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SandervG

We made it, the New Cura

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Posted (edited) · We made it, the New Cura

Remember that feedback is like an iceberg,... what you see here on the forums is only the tip.

The same is also said of audio design in games. If someone finds it good they don't notice it, but if they find it bad, all hell breaks loose. I've used cura back in the day where the auto slicing wasn't an option yet (you had to press the slice button every time), which was fairly annoying. I think the current problem with the auto slicing is that the message pops up and pops down again, which is quite distracting.

For all the developers shouting that they want this feature, I've yet to see a pull request. We're considering adding an energy saving mode which disables auto slicing, but due to the feature freeze we're in at the moment, it won't be added until the 16.01 release.

I don't think this has anything to do with bravery so i don't quite understand what that has anything to do with this discussion.

Edited by SandervG
mind your language please

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

Random questions I think may fit best here: Are you guys (Ultimaker Head Cheese's) planning on updating the Ultimaker 2 Dual Firmware when the updates come along for the regular firmware?

I'm not aware of such plans.

 

but have you considered making a more user-friendly way (gui based)to edit the firmware with options for adding new and or different parts (hardware).

Yeah we did. But it's a lot of work to get right. We're already over our ears in work with everything, so something like this won't get a high priority. There are marlin firmware builders out there that work pretty good.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

I don't think this has anything to do with bravery so i don't quite understand what that has anything to do with this discussion.

Some of this may be lost in translation, as he is advising to give users what they want even if you do not find it useful :) I'd value his feedback given his software development background.

There seems to be a lot of resistance to the ideas suggested from the developers. I don't think that is your intention, but the way some of the replies come across, it reads that way.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

I might sometimes come across somewhat jaded with regards to adding new features. This has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of people mistake open source for "If I want a feature, you must make it". It's a lot less than it used to be, but the 20th time someone does this, you tend to get a bit blunt in your responses (Note that it's not an excuse, its a reason. You're right to notify me, or any of us, if this happens).

We're not against adding features suggested by the community (have a look at the github, we've included a lot of features that were suggested by you guys), but we like to see better arguments than "But my work flow requires this" or "I think this is nice". I want to know -why- you think this is nice or why a certain workflow would be better (or even better; state a problem and spar with us on how to improve this instead of pushing a single 'solution').

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

(or even better; state a problem and spar with us on how to improve this instead of pushing a single 'solution').

 

You might even get invited over for lunch in Geldermalsen 8)

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

We're not against adding features suggested by the community (have a look at the github, we've included a lot of features that were suggested by you guys), but we like to see better arguments than "But my work flow requires this" or "I think this is nice". I want to know -why- you think this is nice or why a certain workflow would be better (or even better; state a problem and spar with us on how to improve this instead of pushing a single 'solution').

 

I get this at work all the time. I have tried the "sparing" method you described but us Americans get easily offend when you don't absolutely love their feedback. haha. So I usually say "I value your suggestion and will look into it." You're awful brave for using the open-discourse-suggestion business model and you guys are awesome for perusing it.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

You know what... This entire discussion is ridiculous. People want to be able to click a button to update the slicing manually and hate that it seems to want to do this when it thinks it should... There are dozens of those people, so its not some lone gunman with an idea on how things should work.

Don't drag in those principle arguments. The open source thing where people expect more than they should get because it's open source. The fact that people whine and don't know anything but just "need this for their workflow". The fact that it will hide bugs that you need reported. That you guys know better than people that have been in de software business for over 20 years. Yadiya.

Either do it or don't (all the time you've spent arguing about it it could've been implemented a 100 times over), but just stop about it already. It's so f*ing annoying, all this. The only thing you're doing here is treating your customers like "stupid kids" (which they are most definitely not). So whatever. I'm no longer following this topic because I've had it. There's my thought about it.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

I think UM had good points why it wasn't implemented, most of the people who didn't like it was because there were bugs in their system. If the slice button was implemented then these bugs wouldn't be found.

Also you can still keep changing stuff even if had started slicing as it would just start over. Its not like you have to wait every time.

I can just picture people getting the button then getting pissed of because they forgot to press it and printed with a previous slice that didn't contain all the new settings.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

Given the fact that the staff is not particularly large, the amount of work and difficulties of translating the old functionality to the new engine and the fact that getting/remembering programming skills takes considerable time, it is strange to expect from the new version, at least, stability. If I understood correctly, that is exactly what has been made "open beta" - in order to help developers to find the maximum number (sic!) critical errors. minor bugs and new features can be safely implemented in later releases. What the developers not did, and why half of the comments to the post looks a bit (IMHO) of the indictment - they not published a plan of active tasks on the sprint to 15.10. If people could see the priorities now facing developers (github functionality inexperienced person may appear extremely uninformative), the six-page discussion of entering into the assembly of a (OMG!) single button could not be.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura
I can just picture people getting the button then getting pissed of because they forgot to press it and printed with a previous slice that didn't contain all the new settings.

 

That problem could easily be avoided by simply bringing up a dialog box (which you can choose to disable if you want from the menu so that dialog doesnt get irritating itself) that says do you want to perform a final slice? (yes/no) before you print or something like that, as soon as you press the print button. Which would make the most sense to me.

The auto slice is annoying, whatever the benefits. Its a time waster, like it or not, and lets face it no-one like wasting time, period.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

 

I can just picture people getting the button then getting pissed of because they forgot to press it and printed with a previous slice that didn't contain all the new settings.

 

That problem could easily be avoided by simply bringing up a dialog box (which you can choose to disable if you want from the menu so that dialog doesnt get irritating itself) that says do you want to perform a final slice? (yes/no) before you print or something like that, as soon as you press the print button. Which would make the most sense to me.

The auto slice is annoying, whatever the benefits. Its a time waster, like it or not, and lets face it no-one like wasting time, period.

 

I don't see how its a time waster. I only wait for it once i have finished changing all my settings, But you would still have to wait it you manually pressed it anyway.

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Posted (edited) · We made it, the New Cura

Yes i know, but if you scale anything, you wait, if you import an extra object, you wait, if you scale that object you wait, if you change a setting, you wait, you get the drift. I often print many parts as i make my stuff modular, so i just cram on as much as i can fit on the plate, but this means waiting each and every time. So if i import ten files, thats ten waits i'm doing. It IS irritating and I really cant see anyone complaining if you removed it, as opposed to people complaining insanely if you had introduced it to it previously no being there, which should speak for itself.

I know for simple low poly stuff that is not too irritating, but as soon as you start getting higher poly, its almost unbearable. Defo not something you want to be doing if you are in a rush. Sometimes i wonder if it has crashed but know it hasnt as its fairly stable (i use cura 15.02.01).

And fair enough about the developers thing, but I really cant see how I personally benefit from having to waiting every time for it to slice. Let the developers use auto slice to find the problems, and let everyone else have a version without. Or at least offer a version without, that way its the users choice, and they cant blame anyone for anything slicer related as THEY have chosen to use that version. Whats wrong with that?

Edited by Guest

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

I can't really see the problem, you just ignore the fact that the auto slicing is going on and go about your work of changing settings, adding things etc.. There is no need to wait for anything.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

it is a great feature for most of the prints.....but not all... (high poly, really annoying!)

it would be SO NICE to have a tick box, to temporarily prevent it from auto slicing.

Everybody happy!!!

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Posted (edited) · We made it, the New Cura

I can't really see the problem, you just ignore the fact that the auto slicing is going on and go about your work of changing settings, adding things etc.. There is no need to wait for anything.

 

With high poly stuff the entire computer freezes while it is doing its computation, so you cannot simply carry on going about your business.... hence the EXTREME frustration, as there is also a massive delay so you think you've typed in a setting only to find you've pressed delete too many times and have to wait all over again to type in the value you initially wanted. If you dont do high poly stuff or really detailed models i guess you wont notice. But if you do then its torture, and having a tick box for autoslice would be a godsend.

Edited by Guest

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Posted (edited) · We made it, the New Cura

I don't have the issue with a 20 MB stl model. There I can simply ignore the slicing process and change the camera / settings whatever. This pc only has those shitty onboard intel graphic cards aswell, so thats not the issue either.

20 mb of data (a little over 1.3 million polygons!) doesn't have this effect, so i'm pretty sure its another issue. An issue that I want to fix, not hide behind a checkbox.

**edit** Even with 80 mb of data (so about 5 million polygons) I was still able to change settings without any issues. The view did start to slow down a bit, but this also happened when the slicing was disabled. I could not find a significant decrease in performance.

Edited by Guest

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

 

I can't really see the problem, you just ignore the fact that the auto slicing is going on and go about your work of changing settings, adding things etc.. There is no need to wait for anything.

 

With high poly stuff the entire computer freezes while it is doing its computation, so you cannot simply carry on going about your business.... hence the EXTREME frustration, as there is also a massive delay so you think you've typed in a setting only to find you've pressed delete too many times and have to wait all over again to type in the value you initially wanted. If you dont do high poly stuff or really detailed models i guess you wont notice. But if you do then its torture, and having a tick box for autoslice would be a godsend.

 

Here it is difficult to disagree. On a computer with 4 gigabytes of memory a high-poly model can be calculated up to an hour (the maximum that I had). Perhaps the problem here is that, judging by the perfomance log, the program uses only CPU resources, and does not employ the power, which can provide video card (as, for example, makes a family of autodesk products).

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Posted (edited) · We made it, the New Cura

@nallath Try a 100MB file in 0.06, and you'll change your mind. Im runnin on a fairly high end imac. but its also slow on my 12core PC rig at home.

...And, if you could fix it, and I could hide behind a check box in the meantime, I would be grateful as well as a lot of others out there.

High end users who need this quality and currently have to wait minutes (or longer as i hear in the above post) per change would seriously appreciate an auto-slice button believe me. it appears that all the arguments to keep auto slicing are developer arguments, hence completely irrelevant for end users.

Edited by Guest

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Posted (edited) · We made it, the New Cura

I just loaded a 1116mb file (7 mil verts) and I get a bunch of lag when sending the model to the slice engine. I'll have a look into that.

It seems the new cura crashes when the object is too large (eg; it even refuses to send the message to the engine as the message is too big). This is not handled properly which blocks everything.

Edited by Guest

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

The old cura handles all models no matter the size for me within reason. But i dont need to go too much above 1 million polys before it starts choking. The new cura is simple a no go on this front, period. It also greatly depends on the complexity and size of the model. simply importing a cube with 7 million verts will not strain cura as much as a highly detailed sculpt. with flat detailed areas as well as vertical detail, and support material.

Surely in the meantime a checkbox version for us artists would be less hassle than messing about trying to make the perfect code which will take a lot of effort, and would only take yet more time?

just make one button?

I find the reluctance to do this quite puzzling?

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

I don't have the issue with a 20 MB stl model. There I can simply ignore the slicing process and change the camera / settings whatever. This pc only has those shitty onboard intel graphic cards aswell, so thats not the issue either.

20 mb of data (a little over 1.3 million polygons!) doesn't have this effect, so i'm pretty sure its another issue. An issue that I want to fix, not hide behind a checkbox.

**edit** Even with 80 mb of data (so about 5 million polygons) I was still able to change settings without any issues. The view did start to slow down a bit, but this also happened when the slicing was disabled. I could not find a significant decrease in performance.

 

Supporting Arguement:

Machine Del xps

i7 4770

32 gb ram

2x TitanX

Generated a model with 5 million poly count

could change settings easily while adding models

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

Are you including scaling in your " change settings " test? Scaling is the laggyiest adjustment for me.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

Are you including scaling in your " change settings " test? Scaling is the laggyiest adjustment for me.

 

I did try scaling it didn't seem to have much more effect than usual

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

The only time i have had to wait was when it had to do extensive stitching. That was annoying but was due to a bad model. Which i fixed then I didn't need to wait.

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Posted · We made it, the New Cura

Scaling is laggy with or without the slicing. The slicing is done in a separate thread, but all the gui stuff is done on a single core (due to python reasons)

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