UM3 glass buildplate adhesion issues... Buildtak with auto-leveling?

[RayvenMaker 1]

Hey Ultimaker!

I just got my UM3 4 days ago after having a UM2 for 2 years, and printed out the Ultimaker Robot with no problem. After that though, nothing I could do would predictably stick prints (ABS or PLA) to the glass buildplate—not even PVA will stick. I've tried the glue that was included, wider brims, fully PVA first layers, and even the dreaded raft. Nothing will stick... unless I get lucky. Sometimes, the print will randomly stick like a charm to the plain glass buildplate. And nothing I do can replicate these lucky strikes. What happened? And what should I do?

That brings me to my next question: Can you use Buildtak with the new active leveling in place? I don't want to start leveling manually again (one of the main reasons I bought it), and flipping the buildplate over every time it levels seems a bit convoluted. (yes, I read this thread... I wanted to start a new one.) I know that with the Printrbot Simple, you can adjust the offset from the buildplate in Pronterface... is there a similar feature with the UM3? If not, what would be a good work-around for this? Thanks guys.

Make On!

RayvenMaker

[fbrc8-erin 316]

Hi, RayvenMaker,

I haven't tried BuildTak with the UM3 yet, but there were a couple of other things I found useful for UM3 adhesion. The capacitive sensor board on the underside of the printhead is fairly sensitive. I found my results improved after I wiped the board down with alcohol and a paper towel. You can see it here in this photo:

The other thing I found really useful for UM3 adhesion, I think because of the increased fan power, was using the glue stick and a wet paper towel to have a very thin wash of glue on the areas of the bed I was printing on. I haven't attempted trying hairy spray instead of the glue yet; I'm having really excellent results with the glue on everything from 1 hour prints to 44 hour prints.

[RayvenMaker 1]

The other thing I found really useful for UM3 adhesion, I think because of the increased fan power, was using the glue stick and a wet paper towel to have a very thin wash of glue on the areas of the bed I was printing on. I haven't attempted trying hairy spray instead of the glue yet; I'm having really excellent results with the glue on everything from 1 hour prints to 44 hour prints.

Thanks for the tip, Erin. I tried it out last night, and it worked great... for the PVA and PLA (if I'm ever printing in those materials, your tip will be a lifesaver). ABS was a different matter—the parts would get about 12 layers in, and then pop off the buildplate. :/ Is there any way to make the brim bond better to the print? Or just a way to make the ABS stick better?

And if there isn't, then how could you get the Buildtak to work? IRobertI, any ideas?

[tomnagel 128]

The Auto leveling has seen limited testing with BuildTak, tape and avery sheets. In those limited tests we saw no negative effects.

If you need ABS in your application, try Ultimaker ABS. Bed adhesion is almost too good, that's why we tell users to use a glue stick. The glue forms a breaking layer, preventing chips of glass to break from your printbed!

PLA and PVA should stick to your bed very well. Make sure the bed is clean!

[RayvenMaker 1]

The Auto leveling has seen limited testing with BuildTak, tape and avery sheets. In those limited tests we saw no negative effects.

If you need ABS in your application, try Ultimaker ABS. Bed adhesion is almost too good, that's why we tell users to use a glue stick. The glue forms a breaking layer, preventing chips of glass to break from your printbed!

PLA and PVA should stick to your bed very well. Make sure the bed is clean!

Ok, that sounds good then. I'll go ahead and get some BuildTak and just see what happens. Just a question though: in your tests, does the nozzle melt through the BuildTak so it can touch the glass for auto-leveling? Or does it just touch the surface?

Thanks for the info on the Ultimaker ABS—once I get through my 2+ kilos of ABS from Matterhackers, I'll switch to the Ultimaker filament. I never thought ABS could be so enthusiastic about adhesion.

[fbrc8-erin 316]

The other thing to keep in mind with the ABS is that the fans on the UM3 are more powerful than the UM2, so you may want to check out your fan settings if it's got too much cooling/shrinking.

[tomnagel 128]

Ok, that sounds good then. I'll go ahead and get some BuildTak and just see what happens. Just a question though: in your tests, does the nozzle melt through the BuildTak so it can touch the glass for auto-leveling? Or does it just touch the surface?

 

The Active Leveling measurement procedure raises the bed until it detects hitting the nozzle. The first probe with each nozzle is done with a hot nozzle, so that the measurement stays fairly accurate even when there is ooze on the nozzle (result is better with a clean nozzle).

So damage to the buildtak because the nozzle is hot is very well possible, but has not been researched by R&D (yet). You could of course disable Active Leveling, but my recommendation is to use materials which don't need BuildTak.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Guest

[Waternut13134 1]

Another thing you can do that others have done is flip the glass plate when the bed is leveling and ounces it's done just flip it over again to the buildtak side

[RayvenMaker 1]

Ok, I got the BuildTak, and the nozzle doesn't melt through it. score The only thing is, I can't seem to get PVA to stick. I haven't tried to put glue on the BuildTak (that just seems wrong), so I'm coming here for advice. What should I do? Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks.

[Waternut13134 1]

Ok, I got the BuildTak, and the nozzle doesn't melt through it. score The only thing is, I can't seem to get PVA to stick. I haven't tried to put glue on the BuildTak (that just seems wrong), so I'm coming here for advice. What should I do? Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks.

 

Have you played with the z offset at all?

[tomnagel 128]

Ok, I got the BuildTak, and the nozzle doesn't melt through it. score The only thing is, I can't seem to get PVA to stick. I haven't tried to put glue on the BuildTak (that just seems wrong), so I'm coming here for advice. What should I do? Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks.

 

Why would you combine PVA with BuildTak? PVA and PLA stick to glass just fine.

[RayvenMaker 1]

Have you played with the z offset at all?

 

Thanks, Waternut! No, I haven't. Can't find the feature... I'm using Cura 2.3.1. Should I go ahead and mess with the g-code? Or can I just adjust the Initial Layer Height?

[RayvenMaker 1]

Why would you combine PVA with BuildTak? PVA and PLA stick to glass just fine.

 

Thanks for the reply! I'm using ABS with the PVA, not PLA. The ABS wouldn't stick to plain glass, or glue, so I switched to what worked for me before—BuildTak. But PVA doesn't seem to stick to it, so I'm pretty much stuck. Either the ABS or PVA won't stick, either way... unless we can find out what's wrong.

[tomnagel 128]

Thanks for the reply! I'm using ABS with the PVA, not PLA. The ABS wouldn't stick to plain glass, or glue, so I switched to what worked for me before—BuildTak. But PVA doesn't seem to stick to it, so I'm pretty much stuck. Either the ABS or PVA won't stick, either way... unless we can find out what's wrong.

 

The combination ABS and PVA will not work reliably. The 2 materials simply don't stick well enough to each other, even if you would manage to stick both to your build plate.

Ofcourse in some cases you can get it to work. For example, if you need to support a piece of overhang, which is connected to the rest of the object. But if a piece of the object needs a start on the PVA, you have to have a build material that sticks well to PVA. And ABS does not do that.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Guest

[RayvenMaker 1]

The combination ABS and PVA will not work reliably. The 2 materials simply don't stick well enough to each other, even if you would manage to stick both to your build plate.

Ofcourse in some cases you can get it to work. For example, if you need to support a piece of overhang, which is connected to the rest of the object. But if a piece of the object needs a start on the PVA, you have to have a build material that sticks well to PVA. And ABS does not do that.

 

Thanks for the info! I didn't know that! Well, I do have some CPE as well... will that work better with PVA?

[benji_eod 0]

I put a sheet of 0.8mm PEI on my glass before my first print and it works great with the auto leveling. I am not using any glue or hairspray.

[tomnagel 128]

Thanks for the info! I didn't know that! Well, I do have some CPE as well... will that work better with PVA?

 

Nylon and PLA can be combined with PVA as support material. Other combinations are not officially supported. But feel free to experiment!

[RayvenMaker 1]

Nylon and PLA can be combined with PVA as support material. Other combinations are not officially supported. But feel free to experiment!

 

Thanks, tomnagel! Let the experimenting begin, then. I'll post results here.