PLA Filament, suppliers quality?

[hedis 0]

The power supply thing makes sense... now that I think about it. It will printing fine for 10 hours, I'll come in the room to check on it and BAM that's when it skips. I wonder if vibration is shaking the plug loose. Was joking with my wife, the machine functions on the quantum level.. works fine until you look at it.

hmmmm.....

Could it be the same as this problem?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=391

[owen 19]

I run the Ultimachine stuff at 210C with good results. I have done a lot of printing with it at 193C.

[Daid 306]

 

I tried wiggling the power connector... didn't mess with the print I just tried. How did you know it was bad. I mean what were your symptoms leading up to find out about the connector?

The fan stopped when my cat stepped on the connector. Wiggling it around also caused audible "disconnects"

[c-ernst 1]

I saw that post on the neon light... I am assuming he means florescent. I did try his batter light idea... same results. Might be my house power though. I have burnt up 3 routers in the 5 years before I put in a UPS on the power supply. Might be time to get one for the printer.

[ultimate-x 0]

I saw that post on the neon light... I am assuming he means florescent. I did try his batter light idea... same results. Might be my house power though. I have burnt up 3 routers in the 5 years before I put in a UPS on the power supply. Might be time to get one for the printer.

You're right. There are different translations for these lights But your description of the Layershifts just at the instance you are checking on the print is quite a hint in the direction of that sort.

Because this discussion is off topic I suppose to start a new thread in the troubleshooting section.

[thedudevt 0]

I think I found this on Florian's blog, but I can't find the link now.

http://www.protoparadigm.com/2011/11/filament-tolerances-and-print-quality/

Here's a nice article on filament quality. (I am not affiliated with this vendor, and have not bought from them)

I propose we use this thread to keep track of filament quality as described in this article from vendors as we order. Should be pretty straight forward if you have a digital caliper available.

e.g.

Vendor:

filament material:

filament color:

filament nominal diameter:

roundness as measured at three points:

diameter as measured at three points:

Kyle

[ultimate-x 0]

Thanks for the link

It's quite useful info

[c-ernst 1]

I am just bout done burning through a 5lb reel of Ultimachine PLA. I have to say when I got all the setting right the stuff was very good. I am now convinced that the temps my machine is reporting are not correct. I needed to run Ultimachine's pla at 250 to get it to flow. I thought is was the filament seeing the gold PLA I received with the machine from Ultimaker ran at 230 (which is still high)

Now that I am onto ABS I need to run at 267 to get that stuff to come out of the nozzle.

This is the fan shroud I am using (which is pretty much the only fan housing that keeps the air flow off the nozzle.) thanks to Owen...

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:13625

I also have to run at a slower speed to get the layers to bond.

My question is anyone else having to run stupid high temps to get flow on their ABS and PLA? I see people running at 185-190 on PLA and I am having a hard time believing it.

Is there a chance that my temp sending unit might be off or malfunctioning?

Chuck

[Daid 306]

I had to run at at least 210 while using the 5D firmware and early Marlin, but with ErikZalm/Marlin and the new PID(+C) controller I can print at 195, at low speed. I normally print at 230C 80-100mm/s. Which strings quite a bit then.

[mr_seeker 0]

Have you checked if the temperature is right when starting cold?

[c-ernst 1]

good idea.. I'll try that.

What your saying is the head should be ambient temp correct and the electronics should reflect that.

[mr_seeker 0]

Yep. When not in use, it should register 20-30C. If not, check (and reconnect) the temperature connection. If you print at higher temperatures than 250, then there is a problem.

[c-ernst 1]

yeah it's coming in at 22c... which is ambient. I think I will order some different ABS from another supplier and see what I get out of it.

[Daid 306]

The temperature sensor accuracy is not easy to find out. It could be spot on at 22C, but off by 14C at 200C. There are quite a few factors in play here.

[c-ernst 1]

Do you think I should swap out the temp probe? or override the 275c in the Marlin firmware and bump up the temps?

I will pick up a laser thermometer tonight and check the tip temps to confirm the sensor accuracy before messing with anything else.

Chuck

[Daid 306]

Verifying accuracy would be the best first step. Also, verify stability, if there is a lot of fluctuation in the temperature measurement you might have a lose connection somewhere.

Another "low budget" way to test the sensor would be ice water and boiling water, which should be 0C and 100C (at sea level, if you are at high elevation this makes boiling temperature a few deg lower)

[c-ernst 1]

II definatly have some variation in temps. +-5 to +- 7c according to Pronterface. I will try the water test.... I think I need to alter the Marlin to do that though. I think I saw a 5 degree cut off in the code to check to see if the probe was working or not, basically if it comes up 0 it shuts down.

[c-ernst 1]

I checked the connections... the instability I mentioned before is until the temp stabilizes. I only wavers by about 2-3 degrees. I checked the connections anyway.

Wow... this thing is off by about 25 degrees at 250.

The machine is registering At

200 it really is 195.

230 it is 210;

250 and the laser is coming in at 225.

At 260 it's really 235.

What do you think I need to do? order a new probe?

Chuck

[Daid 306]

That's one odd curve. I assume this is with the fan off? (fan might be cooling the outside while keeping the inside warmer)

But the problem might not be in the probe, it could also be in the sensor board (small board on top of the printer head). But now you know the "error" you could just work around it by using a higher temperature. It should be able to print at 235C.

[joergen 2]

I checked the connections... the instability I mentioned before is until the temp stabilizes. I only wavers by about 2-3 degrees. I checked the connections anyway. this thing is off by about 25 degrees at 250.

The machine is registering At

200 it really is 195.

230 it is 210;

250 and the laser is coming in at 225.

At 260 it's really 235.

What do you think I need to do? order a new probe?

 

This seems all too familiar:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ultimaker/AdYoQi2_HOk/5tGm13BeZy8J and https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CGoOli0YIIs5WpcCSxmrezIYJXjTqlQYmaNWFtjfw8o

I think it has been established by now that it is the accumulation of different factors: temp sensor errors and AD conversion error on the arduino can add up to 10% error (25C) as you've seen. the good news is that it seems stable, meaning the error doesn't drift, the bad news is that in bad cases you can forget about printing ABS.

[Daid 306]

This seems all too familiar:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ultimaker/AdYoQi2_HOk/5tGm13BeZy8J and https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CGoOli0YIIs5WpcCSxmrezIYJXjTqlQYmaNWFtjfw8o

I think it has been established by now that it is the accumulation of different factors: temp sensor errors and AD conversion error on the arduino can add up to 10% error (25C) as you've seen. the good news is that it seems stable, meaning the error doesn't drift, the bad news is that in bad cases you can forget about printing ABS.

True, but that error should be a fixed value + gain error. So for example the error is +4C +4%, which still should give a nice temperature line. (The non-linearity of both the temperature sensor and the ADC is very low) and these few data points don't look like a nice line.

I've added the maximum temperature setting (275) to my marlin builder:

http://daid.eu/~daid/marlin_build/

this means you can go over 275C set point with a different setting. But use with care, at a too high temperature you will destroy parts of your machine.

[c-ernst 1]

good find... that totally is what is happening on my machine. I bought this machine to print ABS parts so I need to get this going.

And yes the temps were measured with the fan off.

I think the avenue I am going to take is ordering a replacement thermocouple and sensor board, (might as well order replacement head parts in case I fry this thing)

edit the firmware to allow for higher temps. I am going to see if I can some replacements from Ultimaker... if not I will buy them from the online store.

Then crank up the temp a couple of degrees at a time until the ABS flows.

The worst that can happen is melting the bowen tube and frying the PEEK insulator... I think.

Lastly ordering a new arduino 2560. (at least I can use the old board for some geek projects)

This is killing me... having this awesome machine and I can only print brittle PLA.

Chuck

[c-ernst 1]

Thanks Daid on the Marlin build app thingy... that is pretty slick.

Chuck

[c-ernst 1]

Ok... my temp regulation and monitoring is completely FUBAR. I managed to get the ABS to print decent at 300 degrees C. Finally I get the ABS smell I have read so much about. When I first was experimenting with ABS it didn't smell any different that the PLA... which was no smell. Now I know I was running way too cool of temps.

I still haven't received a reply from Ultimaker on the issue... I guess I will start by replacing one part at a time and see what is up.

Thanks to everyone with the suggestions.

Chuck

[futura65 0]

Seems like most threads this one has gotten off the original topic with folks discussing temp sensor issues and part swapping/replacing.

On a thread topic related note, I noticed Ultimachine must have gotten an order of supplies because they've got more in stock then they did a week ago. I just ordered several varieties of color and material to play with. That is once my Ultimaker arrives and I get it assembled. :lol: