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Posted · bioFila PlaTec

I spent the last two weeks trying to get a feeling for green-tec. (I tested the white one)

It's a real cool material from technical parameters' but also haptical point of view.

It's fully bio-degradeabe, doesn't produce any nasty fumes, withstands boiling water with ease  and it's from a highly motivated Austrian start-up with outstanding customer support.

And with the 25% discount-code they post on the RepRap forum it's a real alternative to ABS.

But anyway ... I couldn't find a single setting which made this material stick on the heatbed of  my Ultimaker 2+.

Whatever setting I tried - and believe me I tried a lot -  it always curled up at the edges after 4-5 layers and and it really showed a nasty warping behaviour.

Using the STAPLES stick .. it behaved nearly like PLA -->  But I don't like the look & feel of a surface produced with glue stick.

On the RepRap forum many users posted outstanding results with GTEC.

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?335,489235

But ... most of them used  FR4 or carbon plates.

Also Extrudr themselve recommend printing on a carbon plate.

So I shopped me a Carbon plate which fitted cosy on top of the glas-bed between the clips of my UM2+.

And what should I say ... All the problems werer imediatelly  gone.

These are the settings for the 0.4-nozzle I'm using now in combination with the Carbon Plate (my focus is on mechanical strength and not on optitical esthetics)

h=0.1 -> 40mm/s -> 225°, 60°, Fan=0 for #1; Fan=100% for the rest

h=0.1 -> 150mm/s -> 240°, 60°, Fan=0 for #1; Fan=100% for the rest

h=0.25 -> 50mm/s -> 240°, 60°, Fan=0 for #1; Fan=100% for the rest

@neotko: really looking forward to hear from your experinces with gtec

But ... shouldn't we open a seperate thread for this cool material?

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Posted · bioFila PlaTec

Thanks @claus !

I got that felling that it won't stick to glass. Might be because it's glass transition it's at 110C

Probably a cristal intermediate like sugar/salt will help bonding at lower temps. Also I suppose plain bluetape should do the job. I will give it a go with my hairspray diluted to see how it reacts, hopefully without chipping the bed.

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    • 3 weeks later...
    • 1 month later...
    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    image.thumb.jpeg.ec8a83dac474ebad35526da27d66a06b.jpeg

    Btw an Image of some filament I took out of the spool and did 8-10 knots, and then twist it. Also did the same with other part, leave it for 2 weeks on the ground and still wasn't able to snap it. It's quite flexible, but with enough infill it's also quite hard (pla it's harder, but snaps faster also). This never snaps (printed part ofc can do, but only on the weak between-layers angle of the prints).

    image.thumb.jpeg.ec8a83dac474ebad35526da27d66a06b.jpeg

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    • 3 months later...
    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    For me it has become the number 1 filament. I'm using PLA if I want color or if I want to save the higher cost. I think PlaTec is easier to print, it has better surface, I was able to printed a small overhang with 80°, edges don't curl up. And temperature resistance is much better too. Only downside: I need hairspray (3dLac) for adhesion, although I'm not sure, if my bed was leveled good. Didnt try it without again. If you want a bit of color or black, GreenTec seems to be the same stuff at same price but in a few colors at least.

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    For me it has become the number 1 filament. I'm using PLA if I want color or if I want to save the higher cost. I think PlaTec is easier to print, it has better surface, I was able to printed a small overhang with 80°, edges don't curl up. And temperature resistance is much better too. Only downside: I need hairspray (3dLac) for adhesion, although I'm not sure, if my bed was leveled good. Didnt try it without again. If you want a bit of color or black, GreenTec seems to be the same stuff at same price but in a few colors at least.

    I just use a bit of diluted glue stick works fine for me...

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    I added a thin PEI Ultem sheet to one of my spare glass beds and PlaTEC / GreenTec sticks extremely well to it. Sometimes maybe even a tad too well. I prefer this over the hairspray or glue approach, less messy. Since I am using pretty much nothing but PLA and GreenTec I am all set at the moment.

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec
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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    Thanks, I will try that :)

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    I'm making some tests with this filament since january/17 and I love it! It provides a beautiful touch/finish (less post-production), excellent heat tolerance and prints overhangs with angles up to 70 degrees with 0.1mm layer high, in my tests. It can be boiled to get better mechanical resistance. Just warping a bit some small parts but good bed adhesion with glue and spray. I used 3/4 of the 750g spoon.

    I will ordering as soon as possible more PLA Tec to my business and I got some good news from the manufacturer that the inner diameter of the spoon hole has been raised to the standard size (50mm), actually a little larger than Ultimaker and ColorFabb, and now they are making new colors available for PLA Tec

     

    - JET (like a deep black);

    - SUN (yellow),

    and soon:

    - OCEAN (blue),

    - SNOW (white);

    - FRESH (green);

    - XOCO (brown);

    Red and Black for PowR, the brand new filament from twoBEars:

    I actually would like to know the diference beetwin Linen and PLATec, I got in doubt if I get Linen to. For PowR I will order one roll to make some tests and I will post a topic for this...

    @avogra and @foehnsturm tested these PowR or Linen?

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    Never heard of PowR :) I have used Linen and Silk, and I think they are quite different compared to PlaTec. They both give a very special surface finish but they don't have the mechanical and thermal properties of PlaTec. Linen has quite uneven surface so you don't see the layers anymore. Silk has a very special shimmery gloss, it actually reminds of real silk. They handle overhangs very good too. But I had inconsistent flow with linen a few times. And I wasn't able to reproduce the same silky gloss after the first test. Probably my fault. Anyway after initial enthusiasm, PlaTec is the one filament I still use regularly, while the others are those exotics, you take into your hand every other month and think by yourself "ahh, ah have to use that for something" and then put it back ;-)

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    I have now printed a couple of items in BioFila PlaTec. The result is very nice and it is super easy to print.

    I have some concerns though with layer bonding. Like @ultiarjan mentioned it delaminates easily, in particular when you follow the recommendations (0.1 layers @ 195°C).

    I get better results printing a bit hotter and avoiding fan when not necessary.

    Anybody else facing delamination? (Only thing I found is this thread on the Prusa forum which is not conclusive...)

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    But I had inconsistent flow with linen a few times. And I wasn't able to reproduce the same silky gloss after the first test.

    What you mean with inconsistent flow? I note some gaps on layers twice... like some underextrusion dots that made my thin parts weak. But it was in the middle of the object even with low speed of 25-30mm/s at 0.07mm. I was thinking that it maybe occurs becase of the alternative spoon holder (I'm using this one designed to Taulman spoon) without bearings, considering that the inner hole has a recicled paper and it may cause more friction. I cannot live without irobert low friction spoon holder... the wider hole of the new spoon is a big improvement to me.

    Anyway after initial enthusiasm, PlaTec is the one filament I still use regularly, while the others are those exotics, you take into your hand every other month and think by yourself "ahh, ah have to use that for something" and then put it back ;-)

    hahahaha... thanks for the tip!

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    Posted (edited) · bioFila PlaTec

    Anybody else facing delamination?

    Delamination after boiling? I never noticed delamination here, but I never boiled too. Edit: I'm actually using this filament to print bones for cirurgical planning, the milky colour looks perfect for it, with no pos-production or machanical properties needed for now. But I will try to make some parts for drones, specially with this PowR one.

    By the way my settings to 0.1mm for PLATec with S3D are:

    first layer 204°C, 200% high and 140% width, no fan

    other layers 199°C, full fan

    sometimes I use 0% fan for the first layer... 40%fan, 60%, 80% and 100% at 20th layer

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    I found a PowR video on youtube. It's probably not the best method to prove resistance but note the subtitle: "Our brand new material bioFila PowR, with a softening temperature of about 140°C". :O

    It means that the extruder temperature is 140? Or it's heat resistent until 140 degrees?

    Looks like a little soft like some flexible filaments... just supposing because of the end of the video... I hope it's easy to print

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    Delamination after boiling? I never noticed delamination here, but I never boiled too.

    No, not after boiling... if you apply stress on the parts they will easily break on the layers; the layer bonding is not that great.

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    I have no layer bonding issues with green-tec.

    do print a bit hotter. like 210/215 with 0.15 layers and 40 mm/s

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    I have also used the same temps as @ultiarjan and I have not had any layer bonding issues.

    The only thing I have noticed with greentec is that the filament diameter on the spools I got is not so consistent and on at least one spool it exceeded the tolerance they stated. It is not as consistent as the ColorFabb filaments I have.

    But it still prints great :)

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    Yes, that's my experience as well, just weird that the manufacturer recommends 195°C@0.1mm for strong prints...

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    @avogra and @foehnsturm tested these PowR or Linen?

    I printed two spools of the very first Linen and liked it very much (surface feel, overhang quality ...). A few months later there were two variants like "standard" and "eco" for quite a while which I found confusing but now it looks like they sell the original one again.

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    I'm currently using Greentec by extrudr at 210°C. Then I discovered weak layerbonding and thought that I should go back to PlaTec. most prominent case was a part with a wall only 2 perimeters thick. in pla i could easily bend it over 90 degrees without damage,  greentec snapped off imediately. i will try it a bit hotter, but i think 210 fairly close to your recommendation.

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    But I had inconsistent flow with linen a few times. And I wasn't able to reproduce the same silky gloss after the first test.

    What you mean with inconsistent flow? I note some gaps on layers twice... like some underextrusion dots that made my thin parts weak. But it was in the middle of the object even with low speed of 25-30mm/s at 0.07mm. I was thinking that it maybe occurs becase of the alternative spoon holder (I'm using this one designed to Taulman spoon) without bearings.

    Exactly that, I too had same layers, that look underextruded and weaken the print. maybe a bigger nozzle is a good idea for linen.

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    And how does plaTec behave over a longer time?

    Normal PLA gets harder and more brittle: after a year or so, it may snap easily when stressed (like you would do with hooks, keychains, etc.). And it may lose its shine and get duller.

    Does this also happen with plaTec?

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    Posted · bioFila PlaTec

    Yes, that's my experience as well, just weird that the manufacturer recommends 195°C@0.1mm for strong prints...

    Well, imo, extrudr publishes very poor info/data on their filaments so i'm taking most if their info with a grain of salt. Which is a pity since at least Greentec is great...but without the info @neotko shared I would not have tried it, yet at least.

    At least they are very helpful when you talk to them directly. When they launched their TPU filaments recently I asked for data sheets so I could see what temp resistance they had etc. since there was almost no info available on their site. And I got the data, and more, from them in less than a day. Yet, as of today, there is no data publicly available on their site. And today they released yet another new filament...NX2...with little to no information available :/

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