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ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

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Posted (edited) · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Hello  Forum! I want to ask if there will be other nozzle sizes for the ultimaker 3...

and what about the cores? do they have like a teflon coupler like the ultimaker 2+?

what about materials like copper fill and bronze fill? no prob with that?

 

the spot with the red arrow in the picture is made of super thin metal... the teflon (not sure it's actually Teflon, but something similar) sits higher

core-BB-PVA.thumb.png.244f4552dccffdae265228e92220f56f.png

core-BB-PVA.thumb.png.244f4552dccffdae265228e92220f56f.png

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Looks like using an Olsson block in each core would have worked, so people could screw different nozzles...

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Do the cores need to wipe before nozzle change? Or is the low/high temperature reached fast enough?

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

"First, lets tease them all with actually PRINTING that we are going to have a dual extruder for the Ultimaker 2+ and get them to buy one. (go ahead, check the forum. It was in there) Then, most of the way through, lets just tell them we are scrapping the idea for good.

I call bullshit... there has never been any mention of a official Dual Extrusion Upgrade for the UM2+, the announcement that there would be no upgrade was published a whole year before the UM2+ was even announced, more exactly here: https://ultimaker.com/en/community/10344-company-update

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Looks like using an Olsson block in each core would have worked, so people could screw different nozzles...

 

Yeah, but then again, it would also destroy any form of automated intelligence with leveling and performance, tuning, leakage etc. Ruining the reliable product.

This is made for power users and businesses, keep that in mind. 24/7 uptime without maintenance or calibration is what they are aiming for. With 1 core you can print different materials in sequence without changing. From what I've heard the cores actually outperform expectations. It might just not be a cheap hobbyist printer.

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

 

no "light dual extrusion upgrade kit" for my ultimaker 2+ I bought one month ago,:( very dissapointed

 

I understand that disappointment but I think that would be a huge upgrade. I have a different mindset though as I've had my 2+ since February and not just for a month. The 3 is an additional $1000 over the 2+ so that is a pretty big difference for the additional features. It's not really in the same pricing category.

 

As I wrote down, I expect at least somewhat about dual extrusion with the ultimaker2+ from the ultimaker inventor. What is presented is somewhat very complex and innovative (camera, auto calibrating, removable head, etc..) and I think it is a nice machine but too expensive for some people like me. How is it possible to get such an experience of dual extrusion and doing noting more for all the customers who put confidence in the research Team and bought the ultimaker 2/2+ ? I read for years about that dual extruder extension (which is proposed by an independant factory http://ulti.creatr.it/en/2x/index.html ) but I only want the ultimaker Team experience. That was the goal, that was the opportunity of launching a light dual extruder for the previous series, I'm not talking about a "changing your ultimaker2+ into an ultimaker3", I'm talking about an simplier addons  just enough for a "we didn't forget our supporters who make this new printer possible ".

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Posted (edited) · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Also if the Nozzle Core has a PCB to identify it, then it seems unlikely that just disassembling it and replacing the nozzle with a 3rd party one will be enough, since the PCB will need to be updated with the nozzle dimension.

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Posted (edited) · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Looks like using an Olsson block in each core would have worked, so people could screw different nozzles...

 

There is actually some problems with it, more exactly that there is nothing holding the block radially, so you would damage the heat break the first time you tried to swap the nozzle if you just added a olsson block to the current design, it would also ruin the whole concept with that the core knows what nozzle diameter it is and can report it back to Cura...

That said, i would really like Ultimaker to release a "Tinker Core" for advanced users with a slightly different design and a olsson block, where you had to set the nozzle size manually on the display and get to use regular Olsson style nozzles.

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

That said, i would really like Ultimaker to release a "Tinker Core" for advanced users with a slightly different design and a olsson block, where you had to set the nozzle size manually on the display and get to use regular Olsson style nozzles.

 

Don't think that will ever happen... but a 3th party filling the hacker gap seems pretty likely...

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Posted (edited) · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

I also find it unlikely, that does not keep me from wishing ;)

The cores are actually pretty complex, so manufacturing 3rd party cores from scratch would be a pretty huge investment for the 3rd party. (i am talking hardware wise here)

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Posted (edited) · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Nothing on the printer firmware is 'lock' if you insert a non ultimaker chip it could be really easy to just change the python program on the board to make it work. That's the beauty of open source stuff.

Also all the information about the chip info is inside the firmware and you could (I did) read all the information about how they store or read that chip. You can even make a new 'core' called 'ZZ' or wherever you want and add it to the firmeare so is recognized. So I don't think that third parties would have much trouble making different cores.

The hard part is making what ultimaker did, profiles that work for materials with settings planned for each quality finish. But third parties probably might not expend time doing that the users. Ultimaker wants to have a machine that works, and they don't lock the user.

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

I'm not talking about a "changing your ultimaker2+ into an ultimaker3", I'm talking about an simplier addons  just enough for a "we didn't forget our supporters who make this new printer possible ".

 

nobody EVER promised dual extrusion for the UM2+, but you may get what you want anyhow.....

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/23123-made-by-the-new-ultimaker?page=2#reply-159702

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Don't think that will ever happen...  but a 3th party filling the hacker gap seems pretty likely...

Especially with such a gap between £7.50 for a nozzle and £99 for a core - that is a big opportunity to bring back the affordable flexibility we currently enjoy.

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

I also find it unlikely, that does not keep me from wishing ;)

The cores are actually pretty complex, so manufacturing 3rd party cores from scratch would be a pretty huge investment for the 3rd party. (i am talking hardware wise here)

the more realistic idea would probably be a refurb kit, or even just a nozzle.... I'm pretty sure the brave and careful among us can replace a nozzle. But on the other hand most ultimakers are sold to companies, who most likely don't care about a few 100 euros for a couple of new cores

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

But on the other hand most ultimakers are sold to companies, who most likely don't care about a few 100 euros for a couple of new cores

Yes they'll care. Especially when you look at how many cores you need on hand to print different materials, and at different nozzle diameters (If UM release them)

I run 2 printers 24/7 at my company and swapping them looks convenient, but a complete stock of nozzle cores x diameters would cost more than the printer for all the materials we stock.

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Yes they'll care. Especially when you look at how many cores you need on hand to print different materials, and at different nozzle diameters (If UM release them)

Luckily we live in a pretty free part of the world, and we can make or own decisions... you can keep on using UM2+'s there not discontinued ... do you really need to print dual extrusion on all nozzle types and sizes? And the core's are pretty flexible, I've done PLA/Nylon/CPE/ABS/XT all on the same core with no issue's....

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

I really do like the core's (I was in the test group) they are really versatile. The temp goes to 280c. I printed PLA/ABS/CPE/NYLON all without atomic in between and had no problem.

so youre telling us you can use the same CORE for any kind of material without risking having a clog on it?? i use a nozzle per material and colour....(and size)

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

so youre telling us you can use the same CORE for any kind of material without risking having a clog on it?? i use a nozzle per material and colour....(and size)

At the moment there are 2 types, one for PVA (the BB core) and one for other materials (the AA) core. Yes you can use the AA for all the types I mentioned. I have not had a clog during my beta testing.

My own strategy will be to keep a separate set for PLA (low temp) and ABS (high temp) as you always have more risk of using PLA after ABS simply because of the low temp. But I will just mix ABS/CPE/Nylon/XT on the same core...

And for now I'll keep the abrasive stuff for the UM2+.....

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

But on the other hand most ultimakers are sold to companies, who most likely don't care about a few 100 euros for a couple of new cores

Yes they'll care. Especially when you look at how many cores you need on hand to print different materials, and at different nozzle diameters (If UM release them)

I run 2 printers 24/7 at my company and swapping them looks convenient, but a complete stock of nozzle cores x diameters would cost more than the printer for all the materials we stock.

As mentioned before, you don't need multiple nozzles for different materials, it can handle them all without atomics in-between.

The heat zone is also smaller the Olsson so there will be less left over plastic on a material change. And if you want a clean start then just do atomic when changing.

Also stainless nozzles suck. Hardened steel is better and it looks like Ruby is far superior again.

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

I beta tested the um3 for the last 4 weeks and it works quite well.  I took my core apart but it is INCREDIBLY easy to destroy.  Even just loosening the very first screw to loosen the heater will very likely destroy it.  The heat break is steel but only 250 microns thick (about 2 sheets of paper).  Erin at fbrc8 already broke one when putting a core back together.

Having said that - with proper training (e.g. youtube video) one can learn to take it apart safely like I did and change nozzles.  But it's not simple - for me at least after doing it 3 times it takes about 10 minutes.  You actually have to take it completely apart to safely get it back together unless you have very specialized jigs which I don't.

I also agree that it's really not necessary to have different cores for pla, abs, nylon, cpe.  But pva - that's a special material which needs it's own core.

Also if you already have a um2 or um2+ and only need to print with one nozzle then stick with the um2.  The printers come with 2 AA cores and 1 BB core (for PVA).

Changing nozzles on um3 (without changing cores) kind of sucks because if you change the nozzle without changing the core you might have to recalibrate core 1 Z, core 2 Z, and X,Y separation between the 2 nozzles.  But if you have lots of cores then you don't really have to recalibrate each time as the um3 keeps track of if you already calibrated a particular combination of cores.

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Posted (edited) · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

Hopefully 3dsolex will come up with some lower temperature cores (pla only?) that have an olsson block and are very strong such that you can easily change nozzles. Hey @swordriff - are you listening?

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

I just got up, and the first thing I did was check out the UM3.

And MY GOD there are so many new features......

Wifi, onboard camera, filament sensor in the spool holder, light/stiffer build plate, larger build volume, auto bed leveling, dual extruders with a lifting mechanism, increased temp. range, interchangeable hotends with special internal structures, hotend pcb's for recognition, status lights......

And then comes the realization that I will never need half of those features.

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Posted (edited) · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

"First, lets tease them all with actually PRINTING that we are going to have a dual extruder for the Ultimaker 2+ and get them to buy one. (go ahead, check the forum. It was in there) Then, most of the way through, lets just tell them we are scrapping the idea for good.

I call bullshit... there has never been any mention of a official Dual Extrusion Upgrade for the UM2+, the announcement that there would be no upgrade was published a whole year before the UM2+ was even announced, more exactly here: https://ultimaker.com/en/community/10344-company-update

Well, you can cuss and swear all you want (kinda childish on a public forum) but you can NOT deny they were all caught up in the dual extruder for the 2+. Sure I could try to search the forums for exactly what I read a LONG time ago but why waste my time? Doesn't look like they are going to do anything about it anyway. (sigh)

Sure the 2+ prints GREAT. As long as everything you want to print needs zero supports. Unfortunately, as a product designer for going on 11 years now, there are extremely few designs that do not require supports. Yes, I should have held out and saved up more for an industrial printer, but there was so much hype about this being compared to those, and who needs those when you got this and so forth.

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Posted (edited) · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)
you can NOT deny they were all caught up in the dual extruder for the 2+. Sure I could try to search the forums for exactly what I read a LONG time ago but why waste my time? Doesn't look like they are going to do anything about it anyway.

I know for a fact that there has never been such plans from Ultimaker and i have never seen anything like the things you are talking about at the forum. If you look at the back of your UM2+ you will realise that the mounting hole for the 2nd extruder that were on the UM2 is removed at the UM2+, also the 2nd hole in the top plastic part was removed on the UM2+, so it is pretty easy to see the evidence that the plans they had for Dual extrusion on the UM2 was abandoned before the UM2+ went into production.

Also, a LONG time ago? The UM2+ was released in January 2016... if it was any longer ago than that, it was not about the + model. (and if we are talking about the time before January 2015 and the announcement i linked in my post, then yes there were a lot of discussion about a dual extrusion upgrade for the original UM2, but never for the + model wich were released much later)

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Posted · ULTIMAKER 3 (DUAL EXTRUSION?)

The main things I'm interested in is the new, stiffer bed and some form of dual extrusion.

If anyone wants to do some UMO+ hacking, let me know!

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