E3D-V6 on an Ultimaker Original +?

[brentwerder 13]

Hello!

After a couple months with great prints on my Original +, I've recently been having some troubles with the hotend. I've had to replace nozzles, heater blocks, and other parts on it and I'm looking for an upgrade that will hopefully be a little more reliable. I've heard a lot of great things about E3D all-metal hotends and I'm thinking about giving the V6 a go.

First things first - have any of you tried doing this before? There are a couple topics about this on the forum already, and I've read some of them, but I'd like to see if any of you have some suggestions to a beginner. I think the biggest problems with doing this are mounting the hotend, supplying power to it, and connecting the bowden tube - I looked on Thingiverse and Youmagine for some mounts but didn't find one specifically for the plus.

Thanks for reading, and hopefully I can get to working on it soon!

-Brent

[ultiarjan 1,223]

The original+ has the case of the original, the difference between the UM2 and UMO is the XY axis are "the other way around" so in your case you can just take a mount for the UMO, there are plenty around.

The original+ has the UM2 electronics (right? the white board) so you can simply use the E3Dv6 version with the block that holds a pt100. The install is simpel, install and mount, connect the new heater from E3D, connect the PT100.

However, WHY do you want to use the E3Dv6? IMHO the 3mm bowden version sucks with PLA, some people use it, but have to add oil to the tube. So if you mainly print PLA don't do it.

I use it myself to print ABS at high temperatures (270c) for this it works very nice.

Oh, and last thing, depending on the design you use, make sure to use the correct voltage fans.

[brentwerder 13]

The original+ has the case of the original, the difference between the UM2 and UMO is the XY axis are "the other way around" so in your case you can just take a mount for the UMO, there are plenty around.

The original+ has the UM2 electronics (right? the white board) so you can simply use the E3Dv6 version with the block that holds a pt100. The install is simpel, install and mount, connect the new heater from E3D, connect the PT100.

However, WHY do you want to use the E3Dv6? IMHO the 3mm bowden version sucks with PLA, some people use it, but have to add oil to the tube. So if you mainly print PLA don't do it.

I use it myself to print ABS at high temperatures (270c) for this it works very nice.

Oh, and last thing, depending on the design you use, make sure to use the correct voltage fans.

 

Thanks for the tips!  I'm just looking for a more robust hotend that'll handle some more materials. Recently, I've been having trouble printing some materials, and there's been a ton of clogging. I love printing in PLA, so it's a little worrying that you think it sucks - has ABS worked just as well? Thanks again.

[tommyph1208 55]

I've printed nothing but PLA on my E3Dv6 and it has worked fine... I don't want to diss anyone, and I hope that @ultiarjan won't take it that way, but I ascribe 90% of all the troubles you read about with E3D to be due to user error of some kind.

I would say the E3D hotends are a good bet for you for a better hotend, and I wouldn't know what better alternative to suggest really...

[ultiarjan 1,223]

no offence taken I like the E3Dv6 very much for ABS... but had nothing but trouble with PLA. And I feel the Ultimaker2 head works perfectly with PLA (the teflon holds very long when only printing at low temperatures) I basically never have an issue.

@tommyph1208 are you sure we're talking about the same version? the 3mm bowden? from what i've read the ones with a liner inside work much better with PLA.

[tommyph1208 55]

Yep E3Dv6 (not lite) 3mm. bowden version... Have had the v5 for a long time as well... same story.

The inside liner ones are the 1.75mm. version

[brentwerder 13]

Thanks for all the great input! I'm still using the original Ultimaker Original + hotend (with some specially treated Chinese nozzles that are awesome), which has been melting down and giving me crud recently. I'm hoping that the v6 will work just a bit better than what I've been getting. I've also thought about trying to modify the Original + hotend to look/work a bit more like the 2's hotend, but I don't exactly think I'm good enough with this hotend to design a new one from scratch.

[tommyph1208 55]

Thanks for all the great input!  I'm still using the original Ultimaker Original + hotend (with some specially treated Chinese nozzles that are awesome), which has been melting down and giving me crud recently.  I'm hoping that the v6 will work just a bit better than what I've been getting.  I've also thought about trying to modify the Original + hotend to look/work a bit more like the 2's hotend, but I don't exactly think I'm good enough with this hotend to design a new one from scratch.

 

Just make sure you follow E3Ds assembly instructions TO THE POINT... This is where 90% of users go wrong, and they end up with a crappy experience (again, not targeting @ultiarjan here)

[brentwerder 13]

Okay, quick question: if I do end up buying the full v6 kit, should I pick up the 12v or 24v model? I haven't really familiarized myself with my printer's electronics, and I'm not sure which one is a better bet. Any suggestions?

Oh, and I've also found a really well-designed mount for the it that uses dual fans that I'm interested in using (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:397518). One hiccup of it is the thermocouple mount which is nonexistent on the Original + carriage. Probably not a big deal - might just look a bit funny.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I use the 24V 40W on my um2. Started with the 25W but had some temp fluctuation issues which seemed to improve with the 40W.

[brentwerder 13]

Okay, sounds good! I'll try it out, and if my Ultimaker catches fire and explodes I'll have someone to blame

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Ok I should always end with a disclaimer ..... any advice given by @ultiarjan is advice given by an amateur which you should always check at at least 7 other sources. Please be aware that when you do something stupid you yourself are the only one to blame

Seriously do yourself a favour, although I think printers a rather safe make sure to at least install a smoke detector in the room... specially if you leave it printing unattended... wich you will...

[tommyph1208 55]

Okay, quick question: if I do end up buying the full v6 kit, should I pick up the 12v or 24v model?  I haven't really familiarized myself with my printer's electronics, and I'm not sure which one is a better bet.  Any suggestions?

Oh, and I've also found a really well-designed mount for the it that uses dual fans that I'm interested in using (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:397518).  One hiccup of it is the thermocouple mount which is nonexistent on the Original + carriage.  Probably not a big deal - might just look a bit funny.

 

You have a UM+, which uses UM2 electronics, those are 24V...

Regarding the mount, I think it is fine, I used the same one just in a v5 version...

Theres not really a mount per se for the thermocouple amplifier board, just 2 tiny holes to put some screws in, so you are fine...

[brentwerder 13]

Okay, I think this is my last question: where do you guys buy your fans? I'd like to set it up for dual fans, but I'm not exactly sure where to buy my 40mm fans. Thanks for the help!

[tommyph1208 55]

Okay, I think this is my last question: where do you guys buy your fans?  I'd like to set it up for dual fans, but I'm not exactly sure where to buy my 40mm fans.  Thanks for the help!

 

I assume you mean fans for print cooling?

I have used a variety of 12V PC fans... They can be anywhere from fairly cheap (and noisy), to somewhat expensive (and silent'ish)... But really, there are a lot of options out there, just pick one...

Alternatively, I just have to mention the "crossflow fan approach"... Search for it here on the forum.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I think not all fans support PWM.... to be sure you could just get 2 UM2 fans from ultimaker.

[tommyph1208 55]

I never paid any attention to that, and never had a problem so far... Maybe I've just been lucky... Or maybe it means it dosn't really matter for our applications...

I can't find any UM2 fans on the UM store, but my guess is you can buy A LOT of different PC fans for the price of one UM fan... Don't get me wrong, I love Ultimaker, what they do, and what they have done... But spare parts was never their strong side...

[ultiarjan 1,223]

But spare parts was never their strong side...

 

If you mean quick and affordable ... I have to agree, but they are flexible in the way that they sell you every part of the machines if you ask thru customer support.

[brentwerder 13]

Alternatively, I just have to mention the "crossflow fan approach"... Search for it here on the forum.

 

Wow - I just checked out that post and it looks promising! I've been reading it for a while and it looks like a neat idea. Do you think it's a better way to go about getting a new hotend? My friend has the Printrbot Simple Metal with the UBIS hotend on it (he's never had a single jam, in fact he has never had to take it apart), which is working pretty well for him. I also really like the mount the UBIS has - pretty darn simple! I think I'd have to mod the heck out of my printer to use 1.75mm filament, though, so maybe it isn't time for that one yet. And, besides, if I buy the E3D, I could use it on the RepRap MendelMax 2 I'm in the process of building

[tommyph1208 55]

 

Alternatively, I just have to mention the "crossflow fan approach"... Search for it here on the forum.

 

Wow - I just checked out that post and it looks promising!  I've been reading it for a while and it looks like a neat idea.  Do you think it's a better way to go about getting a new hotend?  My friend has the Printrbot Simple Metal with the UBIS hotend on it (he's never had a single jam, in fact he has never had to take it apart), which is working pretty well for him.  I also really like the mount the UBIS has - pretty darn simple!  I think I'd have to mod the heck out of my printer to use 1.75mm filament, though, so maybe it isn't time for that one yet.  And, besides, if I buy the E3D, I could use it on the RepRap MendelMax 2 I'm in the process of building

 

I think you misunderstood me...

All I was pointing at was the solution where you take a laminar air flow fan and mount in in the side of your printer, as an alternative to dragging print-cooling fans around on the side of your hotend carrage... Not the use of a UBIS hotend over an E3D

Though I have a UBIS hotend lying around, I have never tried it, but my initial notion is that it is a solid design, though not as flexible in the options for assembling, disassembling, switching nozzles etc.

[brentwerder 13]

Of course. I like the laminar air flow idea, just got a little off track when I saw so many comments about the use of the UBIS. Interesting idea, nonetheless!

[brentwerder 13]

Alright, I'm going to try and bring this topic back from the dead. I've done some more research on the V6, and I've seen some pretty cool videos of assembly and things. What I've heard from this topic (and some of the videos) is that I should probably use a PT100 thermocouple on the V6 to get the best results. It looks to me like the PT100 wouldn't fit in the included heater block, so it looks like I might want to either use my current heater block or modify the E3D block to accomodate the PT100. If not, would the included thermistor work? I'm no expert in electronics, so I don't have much of a grasp on the electrical side of things here.

Secondly, I still don't know what fans to use - I know that I need dual 20mm fans for it, but I'm a bit hesitant to buy them direct from Ultimaker because, first of all, they're super expensive, and secondly, the shipping takes weeks. So I'm somewhat inclined to buy some PC fans if they'll connect properly to the UM2 electronics board (again - not fluent in electronics here, so I wouldn't know which connectors would/wouldn't work). I'm really excited to try out this fantastic hotend (and replace the hotend I've got which melts down almost every day ASAP).

Thanks for all the help so far, and hopefully I'll be able to get up and running with what looks to be a worthwhile investment.

[Labern 774]

For the fans, Look at the Sunon website and look at the fans for the size and voltages you want. then use that model number and search on ebay for them.

[brentwerder 13]

For the fans, Look at the Sunon website and look at the fans for the size and voltages you want. then use that model number and search on ebay for them.

 

I'll check it out. I'm fairly sure that, since the UMO+ uses the UM2 board, I'll need 24V fans, right? Do you know if they're the right connection? I just kind of want to make sure before I buy them. Thanks for the reply!

[Labern 774]

UM2 Uses two 12v fans and wires them together to make up the 24v supply. If you want just one fan then you will need a 24v one.

They come with the bare wires. If you want the plugs they can also be bought on Ebay. Just check on the Github for the plug part numbers and search them.