Dual Nozzle Ultimaker 2

[motters 0]

Hi,

We have a UM2 in our workshop and love it. We getting reliable prints (with a few mods) in PLA, ABS, NYLON from ultra small to prints the size of the bed.

Although the one problem we have is we would like to upgrade to a dual nozzle, for multiple reasons:

 

• To be able to print supports in a different material
  
• Also when our UM2 nozzle blocks it cost ~£30 for a new one (last on lasted 1 print which we think was a blue moon occasion [one off] )
  
• An all metal hot end would allow us to print higher temp materials with maybe more mods to the power supply etc
  

 

It looks like there are one or two opinions / kits for sale and I'm asking are any of them any good? Some I have found are below... any recommendations or advise?

 

• http://www.shop.creatr.it/it/ulticreatr/164-ulticreatr-2x.html
  
• 
  

 

Thanks

Sam

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

You can get the Ultimaker 2+ upgrade kit from an official reseller if you also want to upgrade e.g. the feeder. Otherwise you can get the Olsson block kit from a 3dSolex reseller (smaller investment). Both can be recommended without restrictions. So far, no (third party) dual extrusion kit has been reported to work smoothly from a independent source here on the forum (if I'm wrong, please correct me with a link).

[neotko 1,417]

I think that for dual it's something much more than just adding a second hotend. There's a few good proyects like

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/17656-ultimaker-2-dual-extruder-einstellen

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/10657-a-different-multi-extrusion-approach-um-tool-printhead-changer

So with a um2 you can join that proyects (I specially love the one from @foehnsturm). I know that @crema (first post) it's starting some beta tests of the semi or final version.

So you should keep an eye on that proyects since they are quite advanced and their prints look really good.

[neotko 1,417]

Oh also, https://ultimaker.com/en/community/9390-ultimaker-2-dual-extruder-upgrade-creatr-xlabs

But so far (atm) you can't use heated bed with that one.

So as you can see most proyects are almost there.

[Crema 123]

Hi neotko

I understand this correctly that the heater bed not allowed to use in solving Creatr-xlabs?

[neotko 1,417]

Hi neotko

I understand this correctly that the heater bed not allowed to use in solving Creatr-xlabs?

 

As far as I know they are trying to fix that, but also quite hard fix since I think they use 80W heaters for the hotends so they do brute-force cooling.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Guest

[pluggedIN 1]

I really like the one from Creatr

http://www.ulti.creatr.it/en/2x/index.html

The first part though is the cost of the kit. The second part is the assembly. I would love to see examples of someone who bought the mod, and hear how the installation of it went.

[Shane 3]

Hello pluggedin,

I bought and installed the kit weeks ago.

I'll try to summarize my experience as best as I can.

For starters, still doesn't work. The installation instructions need work. the kit doesn't ship with any. It's all on line. The online documentation for this product say that it ships with every thing you need including the software. Not true in my experience. Online documentation also states that its guaranteed to work. So far it doesn't. What makes this expensive indevour so frustrating is the support. Your emails can takes weeks to be answered. In my mind this product shouldn't be on the market yet. To many problems with no resolution in sight from this company. Buyer beware.

[neotko 1,417]

That's sad @shane

They stayed that their dual kit can't work with the bed, but they actually never clarified that the bed can't work with a single nozzle, that itself IMO sucks big time.

I wonder if there's a workaround, or if they are doing something to fix that FREAKING BIG ISSUE. But the lack of support you are getting from them it's the most concerning issue.

I think the most promising dual for um2 it's the fantastic @Foehnsturm hotend changer, that also has a lot of firmware work around it, and the @Crema water cooling dual hotend. Both are very active members and they actually write a lot on this forums, so you know they are reachable.

[Shane 3]

Hello neotko,

I was wondering, are u using the Creatr firmware or the Marlin? Have you tried another firmware? paid to much for this kit to give up. Determined to make it work with or without Creatr.

I did get a response from a community member that said he got it working with another firmware that he modified. Marlin mega something. He sent me a link to down load but was unsure if it was the right one. It didnt work for my machine. Still had the shut down issue and didn't appear to be configured for Extended+. Need to do some more research. Maybe the issues are all firmware related.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Guest

[neotko 1,417]

Hello neotko,

I was wondering, are u using the Creatr firmware or the Marlin? Have you tried another firmware? paid to much for this kit to give up. Determined to make it work with or without Creatr.

I did get a response from a community member that said he got it working with another firmware that he modified. Marlin mega something. He sent me a link to down load but was unsure if it was the right one. It didnt work for my machine. Still had the shut down issue and didn't appear to be configured for Extended+. Need to do some more research. Maybe the issues are all firmware related.

 

No, I don't use Creatr (don't have it) Creatr offered me a kit to test few months ago but I didn't wanted to compromise the production I had going by modding the machine.

Maybe the firmware that user used its the answer to your problems. Maybe the name was tinkergnome?

Marlin it's the basic firmware that all the ultimakers use, there are mods and versions but there are all the same with different versions/options.

[Shane 3]

Thanks for the response neotko.

[tinkergnome 927]

Maybe the firmware that user used its the answer to your problems. Maybe the name was tinkergnome?

 

No - i'm not involved at all... (on purpose)

As far as i can see, the lack of support is not the only problem... In addition the download links for the firmware are non-functional (online installation guide)

@Shane

You can get some files, if you use the following links. But i have no clue, if this stuff is useful for you...?

For Firefox browsers: with the right mouse button and "Save target as..." (or the similar function on others browsers)

Ulticreatr 2X firmware for Ultimaker 2(+)

http://ulti.creatr.it/en/support/2x/Ultimaker-2-Ulticreatr-2X-v1-1.hex

Ulticreatr 2X firmware for Ultimaker 2 Extended(+)

http://ulti.creatr.it/en/support/2x/Ultimaker-2Extended-Ulticreatr-2X-v1-1.hex

And - as you already know:

No more heated buildplate after you've installed this kit.

I'm not sure, if a bigger power supply is sufficient to solve this problem. The kit includes the bluetape for a reason...

[neotko 1,417]

Yeah I think their method for dual it's quite weird. They use massive heaters and a cooling always active so the hotend inactive colddown fast. I do wonder if that brute force solution doesn't create weird temp fluctuations on a normal print.

About using a bigger powersupply I think it should work because on my umo+ when I used two heaters of 40W I was able to print with the two hotends and use the bed. Ofc I was using umo+ firmware (same board, different firmware). But I have no idea if it's the same to heat two separate elements of 40W than just one of 70W. Definitely IF the bed can't work for at least 1 nozzle, it sucks big time.

[Shane 3]

Thanks for the help.

I already have the hex files and have been through their site many times.

I'm going to try disconnecting the secondary heating elements in both nozzle heating blocks and if this works I'll try another power source.

[Andrey1 17]

Hello, Shane!

Please, tell me did you have positive experience with creatr dual extrusion upgrade kit?

Do you have both extruders work?

Did you solve the problem with the heated bed?

I bought this kit myself, but i steel didn't decide to install it.

[conny_g 251]

Careful with UltiCreatr, they are an unreliable company. Not responding to emails, users report the same, as well missing deliveries. And no posts on their solution for a few months now.

I can't trust them any more.

[Andi_02 0]

Hi there guys,

I'm another one who bought the kit from UltiCreatr and being left outside in the rain in terms of support -DOH!. So, I could get the second nozzle to work by digging the internet and the community pages here about dual extrusion and setting up printer profiles. And - up to my personal standards - it works pretty well except the retractions length and settings.

Some infos:

- UM2+ extended, PLA silver in Extruder 1 and Polysupport in Extruder2

- Firmware tinkergnome 15.09ex

- Cura 2.3.1

Example print: Two rings with a vertical gap in between to be filled with support

When I start the print everything works as expected unless I would like the printer to purge more material before starting the print. The printer begins with the base layer (all 2 nozzles) and then prints with the first ring with the PLA nozzle (2nd nozzle on standby temperature). When the machine switches to the second extruder, the nozzles is heated and then is forwards the material into the nozzle, BUT its in my opinion not the retracted length, but a good amount less, so it takes about one layer of the wipetower and another half to one layer on the model for the material being forwarded enough to give a good extrusion.

So my questions are:

- How can I set the initial prime amount (before the print)?

- What are the effects of "change between extruders" retract, the normal retraction and the "end of print retraction" in the tinkergnome firmware (do they influence each other - like "change between extruders" retraction of e.g. 15mm and then normal retraction forwarding with 6.5mm?)

- I tried to fix that with the "extra prime amount after retraction" in Cura. That didn't work. Only big knobs of material after retraction :( Suggestions?

- I had to inverse two cablesof the stepper for the 2nd feeder to make it rotate in the

right direction. Can that be a cause of the problem. (I don't think so, the problem is with PLA the same bit not that bad).

I would appreciate your support very very much.

I'm thorugh a whole weekend tuning and testing .json-files to get the machine

going and I need it as soon as possible for commercial use

[Andrey1 17]

Hi, guys!

I'd like to share my experience in double extrusion on Ultimaker 2. Maybe it will be useful.

Ok. Several month ago i bought Ulticreatr 2X. I knew it was not good (according to some replies here), but desire to upgrade my printer and to make double coloured print prevailed. After it was delivered, I decided to postpone installation. Designers of the Ulticreatr 2X said that its feature didn't allow to use heated bed. So, i decided to study this problem first.

I don't want to describe all my way to double extrusion. It was thorny. Besides heated bed issue, neither firmware nor Cura modifications, presented by Ulticreatr 2X designers worked.

So, I searched decisions in the community. And I have found it.

The first it was firmware. Tinkergnome, thank you very much for your work. It is extremely useful and works excellent!!!

The second was slicer. I tried to modify Cura 2.3.1 as it was described by Ulticreatr team, but it was all for nothing. Then I tried to modify it according to this topics, but still without success!

And then, thanks to Crema I tried Cura 15.04!

Today I printed my first double colloured model!

So, Ultimaker 2 + Ultikreatr 2X + Tinkergnome firmware + Cura 15.04 = Dual extrusion

Thanks everyone!

[shingabiss 0]

Hi, guys!

I'd like to share my experience in double extrusion on Ultimaker 2. Maybe it will be useful.

Ok. Several month ago i bought Ulticreatr 2X. I knew it was not good (according to some replies here), but desire to upgrade my printer and to make double coloured print prevailed. After it was delivered, I decided to postpone installation. Designers of the Ulticreatr 2X said that its feature didn't allow to use heated bed. So, i decided to study this problem first.

I don't want to describe all my way to double extrusion. It was thorny. Besides heated bed issue, neither firmware nor Cura modifications, presented by Ulticreatr 2X designers worked.

So, I searched decisions in the community. And I have found it.

The first it was firmware. Tinkergnome, thank you very much for your work. It is extremely useful and works excellent!!!

The second was slicer. I tried to modify Cura 2.3.1 as it was described by Ulticreatr team, but it was all for nothing. Then I tried to modify it according to this topics, but still without success!

And then, thanks to Crema I tried Cura 15.04!

Today I printed my first double colloured model!

 

 

So, Ultimaker 2 + Ultikreatr 2X + Tinkergnome firmware + Cura 15.04 = Dual extrusion

Thanks everyone!

 

Thanks a lot for the post and info.

One thing I'm wondering about is how to get the nozzles even with regard to the build plate?