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anxjfarnorth

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    Upgraded my UM2 with plus kit now under extrusion

    in UltiMaker 3D printers

    Posted

    You need to start over and throw all your assumptions out (e.g. "I know it's not the _____").

    As far as underextrusion causes - there's just so damn many.  none of the issues seem to cause more than 20% of problems so you need to know the top 5 issues to cover 75% of the possibilities and 1/4 people still won't have the right issue.  Some of the top issues:

    1) Print slower and hotter!  Here are top recommended speeds for .2mm layers (twice as fast for .1mm layers) and .4mm nozzle:

    20mm/sec at 200C

    30mm/sec at 210C

    40mm/sec at 225C

    50mm/sec at 240C

    The printer can do double these speeds but with huge difficulty and usually with a loss in part quality due to underextrusion.  Different colors print best at quite different temperatures and due to imperfect temp sensors, some printers print 10C cool so use these values as an initial starting guideline and if you are still underextruding try raising the temp.  But don't go over 240C with PLA.

    2) Shell width confusion.  Shell width must be a multiple of nozzle size.  If nozzle size is .4mm and shell width is 1mm cura will make the printer do 2 passes with .5mm line width which is possible but requires you slow down much more to make a .5mm line out of a .4mm nozzle.  If you really want this then set nozzle size to .5mm so it's clear what you are asking Cura to do for you.

    3) Isolator - this is most common if you've printed extra hot (>240C) for a few hours or regular temps (220C) for 500 hours.  It warps.  It's the white part touching the heater block.  Test it by removing it and passing filament though it by hand.  Also if you notice parts of it are very soft then it's too old and needs replacing.

    4) Curved filament at end of spool - if you are past half way on spool, try a fresh spool as a test.

    5) curved angle feeding into feeder - put the filament on the floor -makes a MASSIVE difference.

    6) Head too tight?  Bizarrely MANY people loosen the 4 screws on the head by just a bit maybe 1/2 mm and suddenly they can print just fine!  Has to do with pressure on the white teflon isolator.

    5b) Bowden pushing too hard - for the same reason you don't want the bowden pushing too hard on the isolator.

    5c) Spring pushing too hard.  Although you want a gap you want as small as possible a gap between teflon isolator and steel isolator nut such that the spring is compressed as little as possible.

    7) clogged nozzle - the number one problem of course - even if it seems clear.  There can be build up on the inside of the nozzle that only burning with a flame can turn to ash and remove.  Sometimes a grain of sand gets in there but that's more obvious (it just won't print).  Atomic method (cold pull) helps but occasionally you need to remove the entire heater block/nozzle assembly and use flame.  Or soak it in acetone overnight (after removing 90% of the material with cold pull).

    8) Temp Sensor bad - even the good ones vary by +/- 5C and bad ones can be any amount off - they usually read high and a working sensor can fail high slowly over time.  Meaning the sensor thinks you are at 220C but actually you are at 170C.  At 170C the plastic is so viscous it can barely get out of the nozzle.  You can verify your temp sensor using this simple video at youtube - on you tube search for this: mrZbX-SfftU

    9) feeder spring issues - too tight, too loose

    10) Other feeder issues, one of the nuts holding machine together often interferes with the feeder motor tilting it enough so that it still works but not very well.  Other things that tilt the feeder motor, sleeve misaligned so it doesn't get a good grip.  Gunk clogging the mechanism in there.

    11) Filament diameter too big - 3mm is too much.  3mm filament is usually 2.85mm nominal or sometimes 2.9mm +/- .05.  But some manufacturers (especially in china) make true 3.0mm filament with a tolerance of .1mm which is useless in an Ultimaker.  It will print for a few meters and then clog so tight in the bowden you will have to remove the bowden from both ends to get the filament out.  Throw that filament in the trash!  It will save you weeks of pain

    11b) Something wedged in with the filament.  I was setting up 5 printers at once and ran filament change on all of them.  One was slowly moving the filament through the tube and was almost to the head when I pushed the button and it sped up and ground the filament badly.  I didn't think it was a problem and went ahead and printed something but there was a ground up spot followed by a flap of filament that  got jammed in the bowden tube.  Having the "plus" upgrade or using the IRobertI feeder helps you feel this with your hand by sliding the filament through the bowden a bit to see if it is stuck.

    12) Hot weather.  If air is above 30C or even possibly 25C, the air temperature combined with the extruder temperature can soften the filament inside the feeder such that it is getting squeezed flat as it passes through the feeder - this is obvious as you can see the problem in the bowden.  The fix is to add a desk fan blowing on the back of the printer.  Not an issue on the UM2 "plus" series.

    13) Crimped bowden.  At least one person had an issue where the bowden was crimped a bit too much at the feeder and although the printer worked fine when new it eventually got worse and had underextrusion on random layers.  it's easy to pull the bowden out of the feeder end and examine it.

    14) Small nozzle.  Rumor has it some of the .4mm nozzles are closer to .35mm.  Not sure if this is actually true.  I'm a bit skeptical but try a .6mm nozzle maybe.

     

    Thanks for the ideas I've checked these already, I am very thorough when it comes to troubleshooting (its been my life for the past 14 years). I've been speaking with UM support for a while and they have been very helpful. We think there is a problem with the feeder design itself, I'm going to be swapping in my old feeder and if it works fine then the new design is the problem. If I still have a problem then its in the head unit. everything has been changed/swapped/adjusted/inspected/etc... that can be thought of.

    My printer started doing this about 8hrs after upgrading, and when I got it back they printed parts for about 5-6 hours(beautiful!) and I did one hour and it started failing again. Seems a bit odd to me.

    Upgraded my UM2 with plus kit now under extrusion

    in UltiMaker 3D printers

    Posted

    just got mine back and sent me the parts to prove it worked. They changed out the feeder and said once they changed that it was working so yay for me!

    Started printing a part great for the first hour then same issue.......changed to the new PLA that they sent me as well after doing a very good cleaning on the nozzle......still getting MAJOR under extrusion.........

    they left their SD card in it so I tried printing the extrusion test and got the same thing (small dots connected by strings)

    how did they get perfect prints and I'm getting fails? now this sounds like a user error but I'm using the same settings as they did and the same print.......nothing has changed

    Upgraded my UM2 with plus kit now under extrusion

    in UltiMaker 3D printers

    Posted

    I think I have sorted my problem. I had tried cleaning the nozzle out a couple of times using atomic pulls with no luck. I usually only print in black material, be it carbon or PLA, so I didn't notice that the material hand't completely come out of the nozzle. I had some red to print for a change and that gave to the answer. After changing the filament I was still getting black material coming out of the nozzle for a good 5-10mins. So I spent around an hour purging the nozzle and doing atomic pulls until it finally came out clean. I then printed a test part with normal settings (i.e. same as the UM2) and its printed perfectly again. Normally atomic pulls clean the nozzle in 2-3 rotations, but it must have take about 20, if not more, to get this one sorted. Never had it that bad before.

    BR

    Rich

     

    lucky you rich! yeah I have been using black a lot as well and I always do my atomic clean with an opposite colour as what I have been using and my white came out pure white. hopefully they can sort mine out asap!

    Upgraded my UM2 with plus kit now under extrusion

    in UltiMaker 3D printers

    Posted

    Ok lets take a step back. Did you do the test @gr5 described in his first reaction? Lets first determine (if it's hardware)  if it's the feeder or the hot-end  causing issues. If I had to bet I would guess the hot-end but do the test gr5 describes.

    Another thing I would do, and takes only a few minutes is reinstall the firmware.

    Do a factory reset first, then install using cura 15.04.5. Make sure you have the correct printer selected.

    I'm using the latest @tinkergnome again since yesterday, version  16.03.1 , works great for me.

    https://github.com/TinkerGnome/Ultimaker2Marlin/releases

    And to prove my results after the upgrade are good (though printed a little to hot....)

    20160410_142316.thumb.jpg.edee9ae4282440210942799156e5efac.jpg

    20160410_142344.thumb.jpg.ece72887903caac41d46af3fc9328947.jpg

    20160410_142410.thumb.jpg.24c28989f5f28bebbf2e1b476c45f7e5.jpg

    20160410_145359.thumb.jpg.bb16c8a3dbd6086c49e3bedbe98a2772.jpg

    UM2+ upgrade, 210c, bed60c, cura 15.04.5, speed 30, fan full on at 2.5mm, 0.1 layer, labern fanholder.

    and here;

    https://ultimaker.com/en/community/6436-a-tougher-extrusion-test-o?page=1&sort=#reply-143035

     

    you might have got a good one......like Komodo, I have tried every possible way! re-installing, factory reset, swapping out the old PTFE set up, changing temps, changing feeder pressure, changing Bowden tubes, ( I tried swapping the heater blocks but when I went to remove my old one the heat sensor wire broke inside of it so made me a bit upset), opened the feeder to inspect, I don't feel like typing it all down but I've done it all and it has frustrated me beyond belief! I had 3 good prints come off my printer after the upgrade (6 hours of printing)..............after that it was nothing but fails.

    but good on you for having a working printer! lol

    I'm two weeks behind on my work and soon to be three!

    Upgraded my UM2 with plus kit now under extrusion

    in UltiMaker 3D printers

    Posted

    well there isn't a problem with the PTFE (its got as new name) I did a test and set the heat to zero and used the feeder motor and it pushed the filament through the heater block with ou the nozzle on just fine. but once you put a blockage on the front the feeder motor starts skipping right away. I've messed with the pressure settings and no matter what I do it does the same thing. (I did do the oil trick and nothing helped)

    even when I swapped it back to the old system with the PTFE and spring it still did it.....its a feeder problem!

    Upgraded my UM2 with plus kit now under extrusion

    in UltiMaker 3D printers

    Posted

    yeah this is a long story! and it isn't fixed yet! ive taken everything off and on and opened and inspected and cant seem to find a fault! even going back to PLA I cant print it with out under extrusion. I'm wishing I didn't upgrade........next step is to take the new feeder off and put the old one back on.......if this works then this whole thing was pointless.......

    (still love my UM2 just annoyed!)

    been getting help from UM support! great guys!

    Upgraded my UM2 with plus kit now under extrusion

    in UltiMaker 3D printers

    Posted

    Hello community, I've been printing for a while but first time posting! Normally I can figure stuff out on my own or find it on the interwebs but this one I cant seem to find since its a new kit.

    I installed the upgrade kit the other day and I was super excited as I had some projects that would benefit from this. I made a few test prints in PLA and was super happy with the quality. I noticed I had some under extrusion on a long print and thought maybe this was an accident as I had the filament routed around the post on the back. So I just moved forward.

    Next I "tried" printing with ninjaflex and couldn't even get a quarter of the layer printed before it just stop flowing......tried all sorts of stuff oiled the tube, increased the flow to 200%,increased the temperature of the nozzle, loosened feeder tension........no luck

    Then said screw it I will print my alloy 910........yeah major under extrusion issues as well.........messed with the feeder tension, done a cleaning of the nozzle but always shows up clean........so im at a loss! Atm I have a really nice looking paperweight and kind of upset I messed with something that wasnt broken! Haha

    Any help I will take thanks!

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