What's the best distance between nozzle and bed when leveling?

[Lofrank 1]

Hi all

What's the best distance between nozzle and bed when leveling? 0.1mm?

It (the leveling guide) just says that put a paper and twist the screw until feel a bit tight.

I'm doubting whether need to make more tight if I want to print with 0.02mm layer resolution than 0.1mm layer resolution.

Thanks.

[xeno 108]

Usually the paper thickness is good, but it all depends on what the first layer height you have set in Cura

I started to use these, and they work perfectly to set a accurate height.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Guest

[Labern 775]

You only want to feel light pressure on the paper when your not holding the adjusting screw or touching the plate.

the front of the plate can deflect easily and a lot more then the back. so if the pressure on the paper is set to high at the back then the front might have to deflect to get the same amount of pressure, resulting in a inconsistent height from front and back.

If that makes sense.

I just use a bit of paper as suggested and adjust the initial layer height as needed.

@Gr5 has a different method all together

[Lofrank 1]

@xeno

Do you mean that if I want to print first layer with 0.6mm, then I need to adjust the distance to 0.6mm; if I want to print first layer with 0.3mm, then the distance should be 0.3mm?

Thanks.

[Lofrank 1]

@labern

So you use the same leveling no matter what resolution to print first layer?

[xisle 34]

I use the same leveling regardless of first layer thickness. I level my bed using feeler gauges like @xeno does. I lower the bed from home position to 0.1mm using the UltiController, then match nozzle height to 0.1mm feeler gauge. Leveling from home position using a sheet of paper increases the first layer height by the thickness of said sheet of paper, so I don't use that method.

After an occasional re-level, I mostly use my eye to make minor adjustments during the first layer, often while the brim is printing.

[Lofrank 1]

I lower the bed from home position to 0.1mm using the UltiController

 

Is it possible to do this without UltiControler?

I don't know how to adjust the bed when it's printing.

Thanks.

[xisle 34]

Is it possible to do this without UltiControler?

 

I have a UMO. I assume you have a similar "move axis" option in the UM2 menu on the printer.

 

I don't know how to adjust the bed when it's printing.

 

I just turn the screws slightly (knobs in your case) and remove pressure from the screw driver between adjustments.

[Lofrank 1]

Thanks @xisle

I think it's difficult for me to adjust the screw when printing, hard to control by eye...

I'm going to buy a feeler gauges for better leveling.

[cloakfiend 996]

I'l second that method, and to tell the truth i think quite a lot of people level by eye during the brim or outlining stage. It saves a lot of time messing around with the calibrating and also saves re-levelling later as you generally are correcting it every once in a while by adjusting the screws on the fly. Its worth getting the hang of it and then you'll do it all the time.

If you seethe line getting too thin turn the screw slightly anticlockwise and if its too dark (i.e. further from the glass then turn it clockwise. Simple....might be the other way round though, lol, i haven't done it in ages.

That gauge thing seems like total overkill to a non-existant issue? I mean who cares what the first layer looks like? as long as the rest are perfect? unless am i missing something? I print in 0.06, 0.1, and 0.2 and treat each print exactly the same. I get no issues, and perfect layer height every time. What benefit does this gauge thing bring other than making the first layer maybe 0.05mm or something closer or further from the base?

I think you are over thinking the whole levelling thing. Its not that complicated or important for most prints in my opinion.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Guest

[xeno 108]

sometimes I also adjust while printing, when it is printing a border around the object, I can clearly see if the nozzle is too high or low at certain places, and I adjust the knobs under the platform by hand

especially with woodfill kind of material, the first layer is the hardest to get to stick (no heated bed), and very slight adjustment will help a lot.

[IRobertI 521]

So am I the only one who just eyeball it? I just look at the distance between the nozzle and the reflection in the glass. Could be because I've done it a few hundred times

On a more serious note. The firmware expects a distance of 0.1mm which is what most printer paper is. If you print with the default 0.3mm first layer you have a bit of margin for error.

[cloakfiend 996]

Doing things by eye is easily the quickest way to do it. Especially if you are doing it on the fly. It means you waste literally no time calibrating.

[xisle 34]

That gauge thing seems like total overkill to a non-existant issue? I mean who cares what the first layer looks like? as long as the rest are perfect? unless am i missing something? I print in 0.06, 0.1, and 0.2 and treat each print exactly the same. I get no issues, and perfect layer height  every time.

 

The gauge is used to get accurate bed leveling (especially when new to 3D printing - I don't use it much any more). That doesn't mean a slight adjustment won't still be necessary, but it's a really good starting point. I also treat each first layer thickness the same from a leveling perspective.

 

What benefit does this gauge thing bring other than making the first layer maybe 0.05mm or something closer or further from the base?

 

I use the gauge so the first layer will be exactly what you request from Cura. If you level the bed to 0.1mm while it is set to 0.1mm Z height, then you get a precise height. Again, fine adjustment may still be needed. So yes, probably +/- 50 microns or so.

 

I think you are over thinking the whole levelling thing. Its not that complicated or important for most prints in my opinion.

 

It can be important for proper bed adhesion when no heated bed is present. I agree with the overthinking, but as a beginner it is one of the many things a person must get a feel for. Then it isn't complicated or difficult to adjust realtime.

[xisle 34]

The firmware expects a distance of 0.1mm which is what most printer paper is. If you print with the default 0.3mm first layer you have a bit of margin for error.

 

Wait, what? So when you choose a first layer of 0.1mm, Cura is expecting the nozzle to actually be 0.1 + one sheet of paper = 0.2mm? Does it also over-extrude the first layer to account for this?

[xisle 34]

Doing things by eye is easily the quickest way to do it. Especially if you are doing it on the fly. It means you waste literally no time calibrating.

 

Agreed.

[IRobertI 521]

Wait, what? So when you choose a first layer of 0.1mm, Cura is expecting the nozzle to actually be 0.1 + one sheet of paper = 0.2mm? Does it also over-extrude the first layer to account for this?

 

I was unclear. It expects that the gap, during bed calibration, will be 0.1mm.

[xisle 34]

 

Wait, what? So when you choose a first layer of 0.1mm, Cura is expecting the nozzle to actually be 0.1 + one sheet of paper = 0.2mm? Does it also over-extrude the first layer to account for this?

 

I was unclear. It expects that the gap, during bed calibration, will be 0.1mm.

 

Bed calibration only homes the head, it doesn't then lower it by 0.1mm. The end result is that the home Z position ends up being 0.1mm (paper thickness) not 0.0mm. The thinner the first layer, the more pronounced the error will be. At 0.3mm it isn't so noticeable.

[Lofrank 1]

Thanks @cloakfiend

You really inspire me, I'm going to get the hang of it (adjusting the screws on the fly).

[Lofrank 1]

Thanks for sharing your experience, @xeno

I'm going to try that.

[Lofrank 1]

The firmware expects a distance of 0.1mm which is what most printer paper is. If you print with the default 0.3mm first layer you have a bit of margin for error.

 

This is exactly what I want to know, thanks.

So If I want to print with 0.3mm first layer, best to adjust the distance to 0.3mm?

[Lofrank 1]

@cloakfiend

I didn't realize this before, thanks.

[Lofrank 1]

The gauge is used to get accurate bed leveling (especially when new to 3D printing - I don't use it much any more). That doesn't mean a slight adjustment won't still be necessary, but it's a really good starting point. I also treat each first layer thickness the same from a leveling perspective.

I use the gauge so the first layer will be exactly what you request from Cura. If you level the bed to 0.1mm while it is set to 0.1mm Z height, then you get a precise height. Again, fine adjustment may still be needed. So yes, probably +/- 50 microns or so.

It can be important for proper bed adhesion when no heated bed is present. I agree with the overthinking, but as a beginner it is one of the many things a person must get a feel for. Then it isn't complicated or difficult to adjust realtime.

 

Thanks for your explain, I harvest a lot.

[Labern 775]

@labern

So you use the same leveling no matter what resolution to print first layer?

 

Yes

I use paper as you can feel the contact better then using feeler gauges. Feeler gauges in between 2 hard surfaces can be slippery but paper gives a bit of bite.

[cloakfiend 996]

As long as you get good surface adhesion on the first layer, I wouldn't worry about specifics. Occasionally if im lazy my first layer is terrible, but on certain models who cares if i dont? as long as the rest are fine its only like 0.1mm lol. Having a perfect back is only important if you are gonna see it if not who cares? I can understand all the people who want to get things perfect and measured correctly, but it really isn't that necessary. The whole paper routine is fine and I still occasionally do it when I completely mess up my levelling by accident. You just need to get to understand your printer and how it likes to operate with the filaments you are using, once you get to grips with it, measuring all these tiny distances becomes pointless as it offers no benefits what so ever. As long as there is nothing wrong with the printer it really requires no extra stuff than whats provided, (defo keep the spare coupler in mind though).

Im using the old cura 15.02.01 and the default firmware that came with the printer, and operate things under the principle that if its works then why change it. I get great looking prints every time and don't see the need for people to upgrade just because they can. This constant updating is a slippery road and just leads to more issues as more new software functionality is implemented. This new cura doesnt offer me anything that I dont get from the old one so i dont use it simple. Find what works (tinker away) for you and find your sweet spot and stick to it (no more tinkering). Thats my recommendation. If you don't you'll never get used to your printer as you'll have no workflow and just cross your fingers each time.

just my two cents.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Guest