latreides

The feeder is clean, the nozzle is not clogged, and the coupler is new. I am at a loss for ideas to try and trouble shoot it, so replacing the feeder (especially one with two feeding gears) seems like the next logical step in my troubleshooting. I have only found this feeder as a replacement though, so I was wondering if anyone has experience with it, or know of any better aftermarket replacements. Something is wrong with my UM2+ and I have ran out of ideas. I don't want this topic to turn into a duplicate of my original topic (troubleshooting my UM2+ issue) If you care to weigh in on that topic anymore (always appreciated) its here: https://ultimaker.com/en/community/50348-extrusion-woes

My (couple month old) UM2+ has recently started to have issues. The feed is consistently inconsistent and after 8-12 hours, it just stops feeding. I am not sure what is causing this, and cannot seem to narrow it down to any specific part. The most obvious parts would be the feeder and the extruder. The feeder being the cheaper (and easier to replace) component, I tried to browse for printable replacements. Unfortunately there were only replacements for the UM2 to upgrade to the UM2+, but none for the UM2+ I did find a third party feeder, and at first glance it looks pretty good. It has two separate gears that feed the filament, and is much less noisy (it seems, from the video) than my original UM2+ feeder. Has anyone used this feeder? Are there other 3rd party feeders that you would recommend more? https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/3D-Printer-Parts-Ultimaker-2-UM2-Extruder-For-1-75-3-00mm-Supply-Filament-System/2334209_32709735648.html

I have not checked the fan yet, but I don't have the fans on during the first layer so I am not sure what difference this would make. So the "thunk" went away when I cut the Bowden tube flat. I have changed filaments half a dozen times since then and haven't encountered it again. With the Bowden tube connected I have let a couple hundred mm of filament flow through and it all looks good. The original issue persists. The oil seemed to help some (the hills/valleys are less extreme), and when I change the first layer thickness to 200% it hides it a lot better, but it doesn't fix the problem. When I bought my UM2+ a couple months ago, it worked perfectly. Now I cannot reliably print anything with a large flat surface or anything that takes more than 8-12 hours to print. With the oil and 200% 'trick' I am OK with the results (they are not great, but usable), however after 8-12 hours of printing, it will stop extruding. I first guess is the feeder is slipping. There doesn't seem to be a major clog. I can perform a 'change filament' operation, cut the filament back before the part the wheel ground up, and insert it back into the feeder and it has no issue extruding. The tension on the feeder is in the middle, or slightly lower (I have tried both), and I am using PLA. I see that there is a UM2 feeder replacement, but that seems to be only for UM2 not UM2+, is there a recommended feeder replacement for the UM2+?

I took the extruder apart again and I noticed that the Bowden tube was not cut flat. It was at an slight angle. My working theory is that the 'tip' of the angled part of the Bowden tube was making contact with the coupler. The 'tip' was in just the right place for it to guide the filament into the coupler until I replaced the coupler and thus removed the tube and reinserted it. At this point the 'tip' was at some other location, leaving a gap between the Bowden tube and the coupler where the filament made contact with the Bowden tube. It is this gap that the filament is catching on. I have cut the end of the Bowden tube to be flat, and have inserted filament into the machine multiple times without it catching. I am not sure if this will solve my original issue, but I am hopeful.

An update to this, and a question. Oiling helps a lot, but it doesn't make the problem go away entirely. In fact I have started to notice a new problem (or an old problem getting worse) which (may) be the source of the original problem. The filament seems to be catching on something right at the end. I thought that it was getting friction stuck in the Bowden tube, but that doesn't seem to be the whole situation. In the extruder, somewhere, the filament is getting stuck until there is enough force from the feeder, at which time I hear a loud "thunk" as the filament slips off of whatever it was stuck on and starts feeding. I have very recently (roughly around the time the problem started, though its hard to tell) replaced the coupler. I have taken the extruder apart a dozen times, and everything looks fine, everything goes together smoothly, but it makes me wonder if there is something I might have overlooked. When putting on the coupler (or reassembling the extruder), is there anything I could have done wrong that would cause the filament to snag on something?

It appears to print nicely after the first layer. Its difficult to tell because its mostly infill. It makes for a very rough, ugly bottom. Its not really an acceptable solution. I am relatively certain that this is not its cause. If this were the case then printing a small part would have even worse issues (and they would likely persist past the initial layer). Its actually the opposite. Smaller parts print perfectly, first layer and all. I recently replaced the coupler with a new one from 3d solex. I am not sure what the coupler does, or how it could cause this issue, but the one I have is pretty new. It looks perfect when I disassemble the extruder. This is actually what it sounds like. My working theory is that the smaller parts I print have more retractions so the filament is moving back and forth more often, where the larger parts print in longer runs with no retraction, giving it more time to "stick" to the bowden tube. While its doing this, its slowly running out of filament (I actually have seen some thinner than normal sections that give more evidence for this), and then the push when the pressure is enough to overcome its friction is responsible for the flood of filament. I plan to try and oil the bowden tube to try and get it to slide better and see if this solves the problem. I have read that some people have had success with this on other printers. I will try a large amount of skirts if this doesnt produce better results.

I tried printing some flex recently and it didn't go very well. I cleaned out the nozzle and the feeder to make sure that there wasn't any remaining flex debris before I went back to my normal printing routine. I have not been able to make a successful print since. The biggest issue seems to be that after I complete a print, the next time I try and print, it has feeding issues. It won't feed at all until I change material (to the same material), and then it "works". By works I mean that it will print, but the first layer is almost always garbage. I get what appears to be bursts of over extrusion. The picture shows the dark lines/ridges where its extruding about 2x as much filament and then it starts printing the normal amount. This happens on a regular, repeatable basis (about the same gap between over extrusions). I have tried printing this nearly two dozen times and it always has the same result. I tried with Cura 2.6 and Simplify3D, these didn't change anything. I tried with different materials, different temperatures, and different tension settings, these didn't change anything. I know its not the model, because it will (sometimes) print it just fine. The rest of the print (after the first layer) appears to go well; although it might be difficult to see if this pattern is happening after the solid layers. I have taken the feeder apart multiple times to see if anything was stuck or clogged and it seems ok. I have also taken the nozzle off and made sure it (and the parts it connects to) are completely free of filament. This hasn't changed anything. Does anyone have any ideas on what could be happening?

Is there a way to do it though? I bought a couple of kgs of flexible filament in hopes that I could get it to print, but I haven't even gotten it to extrude yet. If someone has had success with MakerFlex (or similar, like NinjaFlex) I would be very interested in hearing how they did it. I found a couple of topics on these forums but they are for larger mods than I am willing to make.

No, but I did remove the material and put in some normal PLA and printed something after all of this trial and error with the flexible. So I am fairly certain that there isn't a clog.

Hello Ultimaker community! I have been trying to print with a flexible filament (MakerFlex) but I cannot get it to feed in my UM2+. The change material process will feed the filament up to the nozzle, but it will not ever extrude any filament. I can place my fingers on the filament as its going into the feeder, and I can feel vertical movement, but nothing comes out of the nozzle. Has anyone tried to print with this material, or similar (like NinjaFlex) with the UM2+? Is there any tricks to get it to feed? I have tried adjusting the tension (in both directions) an arbitrary amount, without any success.

Yes, I make a clean cut. I have tried cutting it flat and at an angle. I also straighten the filament out as much possible. It is pretty clear that if its not going in at an exact angle (which I have yet to determine) that it just gets wedged behind something. If I rotate the printer I have less trouble. Is there something I can print that will guide it within the feeder? Thanks for the heads up.

So while not exactly the same sound (this one occurs at all times, not just during retraction) I am having some serious sound issues with the feeder. I have made an audio recording of it, but this forum doesn't allow attachments. Its just a loud grinding/clicking noise, at all times. It went for about 6 hours, and then stopped, and then for a couple minutes, and then stopped. Its still printing great, and it doesn't look like the feeder is chewing up the filament, but the noise is really bad. I am going to take the feeder apart (maybe there is something stuck in there?) is there anything I need to worry about when doing this? As an aside, its very very difficult to feed filament into the feeder. It has been since day one. 9 times out of 10 the filament gets caught on something when I try and push it in, so I have to pull it out, and try and feed it in again, over and over until eventually I get it. I know there is a solution to make the lever easier to pull (a little robot print) but is there a solution to make putting filament in the feeder easier?

I plan to, however my UM2+ has been printing almost non-stop since I bought it, so I don't have much time for experimenting with a different version at this time. Once I get a little down time again I will try 2.4 and see if I get different results.

I have not resolved this problem yet, nor have I had the time to experiment in the last week (I have been printing almost non-stop). Yes, I only print with PLA. It did this out of the box, and still did this after I did a firmware 'upgrade' (pretty sure that Cura just flashed the version that was already on the printer, since the version info in the printer didn't change).

This is exactly the situation that I fear happening. As the demand for 1.75 mm grows and the 2.85 demand mostly stagnates, we are going to see this happen more often. I wish more printers would be released at 2.85 mm, but they all seem to be following the 1.75 mm trend. There are mods out there to get 1.75 mm on the UM2+, so its not a doomsday situation if 2.85 were to be discontinued by most manufacturers, its just an inconvenient unknown that would be helped out a lot by an official solution.

My printer is stock, the firmware has been updated by Cura 2.5 to the latest (which it already had on it as far as I can tell). Just to be thorough I also tried with the Ultimaker brand filament. It doesn't change anything, it still produces the same results with Cura. (Ultimaker brand w/Cura) (Ultimaker brand w/S3D) These are quick examples after just a minute or so. By the time it gets a dozen layers on, the cumulative effect is much worse. This is default settings, using Cura 2.5 on a stock Ultimaker 2+ with Ultimaker brand filament.

I am using Cura 2.5. I was just reading that by default Cura (might?) output the Ultimaker flavor of gcode, rather than the standard gcode. I wonder if changing this setting will have any impact on the print? Its definitly one major difference between Cura and S3D.

I had started to gather data on this in my original post, but stopped because it seemed irrelevant. I use the same materials from the same brands, printing at the same temperatures, with the same thicknesses, at the same speeds, the same layer height, and the same retraction settings, etc..., in S3D and get perfect results every time (really the UM2+ is amazing ~200 hours printing since I got it a couple weeks ago, and its never once messed up a part (except the Cura issue)). I have gotten Cura to produce a good print, once. Same materials, same settings, same everything as above. It was a perfect print. Made even better by the fact that Cura made circular supports! It had some small circle shaped holes in the bottom and Cura filled those with supports that made sense where S3D tried to fit rectangle/linear supports in there (and there is little to no room for that). This is one of the reasons I keep trying Cura even though S3D works great for me in all other aspects.

Everything I try and print with Cura, with default settings for the UM2+, turns out like garbage. Its mostly what appears to be a stringing/oozing issue, but I would think that the default settings would at least get me close. I tried adjusting temperature and the retraction settings (including combing), but I got nowhere. Here is an example, though this is pretty minor compared to some of the prints. When I load the same models up in Simplify 3d, default UM2+ settings (which, look pretty close to the Cura settings for the most part), it prints perfectly. Any idea what could be wrong?

For me its not about the quality or use cases of 1.75 vs 2.85, its simply about future availability. It is also quite a pain that of all my friends and coworkers with 3d printers (there are quite a few of them, growing every day) not a single one of them has a 2.85 printer, so I am over here on my own little island. Oh they need a little bit of orange for a project? I have orange...oh wait, they can't use it (this actually came up today!). Oh they got this new filament, I want to try it...oh wait, I can't use it. I do not like making modifications, but I am no stranger to it, and willing to put in the effort. When I speak of quality I speak of the components, of the mod itself. Does it reduce the life span of the other parts? Will I have to replace parts on the mod more often than the original? Are the parts on the mod the same quality as the original? Will it conflict with other mods (like the Dual Extrusion) one? Small one off mods, like "replace this rod that is known to wear out with this super durable rod and never have to worry about it again" are great. I love this kind of thing. But "replace this official extruder/hotend that has quality components in it, with one that is of unknown quality and may cause other issues" are less likely to be viable for me.

This issue tends to show up for me with a squeaking noise as the filament rubs against the feeder in an odd manner. I have seen some printed solutions that guide the filament better, I may try one of those. I plan on it, the next time I do a z-hop print

Updating the firmware cost them time and effort, and is provided to the end users for free. Selling an upgrade kit (much like the + upgrade kits) is a new product that can make them even more money on an existing product. I don't think numbers from those manufacturers would be useful. They would most definitly be skewed to show a much larger 2.85 demand than there is (generally). These filaments are much more expensive than their competitors at about 2 to 3 times the cost. Most of the 2.85 printers are in the high end categories ($2000-$5000) which means that most of the people with 2.85 printers have more money to spend on 3d printing, and are more likely to buy from the more "premium" brands. Unfortunately, numbers from the other side (less expensive brands) will fall victim to the same bias, just the other direction. There is to big of a price gap between the different manufactures for any data to be useable. I have tried to make my point clear about mods, and why this isn't as viable as a solution as its made out to be. 1. What is the percentage of UM2+ users that have this mod? Single digit or less I would imagine. I would be surprised if its greater than 1%. This means that I have almost no recourse in troubleshooting. Trying to figure out why my UM2+ is doing this or that, well it might be because of the mod, or it might not. I would have added a very big unknown to the equation. 2. There is very little information about this mod (or the other similar mods). What is the quality? How long do the parts last? What drawbacks or issues have been encountered? A few peoples anecdotal experiences are hardly the type of multiple independent third party reviews that inspire confidence in a product. I read dozens of reviews, watched dozens more, and browsed multiple forums before I decided that the UM2+ was the kind of machine I was looking for. These mods are relatively unknown, and therefor not really a viable solution unless there is no other choice. An official solution would inspire more confidence in the quality, would likely be reviewed by many of the review sites/channels, and possibly even convince a larger percentage to adopt it, potentially eliminating (or at least reducing) the impact from the first point.

Not sure where the feeder tension is set. At a guess, if its the little switch above the feeder lever, its in the center. PLA, Ultimaker and MakerGeek brands, both do it.

Agreed. So what I am doing is slicing the files on the computer, loading the G-Code onto the SD card. Inserting the SD card into the printer, then using PrintRun to tell the Printer to read the SD card... It seems like a convoluted way of doing things, but it solves the unreliability of printing via USB. Get a Raspberry Pi 3, install OctoPrint, AstroPrint, or Formide on it, and then plug it into your printer. You will have a web interface to drag and drop gcode files (to upload them to the RPi3) or to print files that are already on the RPi3. They also allow you to monitor and control the printer from the web interface. As long as you are not using the RPi3 for anything else at the same time, it should be a reliable way to print. I have been doing this for months on different printers, and it works great. I think the new Cura 2.6 beta even has the ability to save directly to your OctoPrint box.

Personally I am not worried so much about parts that I can replace with generic after market parts (for example the extruder mount can be 3d printed and generic fans can be plugged in) What I am curious about most is parts that have to be machined/manufactured, specifically for the UM (or its knock offs). These are parts that I would like to keep at least a single backup in supply, just in case. Remember the just in case doesn't have to mean Ultimaker goes out of business, in fact, the opposite could be true. If they get bought out by some other major company, and then get refocused on, say, commercial 3d printers, and the home user/enthusiast are no longer viable use cases. MakerBot just went through a transition much like this (no longer focusing on the enthusiast, only the commercial and education sector).