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Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?


LePaul
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Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

>>snip

I prefer PLA-Tec that his only downside it's that needs hairspray to stay on the bed & it's actually eco-friendly + fda approved + can be clean on the dishwasher + you can sand it really fast + it doesn't need primer to paint fast with a light sanding all around.

 

Funnily I have just seen the PLA-Tec thread from last February again, yes it looks a great filament and I meant to buy some then to try, but forgot all about it! And of course hairspray no problem for me as that is what I use all the time :), If I remember I will buy some next week!!

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    I get it at 3djake because the make extrudr.eu doesn't make accounts with VAT and all that, good think it's that also at 45€+ they deliver free (and that's good savings).

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Well I am pleased to report that I seem to have fixed those artefacts that were appearing on the print.

    fan2_6.thumb.jpg.537bc62e65ed8f612ccce7628c105514.jpg

    [media=20057][/media]

    fan2_5.thumb.jpg.9b84dbb0fbdff604c121b512e87c391a.jpg

    I made the following changes, which I took from the 3DVerkstan guide.

    travel speed from 150 to 200

    retraction distance from 4.5mm to 5.0mm

    minimum travel distance from 1.5 to 1.0

    minimum extrusion from 0.02 to 0

    Of course, with my racing background, I should know better than to make multiple changes to the setup, so I do not know exactly what fixed it, but that is a question for another day!

    fan2_6.thumb.jpg.537bc62e65ed8f612ccce7628c105514.jpg

    fan2_5.thumb.jpg.9b84dbb0fbdff604c121b512e87c391a.jpg

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Last night I tried a test on fan usage; the results on overhangs are clear. Left hand side is at 40% fan and the right is at 0% fan. The first pic is out of focus but I think the difference can clearly be seen.

    5a332125cd310_fanO1.thumb.jpg.8501213f16ab2e1f04055f95bea8505e.jpg

    5a33212607d71_fanO2.thumb.jpg.73c0cdaf7569ea777879565a3d048477.jpg

    I then tried a piece without overhangs or curves and the difference was minimal, although overall I felt the piece at 40% fan was just a little better, or was that mind-games.

    5a332125cd310_fanO1.thumb.jpg.8501213f16ab2e1f04055f95bea8505e.jpg

    5a33212607d71_fanO2.thumb.jpg.73c0cdaf7569ea777879565a3d048477.jpg

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    I did some testing of ngen yesterday.  My materials properties tester is working great now (yay!).  I like ngen quite a bit so far.

    The glass temp is about 80C versus PLA 55C

    The tensile modulus is (higher is stiffer) 0.57mpa versus PLA 1.4mpa

    the tensile strength (higher is stronger) is about 51 mpa versus PLA 53mpa

    What does this mean?

    So it's about twice as flexible as PLA!  That's a fantastic property.  It's what makes nylon so "strong".  Nylon, ABS, PLA, ngen are all about the same actual strength (amount of force to break) but because nylon is so flexible it makes it really really hard to break.  You can drive over it with a car or drop it off the roof onto cement and it won't break.  But nylon is too flexible for some situations.  Ngen is right in the middle - still quite stiff but twice as flexible as pla.  SO MUCH EASIER to cut it with a razor like neo says.  But try to pull on 2.85mm filament and both ngen, pla, nylon will all pull about the same before snapping - about 77 pounds pulling force.

    BUT GLASS TEMP MORE LIKE 80C.  Nylon is over 100C.  These are my own measured somewhat subjective temperatures - it's where I start to feel that I can bend it and it holds the new shape without any effort.  PLA is 55C.

    What does this mean?  It means it's harder to print!  But not as hard as ABS (around 100C) or Nylon (over 100C).  You want the bed around 80C when printing ngen to reduce warping.  You should really enclose the printer to warm the air to 35C inside but not mandatory.  You will have layer adhesion issues like ABS but not as bad.  So you want less fan but obviously zero fan means bad overhangs.  If you have any layer bonding issues, reduce fan and/or cover the printer to raise air temp.

    It also means it won't melt in a hot car in the sun.  Another 30C margin of error should be plenty.  You should be able to leave this in the hottest car in the hot sun in a parking lot.  Hopefully.  Maybe not in Dubai.  But you can't pour boiling water into a cup of it (which you can do with ABS because the water cools to 95C within a few seconds).

    All in all I'd say a very nice material so far.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    @yellowshark - those "thick strings" circled in red in the above photo are caused when the extruder is leaking over air and then moves into your print and the string attaches on the outer edge of the part. Most commonly seen in the "cool head lift" feature but anytime the head is traversing an air gap with no retraction is another common time to see this.

    The best fix for all the issues you highlighted (except overhangs) is to slow down printing so you get less leakage (less pressure).

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

     

    @gr5 , nice write up and explanations!

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    Posted (edited) · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    @yellowshark - those "thick strings" circled in red in the above photo are caused when the extruder is leaking over air and then moves into your print and the string attaches on the outer edge of the part.  Most commonly seen in the "cool head lift" feature but anytime the head is traversing an air gap with no retraction is another common time to see this.

    The best fix for all the issues you highlighted (except overhangs) is to slow down printing so you get less leakage (less pressure).

     

    Thanks for explaining that @gr5. Now that you describe it I can understand what was happening, strange though it is, i.e. strange that it was happening. Apart from temps. I was using my standard PLA settings, in particular 30mm/s and same retraction settings and had never seen this before. I am assuming it is something to do with different flow characteristics between the material types. I changed retraction settings (see above), which ties in with your comment, and that fixed it never to return, so far.

    Edited by gr5
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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Nice right up @gr5. LOL the reason I tried nGen the other week was because I had a PLA part melt in the car!

    I concur with your comment on the tensile modulus. That extra bit of flex is useful for several parts I make; they are fine but the nGen will make them better.

    Interestingly I tested the difference between an open printer and a closed printer and found no difference. BUT the piece I was using had a small surface area so I would not expect any problem with 1st layer adhesion, but you may well be right when it comes to parts with a much larger 1st layer surface area - something I will watch out for.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    For something only 5mm high the temperature in the air is still nice and warm and you will get good layer adhesion from each layer to the next as long as the fan isn't on.

    But if you don't enclose the machine to keep the air warm you can get really bad layer bonding such that there is a grain. Print a pencil shape. one vertical. One horizontal. Bend them in your fingers. The vertically printed one is likely to break easily due to bad layer adhesion.

    This is not a problem with PLA because it has such a low glass temperature versus air temperature in the printer. But the higher in glass-temperature that you go the more likely you get incomplete melting/bonding/adhesion between any two layers. The part may seem fine right up until you break it and then you realize how weak the part was the whole time.

    With PLA the air temp is typically 20C and glass temp around 55C or about 30C difference in temperature. If you can keep the air temp 30C below glass temp you can run the fan at 100% no problem, lol. But for ABS that would be about 70C air temp! That might damage the stepper motors. Instead we just lower the fan speed and increase air temp to maybe 40C. With ngen it's easier than ABS as glass temp is more like 80C. Much easier to print without layer issues.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    That's good to know.

    I think PrintedSolid sells an enclosure for the UM2.

    Maybe I was a bit too hard on nGen. Perhaps it's what I should use for my BB-8 build after all.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Just tape saran wrap over the front and sides and put a copy box from work over the top (they have them near the photocopiers or in supply room - just remove the rest of the paper and take a box home). No need to buy anything.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Just tested the black ngen material from a sample. The stickyness is less good than PLA. The result was rather brittle. Printed clips for filament spools and they broke under medium pressure. Odor is very low, surface is okay, but not as good as ABS.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    You say it was brittle, but did it break along layer lines?  If so that's easy to fix.  I found the material to be more flexible than pla or abs and just as strong.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

     

    @gr5, you must have an awful PLA then. The PLA I use is certainly more flexible and less brittle than NGen. For instance, the filament guide of the Robert feeder: printed in PLA = no problem; printed in NGen = breaks at once when tried to be mounted. For being fair, I used the same color (black).

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    Posted (edited) · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Hey guys, I'm also really disappointed with nGen.

    It prints very well and the finish is good, but the layer bonding is terrible!

    I tried different printing temperatures, even at 245 celcius, layers are not properly bound.

    Am I the only one to experience that?

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Try a heated chamber, i.e. close the front with something isolating. Interlayer adhesion should improve.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    I am with Gr5 on this one. I find it very good. No layer bonding issues. Flexible and strong.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    You have to lower the fan down to the minimum to get layer bonding with any material other than PLA because of the softening temp aka glass temp.

    Try the minimum that the fan moves - around 20% fan maybe. Layer bonding will improve greatly.

    I actually have a machine that tests materials. It tests strength and elasticity. I tested abs, ngen, pla and more. The values I measured agreed with the manufacturers specifications which is that ngen is about twice as flexible than pla both printed and raw failament (ngen 1.8gpa, pla 3.5gpa) and equally strong (both break at 50-55mpa). Twice as flexible is very hard to feel with raw filament in your fingers but it is still a pretty big difference. If you hang a weight on it you will see it bend more (ngen).

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Switching filaments is always a learning curve. The major issue with ngen and abs is the higher glass temp which results in layer bonding issues, stronger warpage issues and curling up at the corners. If you can print ABS then ngen is quite a bit easier than ABS as the ngen glass temp is about half way between PLA (easy) and ABS (hard).

    Putting a box on the top of the printer and a sheet of plastic on the front helps some with these higher-glass-temp materials.

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Thanks a lot for your tips, gonna try that :)

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    Any tips on these "hairs" on my nGen print?

    I know they are easy to remove, post processing with a heat gun or the like. But while printing, they tend to hit the nozzle and gunk it up

    IMG_4656.thumb.JPG.807e02edf73e9a81e69e187e5e11d411.JPG

    IMG_4656.thumb.JPG.807e02edf73e9a81e69e187e5e11d411.JPG

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    What size nozzle are you using.

    I found they normally happen when printing too cold or with a large nozzle

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    Posted · Has anyone tried out ColorFabb nGen filament?

    0.40 printing at 230C

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