Printing PEEK with UM2; getting to 330 degrees celsius then...

[mchughmp 6]

Hi all;

I'm in the process of converting an UM2 so that it can print PEEK (melting temperature about 350 celsius) to test 3D printed parts for possible biomedical applications as part of my Masters degree. So far this forum has been a great help for reference and learning, thank you all.

I converted the hot end to a v6 HotEnd with a V6 Heater Block for PT100 which I believe are capable of getting up to 400 degrees celsius in combination with the PT100 sensor; I then used the Arduino IDE to alter the UM2 Marlin code in the Configuration.h file from:

#define HEATER_0_MAXTEMP 275

#define HEATER_1_MAXTEMP 275

#define HEATER_2_MAXTEMP 275

to

#define HEATER_0_MAXTEMP 415

#define HEATER_1_MAXTEMP 415

#define HEATER_2_MAXTEMP 415

and loaded that onto the UM2.

Then in advanced settings on the UM2 I've been using the Heatup Nozzle function to see how high I can get the temperature up to. I can set it to 400 now; it slowly rises up to ~330 celsius and then gives this error:

ERROR - STOPPED TEMP SENSOR

I'm wondering is that high a temperature triggering some other fail safe condition or setting within the Marlin code? Or is there a hardware reason this might be happening that someone might be able to shed some light on?

Any help/feedback much appreciated, thank you.

Mike

[Labern 774]

I fails when it can't reach the desired temp within a certain time. Different firmware versions have different times in which it alarms. You could try an older version of firmware I think pre 15.0 (can't remember the exact version it was implemented)

Otherwise you could change the heater cartrage to one with a higher wattage so it will heat faster.

[DidierKlein 729]

@Labern has a good point with the heater cartridge, maybe the stock 25w one is not suited to go so high in temp or at least it will take much time to reach higher temps.

The error is triggered if the heater cannot heat a certain amount in a certain time (this depends of the firmware version).

[nallath 1,120]

Just a general point of warning; When printing with non-standard materials always check what happens to those materials at printing temperatures. There are plastics out there where nasty / toxic components are formed.

If you want to know if the not reaching the temp fast enough is the issue, you could try to set it to 270-300-330 in sequence and see where it fails.

[isby 0]

Hi mchughmp, I just wanted to ask how this worked out - did it work? We're considering using lower temp than you - up to 300 C. Is it risky for you UM to do what you did?

[mchughmp 6]

Hi mchughmp, I just wanted to ask how this worked out - did it work? We're considering using lower temp than you - up to 300 C. Is it risky for you UM to do what you did?

 

Hi isby; no 300°C has been no problem; currently I'm at 361° beofre I get error warnings and I think the issue is as stated above; that my heater cartridge needs to be a more powerful one.

But 300°C; no problem; just change the code as I stated in my original post.

Remember to be careful of fumes etc.

All the best,

Mike

[mchughmp 6]

I fails when it can't reach the desired temp within a certain time. Different firmware versions have different times in which it alarms. You could try an older version of firmware I think pre 15.0 (can't remember the exact version it was implemented)

Otherwise you could change the heater cartrage to one with a higher wattage so it will heat faster.

 

Thank you for the reply Labern; very helpful;

Sorry for the late response, I had issues with the thermistor which (hopefully) were due to a broken/faulty unit.

Yes I think my issue is timing out because the heater cartridge is not suitable; would you happen to know could I upgrade the cartridge easily, i.e. just swap in a higher wattage one onto the board, or does it get complicated?

Thank you again,

Mike

[mchughmp 6]

Just a general point of warning; When printing with non-standard materials always check what happens to those materials at printing temperatures. There are plastics out there where nasty / toxic components are formed.

If you want to know if the not reaching the temp fast enough is the issue, you could try to set it to 270-300-330 in sequence and see where it fails.

 

Thanks Nallath;

I appreciate the warning; I will print under a fume hood if I get it working.

I tried to raise the temperature in sequence as you suggested (actually I went in steps of 10°C) and I got to 361°C before it timed out (at least that's what i think the issue is).

My cartridge is likely not suitable; I'm looking for ways to get something more powerful, but it would be nice if the solution I find plugged into the board and ran without any extra hassle or equipment; that's the dream anyway!

Thanks again,

Mike

[mchughmp 6]

@Labern has a good point with the heater cartridge, maybe the stock 25w one is not suited to go so high in temp or at least it will take much time to reach higher temps.

The error is triggered if the heater cannot heat a certain amount in a certain time (this depends of the firmware version).

 

Thanks DidierKlein;

Yes I agree; and since it heats up so slowly (about 15 seconds per degree from 355°C on, before timing out at 361°C) rather than trying to modify the software much more I think it might be better to upgrade the heater cartridge.

Would you happen to have any advice on the best way to go about this? Something that just plugs into the board in place of the current cartridge but goes to 450°C no problem would be lovely of course but I can't be that lucky can I?

Thanks again,

Mike

[mchughmp 6]

 

Hi mchughmp, I just wanted to ask how this worked out - did it work? We're considering using lower temp than you - up to 300 C. Is it risky for you UM to do what you did?

 

Hi isby; no 300°C has been no problem; currently I'm at 361° beofre I get error warnings and I think the issue is as stated above; that my heater cartridge needs to be a more powerful one.

But 300°C; no problem; just change the code as I stated in my original post.

Remember to be careful of fumes etc.

All the best,

Mike

 

Apologies isby; note also that I changed my hot end to the E3d V6 using a kit from their site; I'd recommend doing that as well before going above the Ultimaker 2s default max temp.

All the best,

Mike

[Labern 774]

 

I fails when it can't reach the desired temp within a certain time. Different firmware versions have different times in which it alarms. You could try an older version of firmware I think pre 15.0 (can't remember the exact version it was implemented)

Otherwise you could change the heater cartrage to one with a higher wattage so it will heat faster.

 

Thank you for the reply Labern; very helpful;

Sorry for the late response, I had issues with the thermistor which (hopefully) were due to a broken/faulty unit.

Yes I think my issue is timing out because the heater cartridge is not suitable; would you happen to know could I upgrade the cartridge easily, i.e. just swap in a higher wattage one onto the board, or does it get complicated?

Thank you again,

Mike

 

Hi Mike

You can get higher wattage heater cartrages at 3d solex Or one of there on sellers.

[tommyph1208 55]

Also, try insulating your hotend heatblock... I wrapped my E3Dv6 heatblock in ceramic tape/cloth fastened with kapton tape, and it improved heatup time, as well as heat stability, significantly....

As an added bonus, it will greatly reduce radiation heat coming from the block... In your case, blocking in those 450 degrees to not melt everything around it, could prove quite useful.

I would also look into maybe placing a better/bigger fan to cool the fins of the hotend, as well as improving heat conductivity between those and the heatbreak with some thermal paste...

[hregfroop 0]

I have myself tried printing PEEK using an e3d v6 on a prusa i3. I've found that pt100 sensors will not work at the temperatures you need, and a k type thermocouple is much better. My PT100 sensors kept breaking at 350-400C. What bed temperatures have you been using? I've found that the hotter the better, but can't get past about 150. I'm printing on Kapton tape as it's the only thing i've found that doesn't break down at high temperatures.

[hregfroop 0]

update

I have since managed to use PEI sheet as a print surface, which i just taped down onto my bed. The adhesion is too good, and it tears when you take the print off, but thats still a lot better than I had before.  I'm printing at 385 degrees with a bed temp of 150. Correct me if i'm wrong but i think the bed temp has to be above the glass transition temperature, which is 143. I would get my bed to about 160 but it struggles enough at 150.  I'd like to be able to blow hot air over the print while it's happening to lesser the thermal gradient, but my heatgun runs colder than my hot end so i haven't had a lot of luck with that

[mchughmp 6]

update

I have since managed to use PEI sheet as a print surface, which i just taped down onto my bed. The adhesion is too good, and it tears when you take the print off, but thats still a lot better than I had before.  I'm printing at 385 degrees with a bed temp of 150. Correct me if i'm wrong but i think the bed temp has to be above the glass transition temperature, which is 143. I would get my bed to about 160 but it struggles enough at 150.  I'd like to be able to blow hot air over the print while it's happening to lesser the thermal gradient, but my heatgun runs colder than my hot end so i haven't had a lot of luck with that

 

Hi Hregfroop, thanks for the news on your developments. I found a research paper on printing with PEEK which, while it uses a different printer than the Ultimaker 2, is very informative on different settings and results of those, you might find it interesting:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Shoufeng_Yang/publication/283270065_Extrusion-based_additive_manufacturing_of_PEEK_for_biomedical_applications/links/562fbdbf08aefb4c6cb9ceba.pdf?origin=publication_list

All the best,

Mike

[mchughmp 6]

I have myself tried printing PEEK using an e3d v6 on a prusa i3. I've found that pt100 sensors will not work at the temperatures you need, and a k type thermocouple is much better. My PT100 sensors kept breaking at 350-400C. What bed temperatures have you been using? I've found that the hotter the better, but can't get past about 150. I'm printing on Kapton tape as it's the only thing i've found that doesn't break down at high temperatures.

 

Hi Hregfroop;

I too am having trouble with the PT100s now; have gone through three or four of them at this stage; at temperatures above 300 they seem to fail quickly. I am going to try to replace them with another type; I don't suppose you have any knowledge on what would plug directly into the UM2 board and allow higher temperature readings?

All the best,

Mike

[mchughmp 6]

Also, try insulating your hotend heatblock... I wrapped my E3Dv6 heatblock in ceramic tape/cloth fastened with kapton tape, and it improved heatup time, as well as heat stability, significantly....

As an added bonus, it will greatly reduce radiation heat coming from the block... In your case, blocking in those 450 degrees to not melt everything around it, could prove quite useful.

I would also look into maybe placing a better/bigger fan to cool the fins of the hotend, as well as improving heat conductivity between those and the heatbreak with some thermal paste...

 

Thanks Tommy; I insulated the block and it improved things significantly, though I still needed a new heater cartridge (went from 25 to 40 W), but I will insulate the block when I have a reliably working thermistor for 400°C + (that is the current problem!).

All the best,

Mike

Edited December 22, 2015 by Guest

[mchughmp 6]

 

 

I fails when it can't reach the desired temp within a certain time. Different firmware versions have different times in which it alarms. You could try an older version of firmware I think pre 15.0 (can't remember the exact version it was implemented)

Otherwise you could change the heater cartrage to one with a higher wattage so it will heat faster.

 

Thank you for the reply Labern; very helpful;

Sorry for the late response, I had issues with the thermistor which (hopefully) were due to a broken/faulty unit.

Yes I think my issue is timing out because the heater cartridge is not suitable; would you happen to know could I upgrade the cartridge easily, i.e. just swap in a higher wattage one onto the board, or does it get complicated?

Thank you again,

Mike

 

Hi Mike

You can get higher wattage heater cartrages at 3d solex Or one of there on sellers.

 

Thanks Labern,

Got a 40 Watt heater from E3D; seems good, problem now is PT100s keep failing, looking for a thermistor that I can swap into the UM2 board that can handle 400°C + reliably now. Hopefully it will be that simple

All the best,

Mike

[mchughmp 6]

I fails when it can't reach the desired temp within a certain time. Different firmware versions have different times in which it alarms. You could try an older version of firmware I think pre 15.0 (can't remember the exact version it was implemented)

Otherwise you could change the heater cartrage to one with a higher wattage so it will heat faster.

 

Thanks Labern, gone back to 14.07 in firmware now, no error warnings, thank you

[sergiucip 0]

Hey ,

I believe the PT100 sensor for heater is soldered inside capsule, so the melting temp for soldering is for a regular solder 190 Degree,

I made may own PT100 sensor wich have the pins crimped instead of soldering.You may try that, or contact me if you do not have the knowledge to do this and i show you.

Sergiu

 

 

I have myself tried printing PEEK using an e3d v6 on a prusa i3. I've found that pt100 sensors will not work at the temperatures you need, and a k type thermocouple is much better. My PT100 sensors kept breaking at 350-400C. What bed temperatures have you been using? I've found that the hotter the better, but can't get past about 150. I'm printing on Kapton tape as it's the only thing i've found that doesn't break down at high temperatures.

 

Hi Hregfroop;

I too am having trouble with the PT100s now; have gone through three or four of them at this stage; at temperatures above 300 they seem to fail quickly. I am going to try to replace them with another type; I don't suppose you have any knowledge on what would plug directly into the UM2 board and allow higher temperature readings?

All the best,

Mike

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by Guest

[mchughmp 6]

Hi all;

An update!

I now have a thermocouple installed (with an ad597 amp) and am able to read higher temperatures than before.

The current issue is that the heater (40W,24V from E3D) gets to about 400°C, and no further.

430°C is my goal.

I wonder now whether I am running out of available power from the UM2, or is this the max. temp of the heater cartridge itself.

If it is the power supply, does anyone know what I would need to do to beef it up?

Thanks,

Mike

[mchughmp 6]

Hey ,

I believe the PT100 sensor for heater is soldered inside capsule, so the melting temp for soldering is for a regular solder 190 Degree,

I made may own PT100 sensor wich have the pins crimped instead of soldering.You may try that, or contact me if you do not have the knowledge to do this and i show you.

Sergiu

 

 

I have myself tried printing PEEK using an e3d v6 on a prusa i3. I've found that pt100 sensors will not work at the temperatures you need, and a k type thermocouple is much better. My PT100 sensors kept breaking at 350-400C. What bed temperatures have you been using? I've found that the hotter the better, but can't get past about 150. I'm printing on Kapton tape as it's the only thing i've found that doesn't break down at high temperatures.

 

Hi Hregfroop;

I too am having trouble with the PT100s now; have gone through three or four of them at this stage; at temperatures above 300 they seem to fail quickly. I am going to try to replace them with another type; I don't suppose you have any knowledge on what would plug directly into the UM2 board and allow higher temperature readings?

All the best,

Mike

 

 

Hi Sergiu;

Thanks for the reply;

I managed to install a k type thermocouple so can now measure the higher temperatures

But I ordered some thermistor parts rated for high temps, and will try to incorporate them into the UM2 just to see if they work! Crimping seems the way to go, yes, thanks

All the best,

Mike

[Labern 774]

Has anyone actually been able to print with peek yet?

If so is there issues while printing?

[mchughmp 6]

Hi Labern;

I actually printed some PEEK today on the UM2, but had issues.

Lifting, and lots of filament getting stuck to the nozzle after extrusion; most of the prints ended up stuck to the nozzle.

Temperature settings was bed at 110°C, nozzle at 400°C (I wanted higher for both, 130° and ~430+° respectively but this is the current max I've gotten to; the heater gives me an error a couple of minutes into a print if I go higher; the max it reaches is only about 10° more anyway before it stays static). The PEEK is pretty gummy at 400°, I'm thinking/hoping the flow will be nice at 430°

I used Kapton tape on the bed as was having adhesion problems, this works much better. The prints still lift, but I think this is more to do with the ambient temperature so I am going to try to build an enclosure and heat it to as high as I can before the steppers get annoyed; I've read this is ~80°C.

All in all a good day

[mchughmp 6]

Here's one of the failed prints, a carabiner: