Bed Temperature not climbing (UMO Heated Bed Upgrade)

[neotko 1,417]

Yeah I laugh a bit when um2 users complain about a sound here and there.

Anyway if you ever want to get rid of 80% of the feeder sound, get a um2 feeder motor with IRobertI feeder. It's the best upgrade posible to kill the sounds. Specially retracts. But ofc wood geared feeder has much more torque

[gr5 2,170]

I would fix that rubbing - it can cause ugly layers potentially - they will show up as intermittent horizontal lines in your prints. You could remove the cap and cut a bit off or file it down. If you aren't getting any horizontal lines then it's not a big deal.

Like this one - this print has pretty severe Z issues (bed not moving the same distance each time):

[gr5 2,170]

70C is a bit hot. 60C is recommended.

Parts will stick to glass poorly if the glass is 30C but around 45C you suddenly get much better stickiness - it's a pretty sudden shift - above the critical temperature it doesn't matter what the temp is. Sort of.

Then you hit the glass temp of PLA around 52C. Being above 52C is helpful because if you have a large print it helps it give just a tiny tiny bit to reduce the stress and help prevent corners from lifting. This is better at 70C and even better at 75C. However only use that if you are desperate as there are plenty of other ways to get a part to stick other then keeping it above glass temp. Above glass temp your parts are more like clay and can be easily deformed - also don't remove them from the glass until it has cooled to below 50C or you will warp the part a bit.

So at 70C you get issues like the fifth picture down on the left here:

http://support.3dverkstan.se/article/23-a-visual-ultimaker-troubleshooting-guide

This heat can also make overhangs like the robot hands a bit worse. Just make sure you have max fan and nozzle at 210C and bed at 60C (or maybe even 50C). I always print at 60C with PLA and 100C with ABS.

[LePaul 321]

I'll try 60C next time...didn't you recently post a lot of details about best heated bed temps? I searched and searched for that, but the search function on the forum isn't quite the best.

A follow up question... If one were to use the 10:1 ratio water & PVA Glue, what temps would be advisable? Same? Lower?

[LePaul 321]

I would fix that rubbing - it can cause ugly layers potentially - they will show up as intermittent horizontal lines in your prints.  You could remove the cap and cut a bit off or file it down.  If you aren't getting any horizontal lines then it's not a big deal.

Like this one - this print has pretty severe Z issues (bed not moving the same distance each time):

 

No Z issues showing, just annoying sound...I wish I could get in there to adjust it minus a complete teardown of the z-axis. And it's only that one side showing the rubbing.

[gr5 2,170]

For pla just always use 60C unless the part is edge-to-edge (200mm long on at least one axis) and you are desparate. I haven't gone over 60C for PLA in a year.

If you have a IR temp gun, you want the center of the glass to read 65C and the edge 60C (where the sensor is).

Elmer's wood glue, glue stick, hair spray all have PVA as their main "glue" ingredient. Wood glue or glue stick works best if you mix with water because you can get a thinner coat and thus more perfect bottoms on your prints. Wood glue is really the easiest - after mixing 10 parts water (it's not exact - 20 parts water is fine too) spread with paint brush. Rinse the brush after. Set the bed to 60C and wait for all the liquid to dry clear before you start. Maybe 5 minutes at the most. It should be invisible - or very very difficult to see when it's ready to print.

You can re-use that glue for several prints. Usually I keep a bottle of water and throw on a tablespoon after a few prints and spread that around with the paint brush. This is more ugly when you are done but works fine.

[LePaul 321]

I wish there was a way to sticky your comments on bed temps, or add to the wiki

I was doing a 3 inch wide by 5 inch tall print at 60C and the part came off the bed about 2 inches up. Glad I was nearby when it happened and could safe myself some air printing/noodles

I wound up doing 60C again but I applied some glue stick then smudged it around with a damp paper towel. It actually took a little bit for force to remove but not a lot. I've had most prints pop off the bed once cool

I'm having some troubles with overhangs but not sure if it was just the way this print was or if the bed temp affected it.

[SandervG 1,521]

Glad to hear the glue managed to help!

What level of overhang are you struggling with?

Ive dedicated a part of the last schooling blog about overhang.

tl;dr, a higher resolution could help as well. What resolution are you printing at now?

The affect heat radiant has significantly drops after a few cm up.

[LePaul 321]

I was printing at 0.2 mm

What was odd was it was only one side

[gr5 2,170]

The left side always prints a little better due to the fan being on the left side of the UMO. Or did you mount a second fan?

[LePaul 321]

I've thought about adding fans..... (and I can't believe I didn't think of that reason!)

I just wasn't sure what type/style fan to install or how to power it Order another stock UMO cooling fan? Upgrade ?

I've seen a few dual fan UMOs out there but wondered what has the best mileage

[LePaul 321]

@gr5

I found this dual fan type thing and was curious what you thought of it

[SandervG 1,521]

I installed a dual fan on my original 'back in the days'.

It was paralel to the current fan, and it was the same model.

I think it was a very good upgrade.

I used a fan shroud which I can't find anymore..

[LePaul 321]

In parallel....so you just splice the leads into the existing wires?

I know I need to do something, I have a lean tower of pisa situation ha ha

Any fans you can suggest (Amazon, etc)...just want to match up with what i have.

Actually, the bearing is bad on my current fan, starts up noisy then gets quiet.

The whole machine is a combination of noisy things lol

[SandervG 1,521]

If you reach out to FBRC8 they should be able to get you a fan pack I think?

Yes. I cut and stripped the existing wire, connected the second fan and re-soldered and heatshrunk the entire deal back together.

I did need to tune down fan speed to approx 40% otherwise the fans would just blow the filament away instead of cooling it down.

[LePaul 321]

If you reach out to FBRC8 they should be able to get you a fan pack I think?

Yes. I cut and stripped the existing wire, connected the second fan and re-soldered and heatshrunk the entire deal back together.

I did need to tune down fan speed to approx 40% otherwise the fans would just blow the filament away instead of cooling it down.

 

I see they have the UMO+ fan on their support page. I says it is not compatible. Is there a difference in voltage? Size?

I'm not sure what the specs are on the UMO and the fan it has/shipped with it?

I can't be the only one still using a UMO I've seen a few more shrouds on Thingiverse but doesn't give dual flow as you mention.

Looking forward to your ideas and feedback

[neotko 1,417]

Umo fan it's 12V, umo+ fans are 24v. There are some fan designs for single fan that did work for some. Like this one https://www.youmagine.com/designs/tapir-shroud-for-ultimaker

There's a lot of people that wan't a perfect air flow, check this old post, it's very illustrating and fun to read https://ultimaker.com/en/community/3435-new-fan-cooling-design

[LePaul 321]

That Tapir fan shroud looks very interesting

Attaching it looks to be a bit of a challenge (not much metric stuff at the local hardware store!)

[LePaul 321]

I'm thinking this, with two 12v Sunon fans, might be promising

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1268841

[LePaul 321]

...and to make sure for the UMO....it looks like I want fans that are 2-wire right?

[SandervG 1,521]

Yes, aren't they all?

[LePaul 321]

Ever have a day where you want to walk away from 3D printing and say it's just not for you?

That's me lately.

Here's tonight's botched print.

Temp 200

Bed 60C for first layer , then 54 (used gluestick)

40 mm/sec

0.1 layers

(Tried cooler and slower to avoid stringing)

I'm not sure what to do. Very annoyed.

[neotko 1,417]

At first sight I would say that the bed must be a tinny little bit closer to te nozzle and that your short belts ain't tight enough. Maybe it's time to go gt2?

On the string I can't help much since I never get that (1.75mm <3) but travel moves faster and coasting should help (you had s3d no?) or cura beta has it also.

[LePaul 321]

Yeah, i noticed the bottom of the print looked iffy. It's hard to see silver filament being laid down on a glue coated bed ! I was cranked away on the level knobs to fine tune and couldn't tell if i was making a difference. It may be time to put the Dutch Orange back

I have travel speed set to 175, I upped it from 150

Cura 15.04.4.

Notice the ducts themselves look horrible...shouldn't need support. But I'm not sure if that's bed heat or what...it looks rumpled.

[neotko 1,417]

Btw, that duct will last 10mins near the heat block if it's pla. Try to print it on xt, carbon, ngen and put some kapton tape to avoid a bit of heat.

It looks bad. Maybe it's another problem. Anyhow, since you alread mastered blue tap, set printer to 0 and blue tape the glass. Print it like you already knew and start from there (to check other posible problems like belts, etc).