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peetersm

ultimaker2 slandered! Strayasys via DA Magazine

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I saw this today in my email in box and thought "What kind a bunch o hooey!"

Check out the crazy "sample prints" around 4:08, they are crazy.

and if you can stomach it, listen to the silly claims and things they say all through out this propaganda piece.

I like at 4:57 they talk about how great it is that their slicing software "automatically thickens" thin walls for you.!!? crazy, how can you expect anything to print right and fit together if the slicer is modifying your model's dimensions before printing it.

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Initially, after I gave it some thought, I thought a software that thickens part of a model which is too small could actually help some people.

What it does is help turn unrealistic demands into realistic proportions.

Could you look upon it as a lot of other features a common slicer offers?

It makes printing easier, and more accessible. You get accessible by

having the slicer think for the user in some areas and correcting mistakes, no?

But don't worry, this is not going to be a next feature in Cura ;)

This was my thought when I just thought about what you said, but after watching the video it looks ridiculous. Especially how they compare it to other 3D printers.

'Hey, we designed a model with an error in it. Our weird feature fixes it so our printer is better. The other printers, who used the flawed file, showed the flaw. Stupid printers!'.

Anyway, I couldn't watch the entire clip.

This picture shows the same level of authenticity as what I felt while listening and watching the clip so.. consider this an appetizer before you start watching. (It is actually a 'user', a screenshot I took from the video).

5a331619addd1_ScreenShot2016-01-08at22_55_20.thumb.png.a55dfa4a02d039d720e2aa7410b3b25f.png

Anyway, sometimes (luckily not that often), we run into slander even worse than this. I'm not gonna share it because I don't think that is the right way. But you'll be surprised about what you come across sometimes..

5a331619addd1_ScreenShot2016-01-08at22_55_20.thumb.png.a55dfa4a02d039d720e2aa7410b3b25f.png

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For example warping, just purposely mess up the bed levelling and every print(er) will warp.

 

But it doesn't happen if you have an autolevelling feature in the printer.

And as I understand this is the advantage of this pro(?) machine: it has auto-features which makes all adjusting obsolete. These features certainly have their price. Then it is able to print with soluble support which is known to be one key feature of dual extrusion (which didn't happen on the UM2).

I agree with you that it is a piece of very self-confident marketing. But that's ok for me. We all have a brain and should be able to distinguish between hard facts and promises. What's really wrong for me with this video is the fact they compare a professional or at least semi-professional machine with desktop 3D printers which I assume are all significantly cheaper while we all know that 'cheap' is not the word we would use for an UM2... ;)

About that print comparison: Some of the bad features coming from the UM2 were certainly caused by bad settings as @iroberti and @SandervG pointed out. Others are really a lack of the Ultimaker ecosystem which includes Cura. For instance the missing support in one picture causing a terrible results. Support with the legacy Cura was really bad and often it was just not produced by legacy Cura when it should have been; it's a bit better now with the new Cura as far as I can see; I assume they used legacy Cura (which would be the proper way: to take the last stable version). Same goes for the missing thin walls. It's Cura. Quite a number of users have that problem. You can read it in this forum. So you can't blame them for these facts.

Don't get me wrong please. I'm fully conviced you can achieve even nicer prints with an UM2 than on the Mojo but it is certainly easier on a fully controlled machine if you have no idea about FFF/FDM printing. And for the marketing slime you just have to grow yourself a layer of PTFE... :)

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The kind of auto leveling usually implemented (probing the bed and compensating with Z movements) is in my mind a fundamentally flawed approach, What the pro printers often do is to put down a support material raft to level out the bed, if you do not and only compensate with z movements you will per definition get dimensionally incorrect objects. Therefore i do not think that automatic bed leveling is a good idea.

The thin wall problem could indeed be handled much better in Cura if it could print single nozzle width walls instead of the usual dual width, and even be able to print widths slightly less than one nozzle diameter and using under/overextrusion to print all widths inbetween. The auto thicken is one of the worst solutions i have heard of since your model comes out with other dimensions than intended... I do NOT want that "feature".

Edited by Guest
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wow, this is a funny (bad) way of comparison: the Mojo costs $6,900, each color costs $ 399 and has the build size of an Um2Go....

The test prints of the Um looks like they come from a bad calibrated UmO and printed without support...

http://www.amazon.com/Mojo-Professional-Printer-Starter-Package/dp/B00T8O7C50

Edited by Guest

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When I started out I looked closely at the Mojo; I decided it was a bit too expensive but importantly for me, at the time, it only printed in one colour. There is no doubt in my mind that for thinner more intricate parts it produced a better result than FDM printer.

When I started out I looked closely at the Mojo; I decided it was a bit too expensive but importantly for me, at the time, it only printed in one colour. There is no doubt in my mind that for thinner more intricate parts it produced a better result than any FDM printer and I was looking also at output on the UM and Makerbot stalls at the UK print show.

It is also plug 'n play which FDM printers are not - i.e. a beginner can get great results from day 1.

I have not watched the video or read the article but I have not seen any models on this forum that match the quality you can get from the Mojo - based on face to face viewing at the show and demos at a Mojo supplier.

I love my FDM printer <3

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"Hi I'm stratysis, the owner of makerbot. Let me just tell you about how lowly we think of the UM2 and suggest you buy our products.". Companies are going to do things like this. Luckily nearly everyone and their brother within the 3d printing world knows how good the UM2 is. The amount of reviews that speak so highly of the UM2 heavily outweighs any propaganda like this stuff, so I don't let it bother me much. It's kind of funny, because it is so outlandish.

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It is also worth noting that at 3 times the price it is unsurprising that the Mojo beats Reprap style printers. It beats mine, which I consider just about the best of the bunch. As I noted mine cost a lot more than the UM but for that I got dual extrusion, apart from the obvious plastic parts like wiring and windows it is made 100% from CNC machined steel and alloys, came with a heated bed which UM did not but may do now and has a vastly superior feed system. The upgraded model has three extruders, water cooled extruders and automatic levelling using an infrared or something sensor. I am not trying to knock UM, as I already said it is great value for money but in the end you get what you pay for. which is why the Mojo beats Reprap on print quality

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Some quick math. The ABS material comes in a $399 pack that allows you to print 80cubic inches, looking at the density of ABS and converting to grams I think this is about 1376g of ABS. Not to mention the cost of the dissolvable material.

I don't doubt it produces better prints and requires less interaction, unless you are trying to print a part that needs to print at the same size you designed it and it decides to thicken it for you and throw everything off.

I am bothered by the fact that in education (at least in the US we have no money) and we are supposed to be teaching the next batch of thinkers. This came to me by District Administrator (school folk mag) and flies in the face of both the reality of our budgets and the whole goal of our existence.

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it looks like the material package is abs+dissolvable, so when one of them runs out, you can ditch the rest as well...

I heard similar complaints of other closed source printers about their material cartridges: the material length before a print is calculated, but when the print is aborted, the chip does not account for that. So in the end the chip thinks the roll is finished, but it is not..

I think a lot of users here are capable of getting similar results as the Mojo when you understand and tinker with your printer, but sadly education is a target for their market.

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For a man, not particularly versed in matters of FDM-print comparison is not in favor of the UM2. This, of course, says not in favour of Stratasys, but some piece of the market they will take. And given the fact that such presentations like sales managers while working with state-owned companies and other enterprise. For the average user, price per reel with plastic price of $ 400 this wild idiocy, while for a large company or the state is more important than the promise of support for the rule of "first 3 hours", and the price per reel them a little worried.

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I don't know exactly what to imagine with a mojo print, because I believe what is shown in the video is probably photoshopped or post processed, but I do think 'quality' or 'good results', goes beyond layer thickness. It is surface quality in general.

When printing something at 60 micron but it has all strange kind of oddities it still looks like crap, where I have seen (on the Ultimaker ofcourse) perfect surface 250micron prints and they looked amazing.

Also, the choice of colour is not coincidence in the video. Mojo have a concealing white, where their competitors have bright (2x red) colours, which show everything.

Edited by Guest

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