feedrate.
Is this something I have to add into start and/or end code in cura upon making the file to print? What kind of additions to the code do I need?
I'd prefer the material to not be removed from the extruder tip on completion and to be able to adjust the amount that the material extrudes before starting the print. This way I can change materials after each print (if I need to) and clean the tip by pulling the material out when it is almost cool. Or leave the material in so that it ejects more previously melted and solidified material the next time I print. Thereby preventing clogs and material blending in between changes.
Best Regards,
MicheliDE
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Thanks for the help. I ended up going with tinkerware and adjusting the feedrate and direction in the firmware. It is working as expected. If I had simply adjusted the direction with the wires on the motor there would have still been a feedrate issue.
Excess Nozzle Pressure Causing Feeder Problem
in UltiMaker 3D printers
Posted
Hi All,
Can anyone comment on this? I've now noticed it for other materials too. Really frustrating. Is there a way to turn the extruder head clearing during print off?