Artiz
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Posts posted by Artiz
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Lots of good information in here. I see a fair amount of stringing, do you think this is just the nature of the material or something that can be tuned out?
I didn't use any retraction at all and printed both these handle components at 0.17 layer height so I'm sure most will get much better 'precision' results than me... these took about 11 hours each by using an 0.8 nozzle to get them out nice and quick (at 50mms)... I am also very much into my post print work so waiting 30-35 hours each print doesn't make much sense for me and my large prototypes. I reckon these 'quick' prints above are much more of a 'baseline' than anything else with the stringing probably part of my settings although it may also be an aspect of the material.
The top image is an extension to my handles and I printed that at much finer settings (can't remember them now) and the difference is very clear.
Lastly, I only used a 2.8mm wall and 2.0mm Top/Bottom and 20% infill setting and yet the strength is still uncanny... as I said above... this material is literally peerless!
Thanks for your comment by the way.
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It's a nice material to sand down. I'll use a polyurethane spray to seal when I have bonded both parts together with a polyurethane bonding agent (Titebond) and finished all my post print work.
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So, if the new ones are easier to print and behave differently, then success with them might not reflect perfect results on the generic stuff I have.
I get the feeling that messing around with your 'generic' stuff without a point of reference may just be a bit of a waste of time and even perhaps money... then again why not of course.
The other polycarb you couldn't remember is PC-Plus by the way and I really didn't like that stuff... far too brittle and almost impossible to get a decent print out of it.
The polycarbonate enigma is an interesting one though and I do actually think that Polymaker have finally cracked it with PC-Max... I did get a small amount of warping below but nothing serious... the strength really is something special...
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Wolfbite MEGA has actually worked well for me but only with Polymaker's PC-Max.
What exactly is "plain old classic polycarb"?
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Absolutely no problems with it coming off the glass... although I did make the mistake of allowing it to cool before sticking it in the oven for an hour at 100C... it warped very slightly as it cooled and detached itself from the glass/hot plate but not enough thankfully to affect the print. Easy enough to just remove the glass and the print together but make sure it goes into the oven straight away... as soon as the print is finished. The annealing process just relaxes the print so that any further/future warping is checked. After an hour just turn the oven off but leave it inside to cool slowly (20-30mins) after which the print has virtually detached itself.
You can just wash off the WolfBite residue from the glass too so no scraping or scratching... big bonus.
I am currently printing the other half of my handle and will put up some images when done.
The finished prints seem to have a very slight flexibility which just adds to this material's strength and durability... this stuff can really take the knocks, bashes and drops... ideal for my mechanical/functional purposes that's for sure.
Only negative is the Raft hasn't come off easily so I may need to do quite a bit of sanding down to get the measurements absolutely correct when bonding my 2 parts together.
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I also tried a reel of the PC-Plus and I have to say I think its a bit on the rubbish side... very brittle and virtually impossible to get a decent large print out of it... despite hours of frigging around with it.
Whereas the PC-Max is excellent when used with WolfBite Mega. Strength is stunning, printing is reasonably easy and just pops off the glass even after annealing.
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Following on from my previous post as I progressed onto my larger prints I experienced big problems with BuildTak. Seems OK for smaller prints but doesn't last very long either way which makes it kind of useless and it's far too expensive to use it per large print. I am currently trying Wolfbite MEGA with Polymaker's PC-Max and initially it did not perform well.
However after putting up the bed temp to 100C and putting at least 3 layers on it seems to be working at last. I also tried a couple of failed prints without a raft and that definitely does not work well. It is still extremely expensive for the amount you get (£20 for 60ml-delivered UK)... particularly regarding the amount you have to use to get it to work.
Having said that as you can see from the images below there is clearly no lift or warping of the Raft or indeed regarding this very large print itself... impressive so far but the real acid test will be the removal from the glass build plate after I have annealed the print. The precision of the build plate surface is obviously critical regarding my 2 piece handle when bonding both sides together... any serious warping will put my prints in the recycling bin.
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copied from Wolfbite thread
I am currently trying Wolfbite MEGA with polycarbonate (Polymaker's PC-Max) and initially it did not perform well.
However after putting up the bed temp to 100C and putting at least 3 layers on it seems to be working at last. I also tried a couple of prints without a raft and that definitely does not work well. It is still extremely expensive for the amount you get (£20 for 60ml-delivered UK)... particularly regarding the amount you have to use to get it to work.
Having said that as you can see from the image below there is clearly no lift or warping of the Raft or indeed regarding this very large print itself... impressive so far but the real acid test will be the removal from the glass build plate after I have annealed the print... it's a 2 piece handle for a speargun by the way.
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I am currently trying Wolfbite MEGA with polycarbonate (Polymaker's PC-Max) and initially it did not perform well.
However after putting up the bed temp to 100C and putting at least 3 layers on it seems to be working at last. I also tried a couple of prints without a raft and that definitely does not work well. It is still extremely expensive for the amount you get (£20 for 60ml-delivered UK)... particularly regarding the amount you have to use to get it to work.
Having said that as you can see from the image below there is clearly no lift or warping of the Raft or indeed regarding this very large print itself... impressive so far but the real acid test will be the removal from the glass build plate after I have annealed the print... it's a 2 piece handle for a speargun by the way.
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1+ on BuildTak being not the magical solution that it is put out to be...
I tried it and pretty much the first large print I made stuck so well, the BuildTak got destroyed in the attempt to remove the piece (and salvage the glass plate that it was stuck to).
I had some discussions about it in a FB group, and the consensus seemed to be that it worked really well once you nailed the leveling...
TBH, I think that requirement makes it not worth its pricetag, especially when failing to level in the magic distance required for a good BuildTak print, means you ruin the (pretty expensive) sheet, your print, and possibly the surface the BuildTak was attached to.
I have had pretty good results with water-diluted PVA glue (wood glue) on glass, heat up the bed and let it vaporize the water, leaving just a thin coat of glue.
However, if you make the glue solution too strong, you end up in pretty much the same scenario as with the BuildTak, where you can't get the print off.
I destroyed a few glass plates, where the print actually took pieces of glass with, it once it finally let go (this happed both with me prying the print, AND with it popping off by itself in the freezer).
I have now gone onto something I bought from a guy in the previously mentioned FB group, that he called "fiberplade" (fibre plate), from what I can tell it is (or at least is very similar to) the material you use to make PCBs with... That is, the epoxy based material that the etched copper sits on, however it just came without any copper and cut to size.
After sanding it lightly, it is so far the best print surface I have used, and also has some flex in it, so you can pop off prints easier than with eg. a glass plate.
great tip Tommy much thanks... my glass has just shattered with a Polymaker PC-plus print so I know exactly what you are talking about.
Any chance of a link to the fiberplate you are using... there seems to be a few different types...
P.S. I've also just ordered some Wolfbite Mega to give it a try.
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1/6 scale Darth Maul. Printed with PLA, 0.06 layer, 60mm speed.
Lightly sanded to remove support and 2 coats of primer, before second sanding
to remove seam line and artifacts.
The only appropriate word for this is WOW!
Absolutely stunning print... and he stands unaided too... well done!
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luisito is right Buildtak is hopeless... and with both PC-Max and PC-Plus. It does stick well enough for your first print but after that it just comes away and if that's not bad enough you can't even get it off the Buildtak surface without damaging the Buildtak and sometimes the print too... very lucky if you don't.
Not a good product in my opinion... it offers false hope. PC-Max/Plus both really warp very badly too... and especially on long and large prints.
I use a urethane bonding glue which I paint onto the glass 30 minutes before printing... works extremely well sometimes and then occasionally not very well at all... I haven't worked out why yet but I am currently trying to find out. It's still a poor solution though.
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Having just read these comments again for the first time gr5 I think I owe you an apology... you do a great job around this forum and my comments sound ungrateful... you just carry on doing what you do and ignore my nonsense...
kind regards...
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I'm currently trying out the Polymaker PC-Max which is looking like the real thing at last.
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The Polymaker PC-Max is excellent.
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I've been trying out Polymakers PC-Max and I am getting some good results on my 'unpimped' UM2 extended.
I have to say that nothing else works other than the Buildtak sheet which came with it regarding bed adhesion... the Buildtak still wants to detach from the glass after a couple of prints but it's still going after 4 medium/small prints and some hard work taking off the residue. I used a very sharp Stanley blade keeping it at a strict 45 degree angle to the surface scraping it back and forth very quickly to remove any left over material... which also seems to help the Buildtak sheet stick back down onto the glass.
I also use a cheap filler spreader for careful removal from the bed after it has cooled sufficiently... seems to make the process easier.
The mechanical strength really is peerless... I only bought my printers to build complete functional speargun prototypes and after a good deal of success with XT-CF20 I thought I'd give polycarb a try for even further strength and this PC-Max is actually proving even better suited to the job.
It's also nice to sand down when finished so layer height is not that important... I will also be sealing my prints (above) with a final coat of polyurethane spray but a finer layer height means less time sanding down and cleaner/smoother surfaces of course.
Main settings/observations so far include: nozzle temp 260C and Buildplate 80C... Raft is absolutely critical, when I tried Brim It warped like mad. The material flow also seems very important for layer adhesion... the best result so far has been a setting of 135% which gives a clean flat surface to each layer... whereas a lower % seems to produce a more ''stippled' or stringy layer effect. I'm still experimenting with speed but once the print is away about 40-45mms seems optimum so far.
Having tried a carbon/nylon mix previously Polymaker's PC-Max really puts it to shame and at £34.00 delivered from 3D FilaPrint it's an absolute bargain as far as I'm concerned... couldn't recommend it more highly.
This for me would appear to be a genuine functional/mechanical filament which is sensibly priced and reasonably easy to print with at last... easily comparable to manufactured plastics... possibly even better than most perhaps...
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Not really what you want to hear but with my own experience of XT-CF20 that kind of is the way it is really... with such a detailed print as yours I think you are going to struggle to actually get it to print too much better than you have already achieved. I use XT-CF20 for big solid prints so the issues which you are having are far less evident and eliminated with post print sanding/working down.... I hope I'm wrong though... much luck.
P.S. You could try slowing it down even further and then compensating with extra material flow and retraction perhaps.
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In conclusion I'd have to say that this is a reasonably good material... using my unusually large models as an example the final prints are OK. I think this material will take much lower layer heights than I used giving it a much cleaner finish than I achieved... although I am still reasonably happy with my end results.
The down side for me is that this material is not heavy enough for my personal projects... it doesn't have the 'feel' that I am looking for in a prototype speargun handle... it also doesn't have as much post print 'workability' as other carbon mixes... not so easy to sand down to a smooth finish and I also noticed some final warping when I bonded both sides of the handle assembly which meant I had to re-drill my holes... this material is not ideal for drilling. The other issues with this material is that it does suffer from nozzle blockages as well as the occasional feeder problem which has ruined more than a few prints.
Getting it to stick to the build plate is problematic but perhaps 3DSHOP.CA has found the perfect answer (above) to that problem with Ultimaker's adhesive sheets... I think Fiber Force also do a specialised fixing spray so probably a good idea to invest in either one of those if you plan to use this material.
Strength wise it does seem pretty good although I did drop my handle and a piece of the butt broke cleanly off so it is still somewhat limited by layer adhesion at the 0.15 setting. This material is also slightly more flexible than other carbon mixes which may result in an extended durability... time will tell.
LastIy, I found urethane glue and urethane sealer/varnish performs well with this filament...
Final Settings:
Nozzle 260C
Buildplate 70C
Material Flow 150-120%
No Fans
No Retraction
Speed 40mm/s but starting at 50% building up as the print progresses
Layer height .15
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I agree that I know of no 3d printable melted filaments that could do this other than peek. And the UM printers can't do PEEK without major modifications.
I just like to educate. I can't help teach. modulus of elasticity aka plain old modulus is a measure of flexibility where the higher the number, the stiffer. and the lower the number, the more rubbery.
tensile strength is how much pulling tension it can take before it is damaged or breaks (some people call it yield strenth where it's just enough that if you stop pulling it will recover). It's in psi (pounds pulled per square inch) or in pascals. Larger numbers are stronger.
Another measurement is elongation at fracture in percent which is interesting because if it's small like 1% then it's brittle like glass no matter how strong it is. And if it's larger then it is more likely to dent or stretch than shatter.
Bless... his hearts in the right place though innit...
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no no no! Not good for tiny gear teeth. taulman is WEAKER (or about the same) tensile strength than PLA and more flexible by about 6X. Would be worse than PLA for tiny gears.
Nylon is INCREDIBLY STRONG because it is so flexible. So for many applications like large gears you can put MUCH MORE FORCE on it than on PLA because due to the flexibility it will warp enough such that the forces are distributed all over the part. But the tensile strength is about the same as PLA. So for example if you made a short rope out of PLA and NYLON 910 they would each hold about the same weight but if you made a cube and drove a car over them the nylon would be fine but not the pla. The nylon would squish like a pancake and pop back up after the car passed over. Or if you made a stick and told someone to break it over their knee the PLA would break easily but not the nylon.
The problem for these gears is that nylon is too flexible - the gears would slip because the entire body of the gear would compress away from the teeth of the other gear. Once it starts slipping you get grinding and the nylon gears are soft and will rip to shreds. If you could add lots of pressure between the gears somehow (push the axis together with 10kg of force) then it could easily hold the 60 kg rotating force at the gear teeth. But adding 10kg of force between the gears will cause too much friction! Plus it might cause the metal gears to eventually wear the nylon.
You Yanks always make I laugh... if you're not an expert your Dad is...
You are quite probably correct Sherlock but telling him what he can or cannot do was not what the OP was asking us was it?
Burdickjp's alternative suggestion of using the same materials for both cogs was also a good a good idea rather than having metal on plastic.
I'll recap... he said that he is "quite sure" that they will need to be metal but then asked if there was any filament available that COULD replace it.
The cog is around 50mm long with an 11.5 diameter and fits into a 'rotating adaptor' which presumably is fitted too or joined to the moving part.
He did not mention that this cog was moving 10kg, 60kg or any other power/weight ratio... we simply do not know so your assumptions may be way off the mark... besides as you well know what some 3D printed parts are actually capable of is still very much part of the unknown... how durable they are even more arbitrary.
Let the OP make his/her own mind up whether to take note or not of suggestions and stop telling other contributors just how wrong they are and just how right you are... not required... no matter how much of an 'expert' you think you are... a forum is where contributors make suggestions which are either followed up or not... leave it at that thanks!
P.S. The final answer to the OP's question: Is there a filament strong enough to work for high torque gears?... erm... in this instance... No!
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UPDATE...
Bogus material flow settings in my original post are due to feeder issues which I have now resolved so please ignore...
Successful settings are pretty much the same as recommended by Fiber Force but I do put the material flow up to 150% for the float and then reduce back to 120% for the print itself.
It does seem advisable to get the print started at a 50% speed though... slower the better increasing as the print stabilises itself. For me 260C is still looking the right temp but I will try reducing/testing as the other half takes shape. I have not used retraction and the fans seemed to be drying the material too quickly so I turned them off.
I wish now that I had been a bit more ambitious with the layer height... these prints are at .15 but for a few extra hours I may have got a better finish at .1 or even perhaps slightly lower. I still have a bit more post print work but will complete this after I have bonded the two halves of the handle assembly together... still room for some aesthetic improvements.
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Whoa, that's cool!
What do you do with them? fishing (I mean obviously from the video). But do you spear one and then bag em then go catch another? Or it's like a 1 fish/swim type thing? Is it for sport/work/hobby?
Just curious why you need carbon fiber for this purpose? Wouldn't some other filament work? like polycarb? Nylon tends to absorb water, is that not a worry?
I appear to have a lot of questions
I'd better answer them then. I've been spearfishing for more than 40 years and also in and out of 3D design employment for the last 20 years so passion/hobby/work/obsession all rolled into one. Only bought my printers to make spearguns really... along with all the allied equipment that goes with it of course.
I have tested out quite a few different plastics but the preference for Carbon mixes come from the reliability/accuracy of the final 3D print... mainly because the parts need to accurately fit with things like the barrel and the trigger mechanism etc... the coefficient of variation with XT-CF20 is the best I have found so far... the 'workability' of the material is also very good so it will take some beating.
The nylon/water thing is obviously of interest/concern but after sealing it real testing can then begin.
I am very interested in polycarb and probably next on the list...
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You could maybe try blue tape + alcohol? I've never had Blue tape + alcohol not stick. The only problem is the tape itself may lift but will keep the part on the bed most of the time.
I have tried XT_CF20 numerous times and while it looks great and feels great, the strength feels worse than regular PLA. The layer bonding is REALLY terrible unless you print really slow and hot.
This italy stuff is REALLY strong in comparison I tried to break a few pieces and had a hard time. I'll try out the glass fiber tomorrow now that I know the CF works.
Agreed XT-CF20 = very hot and quite slow to print... but after bonding and a couple of coats of urethane varnish its as tough as old boots and very much at ease under the sea...
I've been using these prototype guns since early July...
XT-CF20 is also considerably heavier than this Nyleforce... and I'm yet to seal and test so a little way to go to actually beat Colorfabb's carbon mix just yet but definitely promising.
I'll look forward to your thoughts on the Glass fiber...
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You're quite ambitious trying such a large part.
Anyways, today, Success!! Finally able to print without a super warped print. Just slightly warped at the edges maybe 0.8mm at the extreme. (whereas the earliest test was over 1.4mm lift.
The magic solution seems to be the sheets that come with the advance printing kit from Ultimaker. It's a soft-ish sheet that you stick onto the glass. This stuff held on nicely to the print while printing and released without destroying itself after (so it's not a 1 use trick). Interestingly, bed temperature was set to 0. (room temp)
Great discovery... I presume you can only get those adhesive sheets with the advance printing kit though?
Having had much success with some of my ambitious large prints (actually they all are) using XT-CF20 I didn't think it was worth trying other filaments but this is looking very promising with it's added strength and (possible) extended durability... glad I've tried it.
Do you think some kind of tape could be as good as your adhesive sheets?
P.S. I do rather like your knives by the way...
Polymaker's PC-Max (Polycarbonate)
in Materials & profiles
Posted
Two excellent posts with loads more detailed info and settings Zwakie... thumbs up!