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neuronex

Simplify3d Top Layer quality

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Hi,

[Machine: UM2+]

[MATERIAL: PLA]

So I switched over to Simplify3d (V. 3.1) in order to get more control over support structures, process settings etc. The biggest problem I'm having is the Top Layer quality is usually quite bad. I've tried:

Adding more/less Top Layers

Reducing print speed for the top layers

Some slight temperature adjustments

All my prints with S3D thus far have had an infill of 60-90% and always come out bad. CURA prints quality prints every time.

CURA PRINT:

cura.jpg.d6621561b9e23a7c6f81f76261576fcf.jpg

S3D PRINT:

IMAG2377.jpg.8c243978f525df9420bbdd03e9c94dcb.jpg

The S3D print hardly has the hole features which are clearly visible in the CURA print, S3D Top Layer print is also not as smooth as the CURA print - there's often visible layers.  Anyone else had these problems?

Here's the FFF profile: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=09923183358899329525

cura.jpg.d6621561b9e23a7c6f81f76261576fcf.jpg

IMAG2377.jpg.8c243978f525df9420bbdd03e9c94dcb.jpg

Edited by Guest
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There's quite a few basic stuff wrong here... Sorry to be blunt but

5a332151ec06b_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_41_04.thumb.png.364d4405f36b8bed50147081e2252c15.png

Retraction distance 1mm only? For PLA Cura does 4.5mm as standard

Extrusion Width, remove the auto, change it to 0.80mm (same as nozzle) or lower (0.75mm should give you a better look, but I personally only use lower nozzle size to adjust it. 'Auto' doesn't do anything auto, it could be nice if it where a real auto settting, but isnt.

Retraction speed 40mm/s, cura uses 25mm/s as default. That might be destroying your filament.

5a3321520ebf8_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_41_32.thumb.png.1bf10978c3518bb7d5d2f2b7c5e96312.png

Outline overlap to 32%, that will only make a mess, more than 20% it's too much. I use this setting to play with some experiments, as soon you go beyond 25% you get blobs and overextrusion on the same spot that makes bad quality. Cura default uses 15%

Infill extrusion width 125%. Ok Because the 'Auto' of the previous image you are extruding 0.96mm for a 0.8 nozzle, and that 0.96 will get multiplied by 125% (a 25% extra) making a width of 1.2mm for a 0.8 nozzle. That can't happen without more heat, less speed, or adjusting pretty much everything.

5a332152c7d1a_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_41_49.thumb.png.1ba5052e649c5de34a7531133f6ed572.png

Blip fans, disable that, will create a small slowdown on the machine of 500 millisecs, your um2 fans already have a kickstart by firmware.

Read on S3D forums about fan overrides and how to tune it properly. You have a 'maximum cooling fan to 30%' there, and that affects directly with the fan speed you are setting to 100%.

And the biggest issue I see here

5a33215308cd7_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_42_19.thumb.png.ef3f77d3e8a4e1a49b71092c1a520eef.png

You have set minimum travel for retraction to 0.02mm. This means that it can do a retraction, if so he desires (and s3d loves retractions) almost every time he wants, your um2 2.85 filament will get chew like gum. Cura default it's around 2.00mm, you could even go 1.50mm. For my 1.75mm system I can go 0.50mm as standard, but I use a different feeder.

Also, just as a general rule, S3D it's much more complex than Cura. There are tons of settings that interconnect.

As a general rule before touching anything on S3D any user should read the FFF settings window on S3D forum:

https://forum.simplify3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2367

Final tip

5a33215323312_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_56_07.thumb.png.dbd75e62b049e2e546c472a8c8cf70e0.png

Change the S3D from mm/m to mm/s, so you have the same measure of speed that Cura uses, otherwise you are mixing minutes with seconds. This helps to adjust a profile that works on Cura to S3D and start tuning up special settings.

5a332151ec06b_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_41_04.thumb.png.364d4405f36b8bed50147081e2252c15.png

5a3321520ebf8_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_41_32.thumb.png.1bf10978c3518bb7d5d2f2b7c5e96312.png

5a332152c7d1a_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_41_49.thumb.png.1ba5052e649c5de34a7531133f6ed572.png

5a33215308cd7_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_42_19.thumb.png.ef3f77d3e8a4e1a49b71092c1a520eef.png

5a33215323312_Capturadepantalla2016-09-14alas9_56_07.thumb.png.dbd75e62b049e2e546c472a8c8cf70e0.png

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Thanks for the detailed reply - much appreciated.

Unfortunately the machine has been printing non-stop since we bought it & I haven't had the kind of time I'd like with a few calibration blocks trying different settings. I was admittedly in a bit of a rush to use S3D :).

Will report back once I've had a chance to go through everything and run a few tests.

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Auto' doesn't do anything auto, it could be nice if it where a real auto settting, but isnt.

Strange how on AUTO it seems to make the line width more than the nozzle size (about 1.2x), whereas CURA typically sets it just below the nozzle diameter:

CURA:

curaline.png.c47c10492967fd90349fab161e5dbd12.png

Will play around with it.

curaline.png.c47c10492967fd90349fab161e5dbd12.png

Edited by Guest

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So I've have had some nice prints from S3D, however I still get some top layer issues not being 100% solid, especially around the holes.

CURA print is almost solid:

cura1.thumb.jpg.7257fc2001f7ebd49a652b007f73d21f.jpg

S3D print has gaps around the holes:

simply1.thumb.jpg.a4df08e3f1c0750b2bfbecbc51867dd7.jpg

Both printed with 100% infill.

Have tried slight adjustments to extrusion multiplier without any luck.

FFF profile: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=03020330159881776413

cura1.thumb.jpg.7257fc2001f7ebd49a652b007f73d21f.jpg

simply1.thumb.jpg.a4df08e3f1c0750b2bfbecbc51867dd7.jpg

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Adjust the nozzle extrusion width to 0.35 like cura does. Sorry really busy week I can't check your fff yet

:)

It's been at 0.35 all along. I'm trying another process now with it at 0.4 as well as increasing the outline overlap. Will see what happens.

Edited by Guest

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Yea I see infill overlap you have it at 12, less than 15% is problematic. If the piece is too small and you want to focus on top layer try 18-20

Also play with 'Allow gap fill when necessary' on Advanced. Default on S3D is 10%, but I play with this a lot to avoid gaps. Try to crack it up to 50% to see on the gcode preview the differences, then you can see if it's too much or too little. But mind that this option is directly connected to the Infill overlap setting. Both work together. Also the 'Only retract when crossing open spaces' will make 'marks' on the top layers just like cura. Specially since you disabled 'Avoid crossing outline for travel movements'

If you want clear top layers you can, DISABLE 'only retract when crossing spaces' OR enable 'Avoid crossing outline' But if you have one enabled and the other disabled it will leave marks and strings everywhere. Cleanest option is a mix of both, but depends on the model.

Also you have travel move to 120mm/s, if you have disabled 'Avoid crossing' you can move it up to 150 at least (bare minimum). If you activate Avoid Crossing and you have poor bed adhesion, then is better with just 120.

Other option that is important, on the INFILL tap. You have 'Minimum infill length' to 3,00mm. This means that any area smaller than that wont get infill, leaving gaps.

So... Focus on playing with:

- Infill - Outline Overlap

- Infill - Minimum infill length

- Advanced - Allow gap fill

- Advanced - Disable Only retract while..

- Advanced - Enable or test Avoid crossing... (I only use this when I have a drippi filament like wood, etc).

- Advanced - Force retraction between layers makes for a cleaner Z, without this is quite easy to have Z mark. If you use this and also change on Layer - Starts points to Random, that will generate a cleaner object.

Have fun!

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to download my personal S3D fff profile. (click on the 3 dots on the top right and select download to grab it)

Good luck!

 

Thanks :).

Your prints came out with a nice solid top layer.

Going to try it as soon as the machine is finished it's current print.

(I see you've set your build volume / table size larger. Any reason for that?)

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