Getting ABS to stay on the print table without Acetone

[cloakfiend 995]

As long as its flat and smooth youre good to go in my opinion. But i really dont think its that hard. You just need to find the right glue, its trial and error, more than learning a technique in my opinion, unless you cant apply glue smoothly that is. Once you've found the right glue you'll never look back.

I printed almost 35 prints on one plate of glass without re-applying any glue. there is no reason at all to use kapton tape to print PLA on a UM2 in my honest opinion. None.

[Hyrumaze 1]

Each one has his school.

Using the Kapton for the pla is pretty pointless, but for the abs or any other material with heavy warping it's cost and time saving in the end.

Most of the time, i do very large printing or a lot of smalls pieces. When i came back and see a 55 hours print failed because the glue wasn't strong enought or having only 5/8 pieces okay, it can be pretty anoying.

[ieol2015 3]

@ieol2015...... you must be using the wrong type of glue stick or something as i disagree with all of your comments when it comes to glue sticks???

With PLA I use a certain brand of glue stick and it lasts many multiple prints, I.e. around 10 to 20 before it needs to be added or re-applied,  and I NEVER re-align my print base and always get perfect bottoms on the prints.

Just because you take the glass plate off, doesn't mean you need to realign everything! thats madness. I take of the plate everytime but never re-align!

I've only used that Klapton tape once, but feel that the only people who are using it are simply using it as they have not mastered printing with glue stick. or lack a heated bed and are forced into using it for something, as it most definitely not quicker to apply and re-apply than glue, and wont give any better results than well applied glue either and the bottom is as flat as the glass plate with NO BUMPS! and the glue stick is cheap as dirt and lasts almost all year.

There are bumpy glue sticks and there are smooth glue sticks. Obviously use the smooth one. Problem solved. No need for tape ever, unless you are going down the ABS route that is, but i don't so with PLA you just dont need it.

 

?? Are you kidding right?

Ok... first:

1) If you have used Kapton once how can you have the knowledge to comment??

2) Fact no words! show me something, photos videos... or you are just writing to spend your time and mine (as you have replied to me....)...

3) I never wrote glue stick gave you BUMPS on the print I write it's UGLY (there is difference, isn't it??)

4) The glass bed plate isn't on a rock mounting support and when you take it off to clean it you HAVE to realign no excuse... or your alignment is 1 or 2 mm (millimeters), so in this case you don't have to realign it .... (mine is about 20 micron so if you take it off you HAVE to realign it...)

5) the glue stick I use is the one that comes with the Ultimaker 2

6) I doubt you can do more than 2 print on the same base of glue stick because it means that the PLA doesn't stick to the glue you put on glass plate to make PLA sticking to it!!!!

So please show me a video where you print something , remove it and print again on the same place and again and again as you write.

and last but not least :)I wrote that glue stick is good as Kapton (but for me , with some disadvantage for the glue stick) so please, read it again because your statement about my comment made me thinking that you are a resellers of glue stick

Edited November 21, 2015 by Guest

[ieol2015 3]

 

Perhaprs it's only my "bad" thought but...seems that someone have some particular interest on pushing glue-stick vs. kapton

1) Kapton and glue-stick are both good for ABS... BUT:

2) Kapton can manage multiple print; if you pay particular attention almost """"infinite"""" as Kapton doesn't change shape, don't make any dirty, don't attach to your print head, don't attach to your printed object

3) you have not to make any realign of your bed after each print

4) you have not to clean your bed after each print!!

5) it is not as expensive as you tought! AMAZON

6) you don't waste your time cleaning your bed (some repeated I know ) and realign it!!

7) the printed surface in contact with Kapton is as smooth as glass !

Now glue-stick:

1) works fine with bot ABS and PLA... BUT:

2) can manage ONE print.. two or three if you are REALLY LUCKY

3) it's not uniform and your printed surface is UGLY!!

4) you have to clean it out and the best way is to remove your bed glass and rinse under warm water

5) every time you clean it and re-apply you MUST realign your print-bed

Glue-stick it's cheap Vs Kapton?? NO WAY

Both method let you print ABS ... choose what you like more

P.S.: for me Kapton Rules

 

I dont have any agenda regarding methods of adhesion I only stated the ones I have up to now that I managed to get to work.

If I can get kapton to work for me then I will use it.

The best methods are the ones easiest for me to use and currently it is glue sticks but if I need to use another method then I will I dont care what method I end up using as long as I get  successful prints.

When my second glass plate arrives I will revisit the Kapton route and follow the advice given...........if it fails to work for me then I will continue with the gluestick but if it works I am happy to stay with the tape.

PS I dont know why you have a bad thought and think someone has a particular interest in pushing glue sticks...........

 

haha! my thought was just a joke on reading how many ones use glue stick, or spray the bed plate with so much disparate material to desperately find the holy grail of 3D printing :D and never mention that a rather clean method exist and that doesn't need so much work, as someone assert (without proving it, indeed), ... but hey! anyone can mess with what ever want, isn't it?

anyway this is a forum that should discuss seriously the problems... but till now, I haven't met a post sticked on top where different method are showed and proven, with advantage and disadvantage... if you try to search the forum you cannot find nothing as every attempt to search, end with showing all the post... and it's quite annoying lurking on all the post to find soething that , in the end, is not usefull at all... :(

[RetromanIE 41]

I've had great success with Dimafix. I got some included with an order from Formfutura and now i swear by the stuff. It's works great on ABS and even though they don't mention PLA I've found it really good for that as well(as long as your heated bed is set to 60c).

Once the bed cools down the parts just come off by themselves. Awesome stuff

http://www.formfutura.com/dimafix-fixative-spray-for-3d-printing.html

[danilius 118]

If printing a long run of PLA, I heat the bed up to 65C, use a powerful torch so I can see where the glue is going and spread it evenly. Then the bed is good for at least a week's printing. I have never tried kapton tape so have no idea if it's any better.

@ieol2015, I don't think anyone is trying to "push" any technique, we are just sharing our experiences. Everyone should try whatever technique they feel appropriate for their situation. The more info they have, the better informed and more choices they can make.

Bear in mind that some of the people posting have literally thousands of hours of printing under their belts.

[cloakfiend 995]

@ieol2015 Challenge accepted (even though its not much of a challenge considering I do this everyday!) I print at 60 microns so ill do it as I do it. Using my glue as well, which i think is a bit stronger than the one it ships with. I have already posted about it but I'll just assume you didn't bother trying it. And as for making videos of everything, well isn't it easier to just write a few words in a forum designed specially for that purpose where you can try out all the methods talked about and come to your own conclusions?

Quote "So please show me a video where you print something , remove it and print again on the same place and again and again as you write."

well....I don't even remember the last time I fully realigned my printer.....and if it really needs realignment, then you just do it on the fly!

....and don't print something on exactly the same spot every time, at least shuffle it round the tray, that is just common sense!

And I don't feel I need to start trying to use kapton tape which takes longer in general than what I am doing? I cant see ANY benefit for PLA. If i am really paranoid i can always add another thin layer of glue, but seeing as it becomes too strong, its rarely needed unless you print 20 things on exactly the same spot that is.

besides, I push acetone not glue.

[paulmag 1]

Thanks all for your input I do appreciate your help and your "passion".

After 3 weeks experience of printing I can say that with PLA prittstick is fine for me and with ABS I have had good results with the original post I made and the Cubestick glue stick which is easier.

I will have a go with Kapton again as I am sure that someone so evangelical about a method must be having good results.........I must just have implemented it incorrectly.

I probably wont make a video but will probably post how I get on.

[eldrick 65]

I have manufactured commercial products for the sport of fencing for two years on a couple of RepRap printers.

I print in ABS almost exclusively, and have made hundreds of my product on my UM2. The product is 2" tall, an inch wide, and has a 3/4" circular base and 45-degree overhangs. I do not use a raft or any other adhesion tricks that require post-print processing.

I use Elmer's Glue Stick. One stick lasts me about 6 months for $1.50. Both ABS and PLA stick to it perfectly and release when cooled. I often print the same gcode in the same spot a dozen or more times without re-applying the glue, and I rarely have prints come loose.

When I clean and re-apply the glue I don't need to re-level the build plate, because I don't let the glue build up.

If I want a smooth bottom on the prints, I apply one thin layer of glue and then rinse it slightly with water and allow it to dry.

I've used Kapton and hair sprays. Neither works as well. The Kapton is costly and non-recyclable, and the hairspray makes a mess of the surrounding area and gives mediocre adhesion.

Since ieol2015 plainly doesn't know what he is talking about, there is no reason to waste a minute making a video to "prove" to him that glue stick works. He is welcome to continue wasting time and money with Kapton - not my problem.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Guest

[cloakfiend 995]

Lol, fair enough, might do one for the hell of it though. For a minute I thought I was the only one doing this, glad to know I'm, not. I don't have any of that Elmers glue but might order some if I get a UM2 myself.

I'll probably do a little vid, to let other curious people know... like those who don't like reading so much, lol.

[cloakfiend 995]

OK here goes. 19 mins for begginers.

 

[paulmag 1]

Thanks for that cloakfiend this is how I removed product from a raft as my first post method

 

[peggyb 169]

thanks for your video again!

try this: apply the glue randomly, put it in the printer, heat the bed up, and with a damp cloth/tissue wipe the bed to dissolve the glue. The heat of the bed will dry the glue in a shiny thin layer. Your print will also have this shiny bottom, as for the undiluted glue will be a bit cloudy, corresponding the pattern of the the glue strokes.

It works the same for many layers, just the appearance is better.

[cloakfiend 995]

 

@paulmag, I dont bother with rafts or brim or infill anymore. It only took a touch of trouble to take it off because i was rushing. I have a scraper as well, There are many methods of taking the stuff off, I have no trouble with that at all. Using a raft makes life very easy, but i like the flat bottom and feel it holds better. I have no issues with the bottom being slightly ugly what so ever, considering it is perfectly flat all you have to do is buff it on some high grit sandpaper and job done. Takes like 1 min or less its a non issue.

[paulmag 1]

@paulmag, I dont bother with rafts or brim or infill anymore. It only took a touch of trouble to take it off because i was rushing. I have a scraper as well, There are many methods of taking the stuff off, I have no trouble with that at all. Using a raft makes life very easy, but i like the flat bottom and feel it holds better. I have no issues with the bottom being slightly ugly what so ever, considering it is perfectly flat all you have to do is buff it on some high grit sandpaper and job done. Takes like 1 min or less its a non issue.

 

I think it may depend on what you are printing there are many ways so it seems

I like the raft for a part in ABS where I dont want to fight to remove it as my video as it has vulnerable parts I didnt want to distort/break also I found that I have less shrinkage problems as the part is not stuck to the table where it cannot shrink and I dont get the first few layers constrained more than the others above as all that is taken up to a great extent in the raft.

[cloakfiend 995]

When I did print in ABS I used a raft, but still got warping so gave up with ABS, I need more practice, or some elmers glue or that dimafix! lol. I don't need ABS for what I print so I guess ill worry about that when I need to.

[eldrick 65]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000U6FJQE

[cloakfiend 995]

Lol, cheers!

[ieol2015 3]

I have manufactured commercial products for the sport of fencing for two years on a couple of RepRap printers.

I print in ABS almost exclusively, and have made hundreds of my product on my UM2. The product is 2" tall, an inch wide, and has a 3/4" circular base and 45-degree overhangs. I do not use a raft or any other adhesion tricks that require post-print processing.

I use Elmer's Glue Stick. One stick lasts me about 6 months for $1.50. Both ABS and PLA stick to it perfectly and release when cooled. I often print the same gcode in the same spot a dozen or more times without re-applying the glue, and I rarely have prints come loose.

When I clean and re-apply the glue I don't need to re-level the build plate, because I don't let the glue build up.

If I want a smooth bottom on the prints, I apply one thin layer of glue and then rinse it slightly with water and allow it to dry.

I've used Kapton and hair sprays. Neither works as well. The Kapton is costly and non-recyclable, and the hairspray makes a mess of the surrounding area and gives mediocre adhesion.

Since ieol2015 plainly doesn't know what he is talking about, there is no reason to waste a minute making a video to "prove" to him that glue stick works. He is welcome to continue wasting time and money with Kapton - not my problem.

 

You have not to proof anything to anyone, even less me... but if you like to share something I think you should, at least , make those info accessible for all, don't you? Or this forum is mere a place to show other how good are you at 3D print without making any advantage on reading it?

Cheers

[ieol2015 3]

OK here goes. 19 mins for begginers.

 

 

That's nice! :)but I will never take off a printed piece from bed with pliers ;)even if I understand that when you print something that doesn't need to respect strictly your design dimension, is a fast way to detach it.....

(and you should at least mention material; printer settings, or that  are optional so this forum doesn't serve at nothing?)

Other story is about how smooth is your print... showing so small area where the print looks good but not smooth as you could have printing on glass or something that reproduce the same roughness...

that's how it could looks on kapton (that isn't at all expensive):

http://i63.tinypic.com/nmeuqb.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/jptr4p.jpg

and a macro of the ugliest part

http://i65.tinypic.com/146uf5.jpg

.... it's the back surface, so you don't care about how ugly it will be ;)I know, but for a comparison you should at least make a photo where you show the entire printed piece..

https://vimeo.com/https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QEbcI0ik7hA/default.jpg

don't you?

oh, I re-write again for the fast readers... that glue stick and kapton are good as well to make ABS stuck to your print bed ...

Edited November 24, 2015 by Guest

[ieol2015 3]

Thanks for that cloakfiend this is how I removed product from a raft as my first post method

 

 

I find this technique a bit complicated, even if make the ABS print comes out pretty well from the support.

It could be nice if you could make a video of the entire process

Regards

[ieol2015 3]

@ieol2015 Challenge accepted  (even though its not much of a challenge considering I do this everyday!) I print at 60 microns so ill do it as I do it. Using my glue as well, which i think is a bit stronger than the one it ships with. I have already posted about it but I'll just assume you didn't bother trying it. And as for making videos of everything, well isn't it easier to just write a few words in a forum designed specially for that purpose where you can try out all the methods talked about and come to your own conclusions?

Quote "So please show me a video where you print something , remove it and print again on the same place and again and again as you write."

well....I don't even remember the last time I fully realigned my printer.....and if it really needs realignment, then you just do it on the fly!

....and don't print something on exactly the same spot every time, at least shuffle it round the tray, that is just common sense!

And I don't feel I need to start trying to use kapton tape which takes longer in general than what I am doing? I cant see ANY benefit for PLA. If i am really paranoid i can always add another thin layer of glue, but seeing as it becomes too strong, its rarely needed unless you print 20 things on exactly the same spot that is.

besides, I push acetone not glue.

 

hi, have you tried to use the search engine of the forum?? Try it! for every query you have 10 thousands result for your search!!

So don't tell me that I don't bother trying your technique because it is literally buried under 10 thousands of others post....

And I NEVER write to you or someone else that kapton have benefit with PLA!!  The post is about ABS printing!

-->>POST TITLE:

Getting ABS to stay on the print table without Acetone

Edited November 24, 2015 by Guest

[cloakfiend 995]

Yep theres a lot to read, but you can just skim read until you see something useful. and its better too much information than too little. And with regards to ABS staying on the plate (as the thread name says) well if you have issues with stuff sticking to the plate then it makes sense to skim read all the threads regarding stuff sticking to the plate incase there is some useful information there. That is what forums are for, otherwise there would be like ten times the amount of threads because everyone would be starting new threads for simply wanting to mention something new.

My backs are perfect like yours (apart from not having the join lines from the tape) but with the occasional matte area which can be polished away.

Don't be so militant about whats said in forums, they are casual and relaxed, and there is no single answer to most questions, you should know that by now.

[paulmag 1]

 

Thanks for that cloakfiend this is how I removed product from a raft as my first post method

 

I find this technique a bit complicated, even if make the ABS print comes out pretty well from the support.

It could be nice if you could make a video of the entire process

Regards

 

It probably is complicated but my solution at the time as I had limited materials to hand I cant see a video being anymore useful the settings etc where in the first post and the removal in the video.

It was an answer that worked on a problem at the time............I now have more mounting plates and materials so should be good................although I cant see the Kapton being a choice a gluestick is just to easy to use in comparison .

[eldrick 65]

You have not to proof anything to anyone, even less me...

I do not need to prove anything to you, nor does anyone else here.

I stated how I use glue stick successfully to print difficult parts with ABS, and debunked several of your silly claims about glue stick. End of conversation.

If you want more information about how to use glue stick, read the directions that came with your Ultimaker, or read the forums. It's not rocket science.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Guest