Assemble kit for UM2?

[PPD 0]

Hi all, I'm new the the 3d printing and would like to know does Ultimaker produce a self assemble kit for UM2?

Can some one verify these are genuine Ultimaker 2 that they are selling even tho they came with manual how to assemble it. http://www.gogo-shop.co.il/uploads/um2%20assembly%20manual%20V1.1%20_english.pdf'>http://www.gogo-shop.co.il/uploads/um2%20assembly%20manual%20V1.1%20_english.pdf

http://www.gogo-shop.co.il/

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/191819127672?_trksid=p2057872.m2748.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Edited March 20, 2016 by Guest

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Ultimaker2 is not sold as a kit.

Look at the poor quality of the knob.... it's clearly a fake, don't buy it!

[nallath 1,120]

I think it's rather bad that they claim that this is a genuine Ultimaker product (when it isn't). I'll look into this guys. Thanks for bringing it to our attention!

[shamai_k 0]

I bought this kit just few weeks ago, and was assured by the seller that this is a genuine one, before placing the order.

When I got it I saw a cheap Chinese made clone, but assembled it anyway. It has problems with a driver board besides.

It is just one of those sold on AliExpress.

But the weariest thing is not even that, I'm trying to return this item back to the seller, and I only need to present an official evidence to PayPal. I was in contact with Zenalda from Ultimaker support department, send her pictures showing clear differences and ask to provide me an expert opinion that I can use as an evidence. She answered that indeed what she sees on the pictures has nothing to do with an original Ultimaker, as well company has never sold any DIY kit, but as for providing a letter, she said "have a good luck on your own".

She confirmed that they know the situation, and there is no doubt I was sold a counterfeit product, they just don't care, they know the truth, just too busy to write me a half a page letter confirming the truth.

I assume not only GOGO shop sells a counterfeit Ultimakers, but most of the retailers do that. With such a great help from the manufacturer anyone should be an idiot not to buy a DIY kit from China for $500 -$800 and sell it then with a $1000 profit at least.

Edited March 29, 2016 by SandervG

[neotko 1,417]

Well, the sources are available for anyone to clone it if they desire. Ofc it's not legal to use the Ultimaker logo or name, or selling it? Anyhow, you didn't bough it on an Ultimaker distributor. You went to aliexpress, there's close to 0 real products (genuine brands) there, so...

If you want to learn, and expend some cash on it, you might be able to fix most of the problems, buying good quality shafts, learning how to improve stuff, and even buying a real hotend to any ultimaker distributor. Cheap means, specially, zero quality control and zero warranty. But if you invest some extra cash, and read as much as you can on this forums and others, you might be able to use that printer so it prints ok.

Now, read the forums, google, read, read read and read, and you will be able to fix that cloned low quality printer.

[shamai_k 0]

I know the source is available (now), and I know the legal issue of using the logo,

This is the reason I didn't buy anything on aliexpress (by the way all of their clones come with no logo). I didn't even want to try a fake stuff, I bought (as I was assured a genuine product)

and I knew, that in case I would be cheated there would be no problem to get the money back. That what the PayPal is for. Now the problem is not to fix a fake printer, it is easy, I don't want it anyway. I'm just surprised by the Ultimaker support behavior. Indeed I wanted to buy an original UM2 extended cheaper ( around $1800, not very cheap, there are $500 on ali), I think it is legitimate for retailers to compete for the market by means of price, yet I enjoy buying DIY kits, I bought tube amplifiers kits and many other things, they were all genuine and exceptional quality, yet around 30% to 50% cheaper. I didn't know until now there are no genuine UM2 kits. This is my only mistake. Anyway, I cannot understand UM support, why can't they give their expert opinion so i can use it as a proof. I guess there would be enough to issue a warning on the product site saying that, it might help others like me.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

hmmm, although I feel for you, Ultimaker is already doing a lot for the 3D printing community. Their investment in the development of Cura is used by many competitors. And now you expect them to invest time/money in helping people who bought counterfeit products? Think that's a bit much to ask from them....

[shamai_k 0]

That's the whole point! I don't expect anyone to invest any money! I'm offering help on my own. That's me, who invested the money in trying to buy an original product, if I wanted a fake one, I could have done it by paying just 30% of what I've paid. But what I'm offering is just to give me a written confirmation of the basic facts, which they actually confirmed already, although not in official letter. With such a confirmation I could screw this GOGO shop really hard.

For myself, I can return this crap and get the money back, so I can buy an original product somewhere else, just a bit more expensive. But as for UM, there is much more that they get, PayPal confirmed that by disclosing the facts of selling the counterfeit goods, they will close this shop's account and freeze all further transactions. I believe these guys will not try to repeat this trick again. Even if they will try to sell some Chinese clones, which are plenty on the market, they would have to write, Ultimaker COMPATIBLE, or so. That's what everybody else do, with little success. Before i got a reply from the UM support I though I was doing a favor, by trying to shut the indecent retail store, definitely protecting my own interests as well.  But i'm still shocked by the fact, that the company refuses to do just as little as write a few words on company's letterhead confirming the true facts. I guess Ms. Zenalda from UM support does not quite understand the situation. She probably thinks I'm pursuing some kind of my own "VOODOO" interests, while all of my interests are just to buy an original product paying the best price. I don't think UM's interests are any different from mine. But now I will really think twice, just paying the highest price does not automatically guaranty the product will be original. The same guys may already opened another web store where they sell the same crap twice as expensive. Now being too apprehensive, I (or anyone else) might fall into the next trap,

of the same nature. I consider myself a genuine UM customer, I sought to buy a genuine UM product, but was very primitively screwed. Now, whoever is supposed to take care of the customers, a minimum help that I'm asking for, is trying to make thing even worse.

Please help me to find any logic in what's happening

Edited March 30, 2016 by SandervG

[nallath 1,120]

Take a few deep breaths.

When I first saw your post, I already escalated this to the right people in management. Due to copyright legislation, we are forced to act on this (Stupid thing about trademarks is that if you don't legally go after those who use it without permission, you lose it).

You really can't expect that in a 100+ people company everyone knows what everyone is doing these days.

Also; I'd prefer if you'd not start name calling. Especially not with full names. Google is a bitch in that regard.

[shamai_k 0]

Thank you nallath. I was hoping someone would read this and as act the common sense would require. Like I said, I cannot solve UM's problem globally, but I can really help a lot in this specific case! Just help me to help you!

[cloakfiend 995]

Lol. You say you expect to get genuine stuff when you spend the most, yet you still bought something from a known website that sells fake everything at a lower price. Also if people are serious about things, they do research, and many people go to the forums of the thing they are going to buy and ask questions. You chose to look at a website that sells the um2 for $500 lol facepalm. Then you thought no its too cheap so you went for a slightly more expensive one, maybe $800 lol facepalm? Im sorry but i have no idea how you expect to put it together without doing any research at all considering the um2 kit does not exist on the internet? I mean if i was buying a kit i would look for articles about how easy it was to assemble on this thing called the internet, what i needed and what people thought of it. You just thought with your wallet. yes the um2 is expensive, but the um2 kit is a waste of 500 bucks in the toilet. Its pretty obvious what ultimaker sells, it on their website. And you have you be blind not to notice a clone missing the name on it. How can you assemble a clone if you are blind? I find your story stupid and if you deliberetely paid with paypal thinking it may be fake, why didnt you just ask someone on this website BEFORE you wasted your money. Its what normal people do. Ali express....seriously? Did you not google fake um2 or um2 clones before buying? Or even um2 kit? How old are you, like 10 years old or something?

Sorry but you are the reason the face palm meme was created.

[shamai_k 0]

Mr cloakfiend, I would suggest you to read  at least FIVE times the same articles when you do your research. The reason is you're missing all of the information in it. If you read it carefully again, you'll find out that I bought mine for $1800, and it has a BRAND name on it and the retailer, it's not a one day existing Chinese web shop, they have an address and could be visited . I know about the clones, they actually come in variety of names, either without name at all, which is pretty honest. Now, this one, I personally talked live on a phone with retailer, and was assured about genuine origin of it. Again, it was weeks before this topic appeared.  Anyway, looks like you're in your late 80's, that's when elders start reading one thing but understand whatever fantasies they have in mind.

[IRobertI 520]

Ok, let's act like adults and stop with the mud slinging, guys.

The issue has been sent up the chain to the people that need to see it. If and when UM has something to share with you I'm sure they'll get in touch. Until then you'll just have to be patient.

[shamai_k 0]

Ok, let's act like adults and stop with the mud slinging, guys.

The issue has been sent up the chain to the people that need to see it. If and when UM has something to share with you I'm sure they'll get in touch. Until then you'll just have to be patient.

 

You're absolutely right, about both acting like adults and having some answers from UM.

There are things even funnier than what I already said. This web shop has a land based address and it just number of blocks away from me. They have a tiny showroom with UM 2 on display (sometimes they don't when it's sold out). With a brand name on it, and it's really hard to note it's a fake one, unless you already own one (unlike me). Thanks got it was malfunctioning, I would never new it's fake, otherwise. Only then I started to compare it closely with online pictures and found visual differences. Now, the official dealer is located number of blocks in the other direction, and I called them. They said, they are aware of the situation, and they bought one from this store themselves, to mark the differences. When I asked to give me an expert opinion they said their law department prohibits them from acting on behalf of anyone, unless having a proper request from the right's owner. Their further suggestion was to contact UM directly, which I did, with all of the story above.

[cloakfiend 995]

Yes i am old but that just means ive been through a lot. I often go over the top on subjects because of my old age and yes you are right about my mind, i just make up a fantasy and stick with it. I also lose track of the length of my posts so apologies for that. I wont offer my opinions anymore dont worry at least you can get your money back because you paid in paypal. When i was young i wondered why old people complain so much, now i know. I will stay in my mud and not throw it at people any more.

[shamai_k 0]

Yes i am old but that just means ive been through a lot. I often go over the top on subjects because of my old age and yes you are right about my mind, i just make up a fantasy and stick with it. I also lose track of the length of my posts so apologies for that. I wont offer my opinions anymore dont worry at least you can get your money back because you paid in paypal. When i was young i wondered why old people complain so much, now i know. I will stay in my mud and not throw it at people any more.

 

My apologies for pinching about the age, thinking again, it's not wasn't really appropriate, sorry! Unfortunately  I'm not 10 years old either! All I meant was just go over the  whole post again and you'll discover this thing is much trickier than just buying something from AliExpress for 30% of the price and expecting to get a genuine goods. Actually, I'm just shocked by the amount of ignorance this GOGO shop demonstrates, but I'm  shocked even more by the response of the UM on this act. These guys put on display a fake item located just few miles away from an official distributor's office. The last one knows that! UM knows that! Just one lousy letter would be enough to shut it down, but neither distributor no UM are willing to do that! How do you find this situation? Anyway, I ordered it online just because I knew it's not something as distant as Ali, and that's the reason I paid via PayPal, otherwise I would've done it paying cash. Now, blaming me for saving around 20% over the purchase of DIY kit.... I think,

there are some other people with greater responsibility for that. I would never believe it's possible, but now... not that I just believe, I even know the reason why it happens.

Your comments please!

[cloakfiend 995]

Trust me, you dont want to hear my comments on this topic. You failed to research your purchase. Its that simple.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Guy's...... as Robert asked before .... please stop this .... you're both just repeating yourself....

[SandervG 1,521]

Please keep it friendly people.

If you need to be reminded about the house rules of the forum, here is a link.

If there is any news on this topic from Ultimakers behalf we'll get in touch with you, and update this topic.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Guest

[GoGoShop 0]

hi, we are from the "GoGo Shop" Company.

Let us explain our what we have to say:

first of all, ultimaker 2 is open source.

the licence is CC-by-NC

all the parts for ultimaker 2 is shown in this link:

https://github.com/Ultimaker/Ultimaker2

Now, about what we selling:

this is not a complete printer, we selling only the parts for build your printer yourself.

of course its totally other case if you sell a complete printer and tell that is "ultimaker 2 original".

important to know that most of the parts are common parts. to ultimaker company not have any type about copyrights on this common parts.

only the main parts like the electric boards, generally structure, firmware, etc ...

but again, this parts have a license of Creative Common. so can't say that is

illicit to selling or fake.

the term "fake" it is only for fully commercial product and not under license of Creative Common (except for very specific exceptions, but this is for another topic).

if you want to build your ultimaker 2 and not buy the assembled one from ultimaker company (for save a money if you can't allow it yourself). its can be hard work to attaches all the parts from different suppliers.

also, the quality of the parts can be very different even if look same, also need to verify and check the quality of the parts.

To solve this difficult problem we come in. you can buy in one package all the best quality parts for build your own Ultimaker 2 printer.

There are a lot of parameters, mainly with stepper motors and electron boards, in our we buy from manufacturer that operation the most rigorous testing using X-rays.

Probably, Mr. Shamai does not know correctly assemble the printer and is having difficulties.

we offered him help, but he preferred to open a paypal dispute in order to save himself.

About what you see in the bad looking knob.

its my private reason, actually the printer are come with some beautiful transparent knob frame.

but he wrongly broken me by cocked on it, so i not use it on my printer, that is what you can see on the video.

however, the video have target to demonstrate how our finally printer is do the job of printing and they show very high result model.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Guest

[DidierKlein 729]

Hi thanks for your explanation

So yes Ultimaker is openSource and yes you can build it yourself.

Now maybe you need to read the CC by NC licence again, it clearly says: for non commercial use!

I would also like to hear what you have to say about this:

 

I bought this kit just few weeks ago, and was assured by the seller that this is a genuine one, before placing the order.

[GoGoShop 0]

Well, i think that Mr. Shamai don't know the fact that ultimaker 2 is not a "full under a copyright commercial product" (i mean like of windows/microsoft, mac/apple, etc... they are full closed product) before he choose to buy it, he maybe automatically was thinking that is original.

but we never wrote "Original" or "Genuine" on any of selling pages.

by depending on what Mr. Shamai said last messages, sounds like he even now still does not understand that is Creative Common license and our machine completely legality.

This is why he so shocked from the reply of ultimaker company.

now, about the "... by-NC":

need ask the question "what came into this definition of non commercial use".

actually This is the too much general definition.

just for example, I can say that even selling of really original machine it is illegal action because its that i do a commercial use that help me to earn money.

Maybe this not the best example to convey my message, because obviously all people know that its ok to marketing a genuine product.

this is why the license contains many pages.

Anyway, I can say that we make a consultation with attorney.

short answer by some examples:

- NOT ALLOWED to sell complete Ultimaker 2 with logo of ultimaker 2.

- BUT ALLOWED to sell sticker with logo of "Ultimaker2", on condition that it is not sticky to other part in the machine. just like as you are allowed to buy a sticker of any luxury brand, if you love this brand, you can glue it on any place as you want.

- ALLOWED to sell complete Ultimaker2 if you call it in other name and notes that it is based on ultimaker2 structure.

-  ALLOWED to sell replacement parts, even all of them in one package if they are not assembled into complete machine.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Guest

[neotko 1,417]

Wow this it's quite disgusting I need to stop reading this post right now.

[cloakfiend 995]

Gogoshop.... More like ruthless false advertising lying loophole shop that just doesnt give a fuck.

Edited April 13, 2016 by DidierKlein
Delete some aggressive content

[DidierKlein 729]

Well, i think that Mr. Shamai don't know the fact that ultimaker 2 is not a "full under a copyright commercial product" (i mean like of windows/microsoft, mac/apple, etc... they are full closed product) before he choose to buy it, he maybe automatically was thinking that is original.

 

Mr shamai said that the seller (that being you) claimed it was a genuine one.

 

but we never wrote "Original" or "Genuine" on any of selling pages.

by depending on what Mr. Shamai said last messages, sounds like he even now still does not understand that is Creative Common license and our machine completely legality.

This is why he so shocked from the reply of ultimaker company.

 

So why does the shop present the sold printer like an Ultimaker 2 (with official branded pictures?)

 

now, about the "... by-NC":

need ask the question "what came into this definition of non commercial use".

actually This is the too much general definition.

just for example, I can say that even selling of really original machine it is illegal action because its that i do a commercial use that help me to earn money.

 

Resellers have an official contract with Ultimaker to resell their products

 

Maybe this not the best example to convey my message, because obviously all people know that its ok to marketing a genuine product.

this is why the license contains many pages.

Anyway, I can say that we make a consultation with attorney.

short answer by some examples:

- NOT ALLOWED to sell complete Ultimaker 2 with logo of ultimaker 2.

- BUT ALLOWED to sell sticker with logo of "Ultimaker2", on condition that it is not sticky to other part in the machine. just like as you are allowed to buy a sticker of any luxury brand, if you love this brand, you can glue it on any place as you want.

- ALLOWED to sell complete Ultimaker2 if you call it in other name and notes that it is based on ultimaker2 structure.

-  ALLOWED to sell replacement parts, even all of them in one package if they are not assembled into complete machine.

 

So basically you say selling counterfeit products is legal as long as you sell the product and the brand name seperately? This is total non sense... i hope you don't pay your attorney too much (he seems like a fake one )