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Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.


JATMN

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Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

Also if you can drop infill to 24% I recommend it. Once you go above 25% I hate the pattern - it ends up printing each diagonal on every other layer and they layers don't touch the layer below well. PLA is strong as hell and this print with 24% infill you should be able to drive a car over it. Or at least stand on it.

Also make sure your infill speed is set to 0 (and shell speed and all those other printing speeds). Printing infill at a higher speed is always asking for trouble (and feeder skips).

One more thing - consider getting the um2+ upgrade when it comes out. This makes the feeder twice as powerful. It will fix your skip backs but not your grinding. I hear the new upgrade kit is not for faint of heart - it requires drilling into the back panel. Or print and build this adapter which is really cool and saves you money from buying the um2+ upgrade kit since you already have the olsson block and the robert feeder:

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/belt-geared-um2-feeder-upgrade

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    Posted (edited) · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    gr5, While everything you said is very useful and relevant..

    I have seriously addressed every single statement you made in my pre-posts..

    Except the UM2+ upgrade kit..

    As for retractions.. My issues occur regardless of retractions.. it can seriously have been 2-3 min since last retraction and have skipping or back stepping on the extruder..

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted (edited) · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    gr5, While everything you said is very useful and relevant..

    I have seriously addressed every single statement you made in my pre-posts..

     

    Since you have three unrelated problems (third issue being bottom layer skip backs) but think of them as the same problem and since the treatment for one problem doesn't fix the other 2 - I thought you should revisit the tension issue for the grinding issue and revisit speed/temp for the skip backs on layers other than the first layer.

    A photo of the pattern in the filament (like the one I posted) would help convince me that is not your issue.

     

    As for retractions.. My issues occur regardless of retractions.. it can seriously have been 2-3 min since last retraction and have skipping or back stepping on the extruder..

     

    There you go again - retractions is unrelated to back stepping.  It's related to grinding.  The sooner you think of this as 3 separate issues, the sooner you can fix one or all of them. Although I agree that retractions is probably unrelated in your case - at least for these large interlocking parts.

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    Please eliminate your concern to my bottom layer issue. This is rare that its an issue. 95% of my print failures is from layers 2+ not sure how this discussion has started hammering my first layers.. Im well aware that if the nozzle is too close to the bed it is unable to extrude properly and builds up pressure against the glass.

    As for picture for the pattern I will post one this evening when I get home, currently at work.

    The reason this part is starting to upset me is because I have had both shown patterns and everything in between and they all resulted in the same issue.. I have even gone as far as putting the largest arm for the Roberts extruder mod to smash the material nearly completely and got back stepping (most likely due to the strain from smashing the material).. as well as putting the shortest one so that it was barely grabbing the material and again back stepping

    I have had this printer since late October and have yet come up with a reason to recommend this printer over a $400 china printer as far as reliability is concerned. Im sure you can understand my frustration at this point. -when- it prints.. It prints great, but its never on my own leisure..

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    You can forget simplify3d. This software makes only trouble, people searching settings, helps. But who bought this software says it has nice supports (honestly Cura has best supports what really easy to remove). Do not forget when your machine has nice setup but your printer driver (I call software like Simplify3d like this) makes trouble. Also causes never ending story. I can only comment when you use Cura. I hope someonewho has Simplify3d can help better.

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    Posted (edited) · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    You can forget simplify3d. This software makes only trouble, people searching settings, helps. But who bought this software says it has nice supports (honestly Cura has best supports what really easy to remove). Do not forget when your machine has nice setup but your printer driver (I call software like Simplify3d like this) makes trouble. Also causes never ending story. I can only comment when you use Cura. I hope someonewho has Simplify3d can help better.

     

    Maybe you missed my first post..

    I had the -exact- same issues with Cura and S3D, I use them almost the same amount with my UM2.

    I can understand cura users not liking S3D.. I love S3D for my other printer it has made a world of difference. Now that printer aside.. My UM2 I didn't even -start- using S3D until almost 2 months of ownership of my UM2 and using -only- Cura.. and like I said before.. I have had my issues since day one. I was trying very hard to spend those 2 months to use the printer with the intended slicer to avoid addition issue factors.

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    Posted (edited) · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    Current extruder pressure as requested. Looks like I can go slightly more pressure per your guide.

    IMG_20160126_172525.thumb.jpg.08c8e1891d6212819044c64eb38533e0.jpg

    IMG_20160126_172525.thumb.jpg.08c8e1891d6212819044c64eb38533e0.jpg

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    So took the head off and replaced the PFTE liner and found the spare that came with my printer. which was completely a different size.. which does not make sense even if the old one had melted because it was still as stiff as it was when I put my olsson block on with barely 30hrs on the printer.

    Anyhow Slice with Cura.. base speed of 60mm/s and set material temp at 230C (PLA)

    Start printing with massive over extrusion even at the second level.. ramp the speed to 150% and the flow to 80%.. Monitor for about 10min and notice the second layer surface isn't quite as smooth as I am use to.. up flow to 85%.. about 5-10min later.. printer freezes with temp sensor error.

    DAMN IT.

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    Was able to get my first successful print (after about 6 tries)

    The scar in the surface was from not enough retraction though.. and its set to 4.5mm / 35mms

    IMG_20160126_214244.thumb.jpg.cdcdc8bea009dd511ef2154de4d90974.jpg

    Working Cura settings..

    Layer: .15

    Shell: .8

    Bottom/Top: .6

    infill: 20

    Nozzle: .4

    ---------------

    Initial Layer thickness: 0.2 (.3 was wayyyyy too much over extrusion for how i have the bed leveled right now)

    Bottom layer speed: 40 (20 was too slow and caused over extrusions and skips)

    --------------

    This was only one part.. trying 4 up with print one at a time in Cura see if it can handle it or not now..

    Also cant get my printer over about 228C else it will randomly temp sensor error during print.. which sucks as I have printed ABS just about a month ago with no temp sensor issues.

    IMG_20160126_214244.thumb.jpg.cdcdc8bea009dd511ef2154de4d90974.jpg

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    Posted (edited) · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    Okay I understood about Cura. Your Extruder pressure Setting looks good enough. Somewhere in Forum @Illuminarti wrote some Settings for retracting. Default settings looks like not enough for Ultimaker2 users.

    https://ultimaker.com/en/community/2734-marlin-bug-the-myth-of-retraction-speed

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    niyoki,

    Good read.. retraction is my next setting to tune because im getting too many pimples and strings on my print. I will look more into that article.

    ------------------

    Ran 5hr print last night and it finished successfully. I also addressed a 1st layer issue which you guys have been harping on me about. I had never been able to get a good 1st layer in the back right 1/4 of the bed  due to a massive warp in the bed. Which is hard to adjust for due to only 1 adjustment screw in the back and raising it to make the right side good meant the left side the nozzle was -on- the glass. To address this issue I took the time to remove all 4 bed clips and put silicon pads on the heat bed which floated the glass. Pre-heated the bed to 65C and then leveled it.  Lastnights print included printing that puzzle piece from prior posts in 4 different locations in the bed. This time after floating the glass the piece in the back right had exactly same first layer as my front left which has always been my best location on the bed..

    Right now the printer is running better than it did when I took it out of the box and ran the first print which was the Ultimaker Bot. Atomic pulls are easier and feeding of the filament is easier as well. than it was when I first got it.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    For anyone else having issues similar to mine. My fixes were as follows.

    - Roberts Extruder Mod

    - Upgraded stock hotend to Olsson

    - Swap out the Bowden tube for a longer one (approx 3-4" longer) that is 4IDx6OD (Stock was 3IDx6OD)

    - Replace PTFE Isolator (think fbrc8 owes me a PTFE Isolator because there was clearly an issue with the pre-installed one, dont blame print hours. Please read thru this thread to understand!)

    - Removed bed clips and floated glass on silicon pads (Warning doing this makes it easier to move the glass during part removal so take extra caution when removing parts after prints)

    - Changed first layer size in Cura from .3 to .2

    - Change first layer speed in Cura from 20mms to 40mms

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    Still not sure why I get temp sensor errors at 230C though... This will be an issue long term as right now I can only print to around 228C before getting temp sensor errors.

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    @jatmn I had the same issue with getting temp errors at 230 and above.

    The reason of this issue was that my Olsson block was touching the fan shroud a little bit and that was enough to give me these errors. If you use the default shroud, make sure it's not touching the Olsson block...

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    @jatmn I had the same issue with getting temp errors at 230 and above.

    The reason of this issue was that my Olsson block was touching the fan shroud a little bit and that was enough to give me these errors. If you use the default shroud, make sure it's not touching the Olsson block...

     

    Good to know.. but I am using.. v2 of this..

    https://www.youmagine.com/designs/um2-olsson-block-fan-mount

    Though mine has started to melt on the bottom despite being wrapped in kapton tape.. looks like it might be a little close to the block though so maybe retaining too much heat? As soon as I finish this bulk print I will be printing a new shroud and mounting it much lower..

    Any other thoughts?

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    I'm glad to see you are on the path to successful printing.

    You come off rather unappreciative of the steps gr5 offered you, though.

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    Posted (edited) · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    I'm glad to see you are on the path to successful printing.

    You come off rather unappreciative of the steps gr5 offered you, though.

     

    Im not trying to act like a jerk, LePaul.. but if you read thru the whole thread.. I had already done nearly everything gr5 had offered up. Not to mention (which is already said in the thread as well) I have spent an excess of over 100hrs troubleshooting this issue which is enough to make any one brash with comments about doing something that has been tried 10 times already.

    Also my latest comments about what fixed my issues.. is only mildly related to any advice given in the topic thus far.  This isn't my first printer.. the other was a cheap Chinese clone of a replicator printer which had me nearly drop kicking it across the room to figure out all the issues with it before it started running flawless prints with repeatable quality.  So I had an idea of what to look for with -some- of the issues for the UM2.. but despite that part. My issues have all been around the bowden system (my other printer is direct drive) and a warped heatbed.

    I don't intend to be short with anyone offering advice (its how this hobby works isnt it?) but when you hear the same advice over and over and has nearly no bearing on the issue at hand.. it starts just sound like meaningless rambling of not paying attention to the steps that have been done already prior.

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    It's tough to gather tone/mood/meaning from text. :)

    I understand your frustrations. These machines are expensive and it can be maddening how it is smooth sailing from the day it is unboxed for some...and a struggle for each and every print for others. (Me! But I have a UMO, so very experimental)

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    It's tough to gather tone/mood/meaning from text.  :)

    I understand your frustrations.  These machines are expensive and it can be maddening how it is smooth sailing from the day it is unboxed for some...and a struggle for each and every print for others.  (Me!  But I have a UMO, so very experimental)

     

    UMO.. yeaaaaaa thats why I didn't opt for that one! LOL

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    First / Initial layer height 0.2 very good choice. I can not explaine but I started to use this twelve months before. Until now it is always working nice but 0.1 and 0.3 is terrible.

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    First / Initial layer height 0.2 very good choice. I can not explaine but I started to use this twelve months before. Until now it is always working nice but 0.1 and  0.3 is terrible.

     

    I can probably get away with .1 or .15 first layer.. I have to up my speed to 40mm/s else I have over extrusion still because of how close I level the bed.. I am use to my direct drive which wont care even if its leveled with the nozzle on the glass..

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    I always use 100% flow so I think it's a little strange that you have to mess with that. I've messed with it many times but 100% works great for me. Anyway - I don't recommend you do anything different - just letting you know.

    You can get mad at me or your printer all you want - I'll be fine and it won't affect my responses in any bad way.

    It sounds like your main issue was with the ptfe coupler which is interesting. I sell the 3dsolex one - it's called TFT and is higher temp (255C) than the one that came with Um2. I think um2 has learned some tricks form 3dsolex - more than just the olsson block but also I think they may be shipping higher temp teflon soon (might be a few more months).

    I think overall in addition to having a bad teflon part you were just pushing the printer too close to the limit. I know you said you printed at slower speeds but I'm concentrating on your grinding problem and it's confusing if possibly one of your 2 issues went away with the lower speeds but not the other so you ignored that. Anyway... lets concentrate on heater error.

    Some of the heaters that come with um2 - although they are supposed to be 25W some of them are as low as 18W. I sell 35W and 40W heaters if you want to get one of mine. Or you can remove the heater error from the firmware. Also you may have a bad version of the firmware - here is a history of heater error - it's easy to check your firmware version on the front panel of the printer:

    heater error (as opposed to error stopped - temp sensor)

    You get an error if the heater can't move a certain amount in a certain time while driving full power (when it is close to goal temp it typically runs well below full power):

    Firmware

    Version

    14.09 - does not have the feature

    14.12 oct 16, 2014 - feature introduced. 20C in 20 Seconds

    14.12.1 dec 15, 2014 - from 20C to 10C (still in 20 seconds)

    15.01 jan 14, 2015 - from 20 secs to 30 secs (now 10C in 30 seconds)

    It turns out when daid introduced this feature into marlin his printer had a larger wattage heater than the standard um2. So if you have version 14.12.* you should upgrade firmware. If you don't have 14.12.* I recommend you buy one of my heaters at gr5.org/store/

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    I always use 100% flow so I think it's a little strange that you have to mess with that.  I've messed with it many times but 100% works great for me.  Anyway - I don't recommend you do anything different - just letting you know.

    You can get mad at me or your printer all you want - I'll be fine and it won't affect my responses in any bad way.

    It sounds like your main issue was with the ptfe coupler which is interesting.  I sell the 3dsolex one - it's called TFT and is higher temp (255C) than the one that came with Um2.  I think um2 has learned some tricks form 3dsolex - more than just the olsson block but also I think they may be shipping higher temp teflon soon (might be a few more months).

    I think overall in addition to having a bad teflon part you were just pushing the printer too close to the limit.  I know you said you printed at slower speeds but  I'm concentrating on your grinding problem and it's confusing if possibly one of your 2 issues went away with the lower speeds but not the other so you ignored that.  Anyway... lets concentrate on heater error.

    Some of the heaters that come with um2 - although they are supposed to be 25W some of them are as low as 18W.  I sell 35W and 40W heaters if you want to get one of mine.  Or you can remove the heater error from the firmware.  Also you may have a bad version of the firmware - here is a history of heater error - it's easy to check your firmware version on the front panel of the printer:

    heater error (as opposed to error stopped - temp sensor)

    You get an error if the heater can't move a certain amount in a certain time while driving full power (when it is close to goal temp it typically runs well below full power):

    Firmware

    Version

    14.09                - does not have the feature

    14.12   oct 16, 2014 - feature introduced. 20C in 20 Seconds

    14.12.1 dec 15, 2014 - from 20C to 10C (still in 20 seconds)

    15.01   jan 14, 2015 - from 20 secs to 30 secs (now 10C in 30 seconds)

    It turns out when daid introduced this feature into marlin his printer had a larger wattage heater than the standard um2.  So if you have version 14.12.* you should upgrade firmware.  If you don't have 14.12.* I recommend you buy one of my heaters at gr5.org/store/

     

    Over all my print issues in regards to feed seems to be resolved.. I did have to change first layer to .2 rather than .3 because I level the bed closer than most it seems.. But I am able to now print with material flow set to standard 100% I have also done equally successful prints with S3D as well.. So I am considering that part of the issue resolved.

    I *think* I have the 15.01 firmware.. I believe I updated it earlier this month. But I will have to double check that this afternoon.. Looks like I also have to take the head apart again and see what my heater core is.. I never really looked at the marked specs when I installed the olsson block..

    Also.. TFT?? Im in manufacturing myself.. Honestly having an issue locating a source or even a material compound specification for TFT.. I see TFE/FEP/PCTFE/PTFE.. The materials I can source is rated for 500F/260C.. TFT is generally related to mini color LCD displays..

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    Posted · Ultimaker 2 - Extruder jamming and grinding up filament.

    TFT is the name that Carl at 3dsolex made up to make it obscure what the material truly is. I don't know what it is other than it's some kind of teflon. It is *not* glass impregnated teflon. UM tried that and it made only a small improvement I suspect.

    No need to take the head apart to check the wattage - the markings are way off anyway. Instead measure the resistance - remove the wires from the block underneath the machine and measure with a multimeter and then wattage = 24 X 24 / resistance.

    The actual wattage is slightly lower (within about 1W I think) at temperature (200-260C).

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