Bond Tech Versus the New Designed Um2+ Feeder

[bob-hepple 59]

what's the thoughts on the new feeder system, will it be as powerful as the Bondtech QR3.0 I am struggling with my feeder at moment and I am tempted to try the Bondtech. Which do we think will be the better.

[izzy 33]

Are you running with the origional feeder or Roberts feeder?

I'm running Roberts feeder with no problems, I'm also running with the Olsson block and a 35W heater.

I only have problems if I haven't cleaned the nozzle properly or I'm running with incorrect settings. The only thing I want to do now to my feeder is fit a hobbed gear to it to better grip the filament.

[Labern 774]

I would say the Bondtech will be stronger then the UM one.

The Bondtech sits external of the machine. Not an issue for some but can be for others who move there printer around a lot.

You need to adjust the steps as they are different then the UM ones. there are instructions for this but if others want it more seamless then the UM option you just install the + firmware.

I am guessing the UM one is plenty strong enough and haven't seen anyone with issues yet.

Robert also reported that prints are heavier then with the old feeder.

In saying this, People with the Bondtech are also happy with their purchase.

For me the upgrade kit is a good option as you also get a metal fan shroud. Long term i think this is better then the printed ones.

Spring replacement which will be more stable long term then a printed one.

Better PT100 and replacements for those finger slicing clips.

[chrisw 70]

A couple of Bondtech UM2 kits showed up at my California door just about 3 days after I placed the order. That was fast. Failed feedings were already a thing of the past for me because Robert's feeder solved that long ago. The addition of this new pricey hardware put my UM2 into hyper mode. I can push a lot more material through the nozzle now. The reliability and quality printing seems the same as when I had the Robert feeder installed, but now I get all of that with around 30% more speed.

So that's the good side of it. The down side isn't really an issue with the Bondtech hardware. It's more of an issue that was enabled by the Bondtech extra speed and pressure: Now my Olsson block leaks through the coupler/block joint threads. I haven't resolved that one yet... every 7 hours of printing I clean the material blob off the block. This only happens when I'm greedy, forcing more filament through fast.

So I guess it's like with a car: upgrade the engine and you get higher speed (yay!) Which lights up your eyes until you feel the speed wobbles. Then you need to upgrade the suspension to resolve the newfound inadequacies. Then the steering feels too loose...

I'm happy with my Bondtech purchases. My UM2 seems like so much more now.

[izzy 33]

Have you tried Korneel's Spring replacement?

[chrisw 70]

Have you tried Korneel's Spring replacement?

 

No, I haven't. I'll try that later

[izzy 33]

It's worth swapping to, by replacing the spring with the spacer you prevent the filament squeezing between the coupler and the heater.

[bob-hepple 59]

Thanks for all the replies

Yes I am usising iRoberts feeder but having problems with under extrusion and the feeder motor clicking I use the OB block and never really got away wth it from original head. I found that I am having to be very careful with the material any type of resistance pulling the material and print fails.

Labern eventually rebuilt the head I had problems with, But drastically under extruding, hence my desire to ditch the feeder now. Depending how long it takes for upgrade kit to come out (March) I hope, any longer then I shall opt for Bondtech. Has about enough of this, seems to me that the feeder has alway been the Achilles heel of the UM2.

[neotko 1,417]

Maybe that's the reason they changed it on um2+ and they also changed the motor from pololu to moons.

[eldrick 65]

I've been running PLA at 12 cubic mm/sec for days on end using the BondTech, with no underextrusion or other issues. On this project, I've already printed 7kg at this speed.

There is no way my previous |Robert's| feeder could manage this.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Guest

[neotko 1,417]

Indeed @eldrick but the motor of um2+ it's a different model and it's geared for more torque.

[bob-hepple 59]

Eldrick

did you use the firmware mod (Tinkernomes) I think, this is the bit that stops me from jumping, Although I have Pre ordered the kit I already have the OB.

[eldrick 65]

What you are calling a firmware mod is a simple parameter change. Two aspects:

- Setting the E-steps is two gcode commands. BondTech provides a gcode file that does this by "printing" it to the printer.

- The only other thing involved is the speed of the fast retraction when you use Change Filament. However, you don't need to do anything, because you will be changing filament using the release lever on the BondTech, and simply pulling the filament out - much faster than the filament retraction.

So do not do anything about this.

As to concerns about changing the original firmware, I can't imagine ever using it again. TinkerGnome's version is so much superior it makes the original seem a toy.

BTW, switching back to original takes one command in Cura and 15 seconds to reload, if you are concerned.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Guest

[bob-hepple 59]

Thanks for the reply could I ask you what your head setup is, reason I am asking I use the 3DSolex Steel coupler, the threads are a little bit on the slack side and wondered if I upgraded to the Bondtech would I get Oozing through the threads.

[frederiekpascal 193]

I have the new feeder and I can only recommend it.

My UM2+ ext can print easily at 80 mm/s with 0.3 layer height and a 0.4 mm nozzle.

I printed that fast because my friend was waiting for the object before leaving for a vacation. (it's a gopro mount for skiing, check out the video below)

 

The result came out quite nicely for a fast 0.3mm print imo.

Here's the result.

I cannot compare with Bondtech but I can compare with the old UM2 feeder and Robert's feeder.

[trevorjtclarke 3]

Thanks for the reply could I ask you what your head setup is, reason I am asking I use the 3DSolex Steel coupler, the threads are a little bit on the slack side and wondered if I upgraded to the Bondtech would I get Oozing through the threads.

 

Hey bob!

I got my bondtech upgrade 2 weeks ago, and had it installed and testing within an hour. I used tinkergnomes firmware and agree with @eldrick, seriously good updates.

Within a day, I was printing at ~80mm/s, where before I was printing 30-40 iRobert setup.

As you mentioned, the steel coupler would be a concern, and in fact I had an issues with the feeder being TOO strong

I had a scary event trying to print too fast, and had to clean it up. (luckily didn't ruin my olsson block). This can be avoided by slowly adjusting the feeding settings along with close watching the print and flow.

I too was waiting for the printer upgrade from ultimaker, but decided I couldn't wait any longer and figured the bondtech feeder would be stronger. (I didn't have tested proof, just a guess).

A few reasons I like it though:

1. Its far less money

2. It lives outside the box, meaning it can get external airflow and hopefully not overheat

3. I could possibly move the position of the feed above the printbed for a more direct feed in the future.

4. Im trying full ninja flex later this week, should have some results to share, but previously was only able to do semiflex!

Hope this helps

[bob-hepple 59]

Thanks for the reply I am giving it some serious consideration priced it up was one click from buying if the new kit is not out by end of month I think will jump.

[bob-hepple 59]

Wow I just found the Kit to pre Order £394.00

I already have 35w heater

I already have OB and loads of Nozzles and a head Ache

Not sure I want to lash £400.00 quid on a new feeder

Going to get Drunk instead and have a good think

V P O (work the abbreviations out LOL)

[neotko 1,417]

For an user with almost all the upgrades I would just get the bondtech.

[bob-hepple 59]

Trevorjtclarke / Eldrick

have thought long and hard about this and I am going to jump down the Bondtech Rout for a few reason really, which I don't want to go rabbiting on about hear, I am ordering over the week end if I get stuck do you mind giving me advise ??

Bob

[bondtech 25]

Hi @bob-hepple, nice to hear that you are interested in my extruder!

I will go on a business trip during next week and I would recommend you place your order latest on sunday in order for me to send it before my trip. I will be visiting the MidWestReprap Festival in Goshen, USA.

I am also available for any guidance and help, you will also recieve an installation manual once you have purchased.

With best regards

Martin

[ultiarjan 1,223]

For an user with almost all the upgrades I would just get the bondtech.

 

Ultimaker will also start selling the feeder separately ..... but you would have to wait a bit longer....

Edited March 10, 2016 by Guest

[neotko 1,417]

Well I suppose it will be cheaper than 120€ bondtech. Anyway it would be nice to see an extrusion and feeder force test. The double gear of bondtech looks very nice for flexibles and there's no room for the filament to escape.

[trevorjtclarke 3]

@neotko, this is one of the test videos, I am trying out both semiflex and regular ninja flex this weekend!

[neotko 1,417]

Yes saw that, looks good. But I'll like a 'VS' test. @Foehnsturm posted something but it's impossible to find it.

Found it https://ultimaker.com/en/community/19285-um-2-and-filaflex?page=last#reply-133112

Anyway for an user to choose we need vs test and since it isn't available yet (um2+ feeder)...