Lot's of trouble leveling bed since heated bed install

[gr5 2,172]

lol. I used to have 4 springs - hated it. was always tipping in strange directions.

Maybe there is some new UMO leveling procedure I don't know about? The only way I know to level is to tell it to home. It goes to Z=0. Then you make adjustments to either the Z switch or to the leveling screws. If you adjust the Z switch you have to then re-home.

That procedure is always done at Z=0. Is there some other procedure for the UMO that levels at a different height such as Z=0.8mm?

[niyoki 21]

I'm using only A4 Paper (90 gram) thickness. For me was not possible to get my print bed leveled. When you turn right or left front screw diagonal back side heigt changes also. Then you move nozzle to back middle screw and turn turn screw again. Then you move nozzle to left front now you can set heigt again, then again to the right screw there also you can change height again, then move nozzle to back middle and set height again, then to the left front screw set height again, then move to the right front screw set height again...never ending story...

With four screws you can be sure when you set one screw you don't have to move there again. When all 4 setteld one time is enough.

But also I never saw real flat glas. When glas delivered even with a flat surface somehow after using it some months you get saddle faced glas.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Guest

[neotko 1,417]

Weird... my 3 machines have a flat flat flat first layer. One bed was banana, fixed it with a bit of force. And also other problem was that two of the shafts where banana (side blocks went up/down ehen x/y moved). Once that was fixed all was nice.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Guest

[niyoki 21]

I did not looked at XY head shafts. But after moving to four springs outer edges and corners of the bed and nozzle have same distance (0.1mm) in the middle of the bed is 0.2 mm and I turned glas upside down 0mm. But I think it is okay for me. I can print good enough.

[LePaul 321]

Well it's nice to know I am not completely crazy after seeing others struggle with it too.

Being bald, I have no hair left to pull

Maybe @SanderVg can chime in with some suggestions from the company workbench!

[gr5 2,172]

Sometimes the printer is crooked - typically from shipping - such that the top 4 corners are not in a plane. Imagine putting the printer up on a corner and balancing it then pushing down hard. The simplest way to think of the result is that say of the outer 4 rods the X ones are perfect but the Y ones are no longer parallel - they are tilted up higher in opposite corners. This requires the glass to be "saddle shaped" to get a flat bottom layer.

Or converseley one of the leveling screws sitcks up a bit but then the 4 clips pull down and the glass is bent to a saddle shape.

Either of these problems makes it impossible to level perfectly (usually good enough) for large prints.

If you have this saddle issue the best fix (done by several people on this forum) is to simple add a shim/spacer somewhere. Maybe a dime would work in one of the 4 corners. You have to map out the problem first though (get two opposite corners perfect while the other 2 corners either both low or both high).

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @LePaul,

Sorry I have been absent, have been away to a show in London.

How is your bed levelling getting along and let me know in what area you still need help!

Happy to see the community was able to supply you with plenty of tips as well

[LePaul 321]

I'm going to try some of the ideas....especially making a robot print with about 6 layers of skirt!

I think @gr5 has a really clever idea. Level per the paper fit, starting with the center one, then the outside ones....then start the print and be ready to crank up/down to get the proper "smooshed" filament spacing.

He also had a great post from 2013 about bed temps and prints sticking best, which has given me some ideas. 55-60 seems to be a good range from what I am reading. But that's another topic!

@SanderVg, I guess my only critique to the Ultimaker side of this is this...there wasn't a very smooth hand off of information going into the heated bed world. How does the heated bed affect bed leveling? What temps should you use? What won't kill overhangs? What prevents edge lifting? The include gluestick is nice, but what do you do with it? (A few swipes? Follow up with a wet cloth?) While the community provides a lot of the answers, the broken Search engine pulls up oldest entries first lately. As someone that does technical documentation a lot, I think if you added some of these basics to customers, that would be a big help. I've sort of spun in circles for a week looking for information a lot of people knew from trial and error. Perhaps we can compile that into something new users can find quicker?

Just thinking out loud.

[gr5 2,172]

Never use the search engine of any site. Always use google. You can't beat 100 brilliant programmers. So go to google and add this at the start of your search query:

site:ultimaker.com now put your other search criterea here

That will limit results to ultimaker.com website and 99% of the results will be from the forum. Don't just do this for ultimaker - do it for all website searches.

[cloakfiend 995]

I hear you @LePaul ive spoken on many threads about leveling and how some people seem to think you need to level it after each print (and made a viseo about this somewhere on this forum which also covered applying the glue), and also leveling on the fly (which is very easy btw), which was just common sense to me as leveling with paper simply does not show you where the filament is going, its only telling you when its hittng paper.

and with regards to temps of the heated bed, the default is fine. i dial it down to 55 for 0.04 layer height, but 60a almost guarantees good layer adhesion. Finally print as cool as you can get away with, you dont really need to worry about anything else. (assuming you know the sweet spot for your filament.)

hope that helps.

p.s. the main reason for re-levelling on the fly is because i level without glue when i use paper so after applying the glue, i know i will need fine adjustments to compensate for the glue layer.

I haven't had to level for about 2 months now after doing this method once properly, and I can print on any section of the plate. the UM2 is good in that aspect. I would kill myself if I had to keep levelling after each print.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Guest

[niyoki 21]

When I change filament, also when same manufacturer but another colour, then I must relevel bed but only "on the fly" no paper method anymore.

[cloakfiend 995]

what's changing filament got to do with the bed? you don't need to do it, but if it makes you feel better. its a complete waste of time imho.

ive used around 10 different filaments over the past two months and done tons of printing and haven't levelled (even on the fly) the bed since the printer arrived. i honestly have no idea why people think you need to relevel? as long as you dont put too much pressure on the bed when (if) you are removing it to get the print off, there really is no point doing it. believe me im not the only one, that goes for abs or pla. if you have issues then you havent done it right from the start.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Guest

[niyoki 21]

You tell this. I had luck I used Verbatim Pla until there everything was working really nice. But this filament was magic it was printing at the beginning nice then I saw some metal pieces under the printer it was from knurrled screw what placed in extruder, then bowden tube weared bad las but not least got also weared ptfe. This filament has been something different like there is abs or any other material mixed. I do not know but I throwed away.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Guest

[yellowshark 153]

@cloakfiend is correct, using a different filament has no impact on the bed levelling; the bed is either level or it is not, you can feed it with chocolate iron filings or super glue, the bed is still level.

Now, I do suspect that a lot of you guys either knowingly use the term "levelling" when in fact you are referring to nozzle to bed distance, or you do not actually realise they are different.

To me they are different processes; you level the bed and then you fine tune the distance and you do need to do this, as a change of 0.04mm, maybe even 0.02mm visibly shows a better or worse 1st layer finish, and I do not think you can get to that level of precision with bed levelling and a sheet of paper (1.0mm or 1.5mm thick) and sensory perception of the paper movement.

That is why I use a software process to set my nozzle to bed distance and it also means I am in no danger of messing up the bed level by moving the screws to set distance.

[LePaul 321]

What's your process? Heat the bed and nozzle prior?

[cloakfiend 995]

i print quite a lot lately in 0.04 and have no problems. who cares what the first layer looks like, its 0.04mm?

software process?

curious, but surely if you often need to relevel or adjust it means you are doing something that is ruining the alignment. it would surely be easier to find out what is causing the problem rather than constantly working around it?

Edited January 26, 2016 by Guest

[yellowshark 153]

When I level the bed it is probably cold but it is about a year since I levelled so I cannot remember. I guess there is an argument that it makes sense to heat the bed before levelling - but you need to make sure, I think, that all the bed is the same temp. first, otherwise it might be smarter to leave it at ambient. I have no idea whether hot or cold has any impact.

For nozzle to bed distance my software process revolves around printing 30mm*30mm*.300 cubes and modifying the z-offset, so yes bed and extruder are at operating temps.

[yellowshark 153]

 

@cloakfiend if the 1st layer is actually presented as the top of the model then the quality is ultra important e.g. flat roofs on architectural projects. Software process see above.

[cloakfiend 995]

Ahh yes, upsidown. I just make sure i run like like 5cm of filament through before if ive changed it. Then i never get the gaps if it clicks. As for levelling the bed seeing as i would do it with regular paper like a phone bill or something, then it would be cold. Im assuming that the height of the paper is slightly too high so when i apply the glue it raises the level to the perfect height. I also make sure my nozzle is clean (like shiny perfect) when i do it. However my last um2 i used did not have that stupid white ring round it. It just gets in the way when cleaning the nozzle.

And apparently 3 screws to level are easier than one. I dont have any experience with 4 screws in the bed, i wish i did, lol.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Guest

[yellowshark 153]

I read somewhere that 3 screws are easier than 4, which is why there are 3. Having never had 4 screws I have no idea!

[Labern 774]

I read somewhere that 3 screws are easier than 4, which is why there are 3. Having never had 4 screws I have no idea!

 

A 3 legged chair never rocks but a 4 legged chair can. same principle goes with bed leveling.

[neotko 1,417]

I really prefer the 3 points level system. I remember when I got my XYZ davinci (horrible printer quality until I jailbreak it) that it got 4 points level system. It was a nightmare to get it right and and I even had to buy a gauge meter since when you touch one corner the oposite corner tilts, so you need to keep controlling how much tension affects the oposite direction, and it was just a nightmare. This 3 point leveling I love it. Alight the central bottom, then front left/right, done and since the bed it's quite sturdy it keeps level for long time.

[niyoki 21]

I had Vertex 3d printer. The Vertex 3d printer uses also three points leveling system, but one screw at front two at back of the print bed (there was no springs).

[cloakfiend 995]

i think it was the guys at fablab who said it about the 3 vs 4 screws and seeing as they have many printers and constantly run multiple jobs, i believe them. i also find the three legged stool analogy very good.

[LePaul 321]

Alight the central bottom, then front left/right, done and since the bed it's quite sturdy it keeps level for long time.

 

Word!