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apicalreform

Extrusion stops half way through the printing process 2

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Hello Everyone,

I'm posting this again because I couldn't solve my problem and I stopped getting replies from my previous post. I hope this is ok.

This is the post:

processhttps://ultimaker.com/en/community/17759-extrusion-stops-half-way-through-the-printing-process

Right now I'm trying to figure out why the printer stops extruding every time I'm printing half way through a job that should take 8h to print. It has stopped in different stages of the job but it printed successfully for at least 3h and then stopped.

I have gone through all the suggestions given in the previous post: several Atomic pulls till the filament was 100% clean and adjust the parameters according with Didier advises. Since then I already got 3 failed prints because the extrusion stopped.

My concerns are:

- what could be causing this if not a nozzle clogging?

- could it be the file?

- what else can I check in the printer to make sure it is all good?

- could it be the filament (UM silver)?

Please help

Best regards

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Hi

Thank you for the fast reply

Labern,

Yes the filament is being drastically grounded on the feeder and because of that I had to clean the Bowden tube a couple times.

Someone mentioned the PTFE coupler in the previous post but we discarded the idea because the printer has very few hours of use. But how can I check the PTFE coupler to make sure it is in good shape?

Robert,

I did post on the previous one a couple days ago but no one replied and that is why I decided to start a new one.

I'm sorry the ignorance but how can I be sure that the back fan is running? I can clearly see the 2 side ones but I didn't even know there was a back one.

I have started with a generic filament that was terrible and the print finally started to come out better once I shifted to the spool that came with the printer. Is it possible that even that one could be the issue?

Thanks again :)

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The rear fan is behind the grill connected to the hot end. For older printers the fan starts when you turn the machine on. New printers the fan comes on when the nozzle reaches 40deg. This must be working or you will experience the issues you having.

This guide explains about the PTFE coupler.

Grinding could start for excessive retractions or incorrect feeder tension or blocked nozzle. So just need to determine which one you have.

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Hi Labern,

I went into a crazy spiral of information yesterday after clicking on your link hehe. I spent hours reading hundreds of posts. I haven't tried to print my file again but here is the present status of my battle:

- I put the head of the print apart, cleaned the nozzle with acetone and replaced the PTFE coupler (it wasn't necessarily deformed but it was quite burnt on the bottom)

- I did the Atomic method a few more times, so now the nozzle is super clean

- I Unrolled and cleaned all the filament spool (right now I have only the UM PLA silver)

- I cleaned the Bowden tube, cut the edges and used a bit of lubricant inside. The part that touches the blade is still damaged but till I get a new I can't do anything about it.

- I found out I wasn't leveling the bed properly (so many hours printing and just now I discovered the screw on the back bottom part of the hot plate) So the first layers should come out better from now on.

- I printed Robert's filament guide and installed it.

- I also printed the test cylinders (https://ultimaker.com/en/community/5586-can-your-um2-printer-achieve-10mm3-s-test-it-here?page=1&sort=) The first two didn't come out complete but after doing the Atomic pull I got a complete cylinders printing with 210 degrees as well with 230 degrees.

IMG_20151130_162343125.thumb.jpg.97bd9c30af9d22a0a72e473c5e1383de.jpg

- I also printed some small test pieces and they come out perfect.

- Right now I'm printing Robert's feeder. It should be done by tomorrow.

Now my conclusions and doubts are:

- The issue can't be the filament. Right? Other wise I wouldn't be able to print the cylinders and the smaller pieces right?

- The issue is related to longer hours prints. None of the prints I did bellow 3hs had issues.

- The file could be the issue. I haven't tried to print anything else that takes so long but I guess the code could have something that is interfering on the extrusion after some time.

- I believe I covered all the basis to rule out the incorrect feeder tension and the blocked nozzle possibilities. But I confess I don't know when retraction is excessive. On my previous post Didier told me to limit the # retractions on the same piece of the filament, which I did (I used 0.02) but the prints kept failing after 3 or more hours. What do you suggest for me to do regarding retraction settings?

- Also, there is one thing bugging me. After all the tweaks, when I was changing the filament the clicking and grinding started a bit after the material started coming out of the nozzle. I couldn't figure out why. How ever after a few times that happened I clicked ready before the clicking started and started printing. During the print no grinding or clicking. I have absolutely no clue why this is happening.

I'm trying to cover all my basis before starting to print my piece again. Any insight regarding anything else I can do is appreciated :)

thank you for the help so far

IMG_20151130_162343125.thumb.jpg.97bd9c30af9d22a0a72e473c5e1383de.jpg

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Heres an idea or two. Set the feeder tension several notches higher and see what happens. If that doesn't work set it several notches lower. Don't go by the indicator, it could be off. I have a UMO+ so am not as familiar with the UM2 feeder but I had mine set too loose when I first got the printer and it would grind due to not gripping tightly enough. Lastly make sure the spool itself is feeding, I have also had the problem that the filament got tangled on the spool in long prints.

Next time it is printing bad you can cut the filament right above the feeder and hand-feed it in (don't stop the print). You can use that to decide whether to blame the feeder (it feeds easily by hand) or somewhere upstream. Disclaimer: I have done this myself as a diagnosis tool but am no expert in whether its a good idea or not.

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This is just a case of blocked nozzle. Doing atomic pulls takes a bit of practice till you know what to look for. Till then you just assume because you did it a few times its all good, but its not, thats why it fails after a few hours. Its a slow jam. Took me over 30 pulls one time to figure this out. Also printing off the roll helps with this as it takes away a bit of tension as well. Getting a clean pull can be luck which is why its worth doing a few extra if you are having problems.

Edited by Guest

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like this... i have changed my mind so many times about this, but still believe that this is the ultimate way to print things that use 11m of filament and less. gets more complicated after that.

20150425_140758.thumb.jpg.2f7d7517bd0c9ce09ce1a7f4ec49e101.jpg

i though the feeder was the problem, but its fine its the filament roll weight and tangle chances that are the real issues.

20150425_140758.thumb.jpg.2f7d7517bd0c9ce09ce1a7f4ec49e101.jpg

Edited by Guest
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All of the advice above is certainly worth double and triple checking, but if that still isn't the culprit check the filament tension off of the spool. I was having a similar issue and switched to irobertis feeder. After getting the tension right on the extruder it works great! However long prints fail for me after about 8 hrs. After that I check in and see that I am usually printing air. My problem is getting the filament off of the spool without too much tension. If I hand spin the spool every hour or so to loosen the coil it seems to work fine. I am searching for a better solution for the spool position and rotation. If I put it on the floor it works great for small prints. Long prints I have to rotate the spool. I might try to pre-measure my filament and cut it like Cloakfiend suggests. Hope you figure it out.

I know there were some experiments with different spool locations and holders, does anyone have links or experience as to what works best?

Just thought I would throw this into the mix.

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Hello Everyone

I finally manage to print the whole file (a bit over 6 hours printing) twice!

Cloakfiend

Thank you for the insistence on repeating the Atomic pull. I kept doing even after it was coming out clean and after 3 or 4 times it started coming out a bit dirty again.

Qmaker

I also want to try different options to hold the filament spool. Cutting the right size of filament and leaving it loose works but its not ideal. Please let me know if you find a solution that you approve.

I can not really point out what the issue was since I have:

- Replaced the feeder

- Got the filament out of the spool

- Did the Atomic 25 times

But the important thing is that its printing fine, I'm just fine tuning the settings now.

Thank you all for all the advice :)

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I just printed a 32 hour print without failure! Finally! I cut the filament to length and placed it on the original spool location. No question the nozzle has to be clean, so atomic pulls are mandatory. Did you replace your feeder with Irobertis? One thing I realized was that I had a small issue where the filament would work itself off of the knurled section of the feeder over time. My knurled feeder section was just a bit to far out. Maybe check that it is correctly centered on the filament and that the set screw is tight.

Another thing to check. After printing the new feeder I realized that one piece of the feeder needed a bit more cleaning with a drill bit to prevent friction and small bits of debris being pulled up into the bowden tube as it was printing.

One last idea or item to check. At one point I noticed that my bowden tube ID had constricted a bit compared to the other end. Likely a result of heat from the print head. Anyway, it was adding a bit more friction and created problems if the filament had the slightest variation in diameter. Hope something here can help.

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in my personal experience, if you dont get a nozzle jam, then you dont ever need to do atomic pulls. i have printed non stop since i have my printer and have used three or four different filaments that i am familiar with in regards to best temps, and have not done any atomic pulls yet. i find you only really need to do them after some kind of spool jam or other heat related faliure when the filament gets burnt. and as for printing off the roll, just cut off as much as will fit, that way you only waste a few metres at most., there is NO alternative, spool jams are always a  risk,  i've even had filament that was tangled twice mid roll, if i had left it over night on the roll, it would have been a guaranteed failure ending in severe nozzle burn.

Edited by Guest
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