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Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

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Posted · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding
9 hours ago, inventabuild said:

 

 

Using a 0.4 nozzle with 0.1 setting. For the final production used 0.15 for speed

 

2. No, auto setting is the most useless setting of s3d. Choose correct nozzle size and change nozzle extrusion width to 0.1 or as needed

 

3. Extactly that :D

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Posted (edited) · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

Though this thread has been around for a long time, reading it today (for the first time), prompted a few thoughts.  I'm not a super writer, so please forgive if the tone of this sounds like something from a church pulpit.  It's the best I can do with the brain cells I have left.

 

First, neotko.  Genius. 

 

Second.  Ultimaker. -

 

The approach taken is understandable,  Now, you seemed taken aback at the reaction of a creator when they find out indirectly that their concept is being implemented commercially, albeit with a modified algorithm.  Their reaction is as clear to me as yours. 

 

There are no rocks really worth throwing here, but if I can add some perspective.  From what I have seen here in my short time, the people who invest in equipment at the level that Ultimaker produces tend to be makers at the high end of hobbiest up to high end professional.    After all, this is not some ali express kit.  

 

People in this community create a lot of stuff.  Some of it is for sharing and open source, but some of it is how we choose to make our living.  Whether one chooses to licence their IP, or add an open source creation to their CV is a personal choice, one that should be the creator's alone. 

 

Sadly,  the notion of IP and patent poaching is a real threat.  I've been hit on both fronts.  Patent poaching has cost me 5 figures in the past two years alone.   In another case, I have had my  open source technical papers co-opted by a government department and published as their own without acknowledgement, even to the point where they decided the material should be protected, so I was approached by one of their cube farm residents to pull down my document from my file server,  as it conflicted with their 'original'. Hmmmm.

 

I am certain that others on this forum have had some level of similar experience.

 

One only has to get bitten once to have a heightened awareness of what happens when an idea is being picked up without attribution. it's not so much how it starts, but where it leads, that is the kicker.   Good intention or not, the impact can sometimes be equal.  In this case, I can completely see how this evolved and why.  No one intended harm, but that's not to say it didn't occur anyway.   Is there something we can do differently next time ?  Do we want there to be another creative 'next time'?  I sure hope so.  If so, we need to make that a positive thing.

 

The sharing of ideas is good for us all.  Ironing (son of neosanding) is a great example of how this works.  That said, it seems completely reasonable to me that we all take the simple step of acknowledging the originator in the creative process, as soon as we decide to take their idea further.  A private message is often enough, public thanks can be timed if the result comes to fruition, but that initial note changes the entire context from appropriation to collaboration.

 

In time, the respect and IP protection that we offer one another will benefit every single one of us, from high end hobbiest all the way up to the creative team at Ultimaker, who, it seems to me, have some geniuses of their own.  Maybe it should be part of the agreement when you sign up to join this forum.  Who knows?

 

Off my soap box now.

 

John

Edited by JohnInOttawa
Replaced some typos and poor wording with worse typos and worse wording....
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Posted · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

Neotko

 

do you think this process would work on a sphere I am printing at 0.12 layer height and would like the sphere which is 40mm diameter be look right, at the moment the last 10mm aprox  (in height) the layers are shifting (opening up) see below, do you think your process would help in this situation

 

image.thumb.png.300dd6b13852d234d624d35fc2774430.png

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Posted · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding
1 hour ago, bob-hepple said:

Neotko

 

do you think this process would work on a sphere I am printing at 0.12 layer height and would like the sphere which is 40mm diameter be look right, at the moment the last 10mm aprox  (in height) the layers are shifting (opening up) see below, do you think your process would help in this situation

 

image.thumb.png.300dd6b13852d234d624d35fc2774430.png

 

Hard to tell. It might do the B matte but with so many toplayers the results will be so-so. And for the top-top of the circles probably the best for quality would be just to lower layer height on the last millimeters.

 

I been trying to make a neosanding for layer to layer but I keep postponing it for other stuff. So much work lately and very little time to actually do ??‍♂️

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Posted (edited) · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

Neosanding is nice when a matte finish is desired.  When printing with PLA Is there a technique for making a shiny finish either with the toolhead or a secondary operation like wiping with wd40 or something else that will give a lasting shiny finish in neosanded areas?

Edited by inventabuild

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Posted (edited) · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding
8 hours ago, inventabuild said:

Neosanding is nice when a matte finish is desired.  When printing with PLA Is there a technique for making a shiny finish either with the toolhead or a secondary operation like wiping with wd40 or something else that will give a lasting shiny finish in neosanded areas?

 

There’s a way, but I haven’t fully tested it yet. But it would involve a lot of processes. I’m waiting for the new e3d super-non-stick nozzles since it involves sanding and reprinting a half size height last layer.

 

Anyhow my main focus right now is to remove the print lines from the bottom layer, but for that I’m getting mixed results atm. 

 

Also, very little time lately!

Edited by neotko

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Posted · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

Neotko 

 

have you had problems with the sanding in S3D 4.01 I am trying this for the first time so bare with me but I cannot get the process consistent in the preparation stage I have 4 processes 

1st real print 

2nd sanding

3rd real print 

4th sanding

when I preview 1,2,3 all there but 4th not there when I preview 3,4 all there ??

 

I have set all the parameter as per instructions only bit that is flakey (on my side obviously) is the way I am pushing s3d to do sanding layer 

1st real print start at 0 then stops at 1.55 layer height 0.16

2nd sanding starts at 1.60 layer height 0.10 

id I don't specify these heights I cannot get the sanding layer to preview??

 

any help appreciated

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Posted (edited) · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

My understanding is that sanding s/b done at the same height as the just completed layer, so if 1st real print stops at 1.55, then first sanding should stop at 1.55 also.

 

The reason I mention this is because for all of S3D's greatness, sometimes if things don't line up just right with multiple processes (like your example of a 0.05 mm gap between layers of step 1 (print) and step 2 (sand)), then S3D can get a little quirky on rare occasion.  It might have nothing to do w/ your situation, but if all else fails it might be worth a shot.

Edited by inventabuild

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Posted · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

hi thanks for the reply inventabuild,,

 

I did a print and th only way I managed to get the sanding layer was 

 

1st Real print stop at 1.55

 

2nd sanding start at 1.55 stop at 1.60

for the sanding I set up the profile as per Neotkos instruction ect but there was hardly any sanding on surface a few bits that just made the print feel ruff, Obviously im going wrong some where ???

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Posted (edited) · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

Your 2nd step "2nd Sanding" should have the same start, stop values and layer height as the last layer that was printed. For example if you're printing 10 layers at 0.10 layer height then your last (printed layer) start value = 0.9, stop value = 1.0 and layer height is 0.1 mm.

 

Thus, your first sanding layer would have a start value of 0.9 and a stop value of 1.0 with a 0.1 mm layer height. This will allow the hot end to neosand off any jutting imperfections.

Edited by inventabuild
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Posted · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

inventabuild

 

again thanks for you help I now understand??? I was close but obviously my heights and start stop values were very tight, I did not get the layer heights right on the sanding layer and was only taking 0.05 off which is why the sanding layer felt ruff??? I have re done my calcs using your descriptions. so at a layer height of 0.16 I should see a difference,,, Thank you, I switched to Cura 3.2 to try the Ironing but I haven't touched Cura for about 3 years now so completely lost ??? couldn't even find the ironing 

 

Thanks!!!

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Posted · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding
1 hour ago, bob-hepple said:

inventabuild

 

again thanks for you help I now understand??? I was close but obviously my heights and start stop values were very tight, I did not get the layer heights right on the sanding layer and was only taking 0.05 off which is why the sanding layer felt ruff??? I have re done my calcs using your descriptions. so at a layer height of 0.16 I should see a difference,,, Thank you, I switched to Cura 3.2 to try the Ironing but I haven't touched Cura for about 3 years now so completely lost ??? couldn't even find the ironing 

 

Thanks!!!

 

Hi @bob-hepple. It seems that I had the same issue, I was trying with 0.05mm on my top layers. Cura changes a lot during these times, I still using S3D v4 but I wanna try some stable and recent version to test neosanding (ironing) and adaptive layer high, looks like an awesome feature. Keep us updated with your tests...

 

Thank you @inventabuild for this explanation.

 

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Posted · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding
14 hours ago, bob-hepple said:

I switched to Cura 3.2 to try the Ironing but I haven't touched Cura for about 3 years now so completely lost ??? couldn't even find the ironing

If you click on "Custom" after Print Setup on the right side of the screen, and then type in the search bar "iron", then you should find some settings.

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Posted · Neosanding - Automatic Layer Sanding

ok I setup the processes using the wright values ie stop start layers

process 1 actual print

process 2 sanding

process 3 actual print

process 4 sanding

when I preview all processes sanding on process two is before process 1 final layer and message comes up (see screen shot) I carry on and the final process 4 is correct,,

 

is there a way (simple) to force the process 2 to initiate correctly without editing all the gcode

 

 

screen 1.jpg

screen2.jpg

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