Printing small letters

[gr5 2,167]

Many sans serif fonts work great such as the most popular two fonts on mac and pc - helvetica and ariel respectively. Both excellent fonts. And the font I am looking at right now as I type (Arieal).

I'm not going to out the guy but someone said to me personally that @rich17222 should be "given a yellow card" for choosing such a horrible font to 3d print. It was in jest of course.

The purpose of serif's is to make very very small type easier to read. It's used on newsprint and magazines where the writing is quite small. For larger print - taller than say about 4mm there is no need. Serif's may be pretty in their own way but they hurt readability more than help at that point.

[geert_2 557]

I can do fonts of 2.8mm tall no problem. Just fine tune of the settings and tons of retractions to keep every extrusion under-control.

 

Hello neotko: the text on the blue and green plates have different sizes. Could you tell which height they have in mm (capitals height, not raised height)? And with which nozzle these were printed?

When printing small text of a few mm capitals height, I always have clearly visible "circles" on each character, where the nozzle stops a moment, retracts and then lifts off. Sort of little donut-deformations.

But I don't see these donuts on your characters. So, I was wondering how you did that?

Concerning the image rotation: could that be in the image settings recorded by your camera (the so called EXIF or IPTC info in each JPG file)? Some image viewers auto-rotate a picture based on these settings, some don't. So if your viewer does auto-rotation, and you upload it, but the website doesn't (or vice-versa), you may have this effect. Just guessing, but it's an educated guess.

[neotko 1,417]

0.4 nozzle. I use tons of retractions for the fonts, and wipe+retracting (simplify3d, and I think new cura has something alike?) and while the keychain is printed mostly at 60mm/s the fonts go at 40mm/s

Size in mm depends from model to model, but the small ones 2.80-3.2mm tall more or less

[geert_2 557]

0.4 nozzle. I use tons of retractions for the fonts, and wipe+retracting (simplify3d, and I think new cura has something alike?) and while the keychain is printed mostly at 60mm/s the fonts go at 40mm/s

Size in mm depends from model to model, but the small ones 2.80-3.2mm tall more or less

Thanks!

[burtoogle 513]

Hello Folks, I am new to Cura (and this forum) but I just thought I would mention a new Cura feature that can improve the surface quality when you have raised letters. The Cura master branch now has a setting called "Minimum Infill Area" which specifies a lower limit of the size of an area of infill (in mm^2). Areas of infill smaller than this will be replaced with skin.

The rational behind this feature is to reduce the likelyhood of the skin being segmented when small features (like letters, lines, etc.) are raised above the skin surface. So if the skin can be printed in one segment that extends under the raised features rather than a bunch of segments that surround the infill below the raised features then the visual quality of the surface is improved. YMMV.

[Lord Hatfield 0]

I find that the Ultimaker prints fine with small lettering,

BUT-

you need to set the height to 0.78 inches or above and the width around 0.39 inches or above any smaller and it could get puzzled and ruin the print..

 

Regards. Lord Hatfield.

                                    Northern England (U.K)

[Quan 0]

Hi everyone,

i got my printer yesterday and tried to print a stamp and its own mold.

its 2,2cm x 5,5cm.

and these are my outputs. Any idea why? 

Mine is 0.4mm nozzle

and infill density is 20%, not 60% as screenshot

 

please find cura setting attached and 2 of my products 😞

 

[burtoogle 513]

Hello @Quan, it's hard to see what's happening from your images, could you please save the project and attach the .3mf file to this thread. Thanks.

[geert_2 557]

At first glance it looks like underextrusion, thus not a text problem but a general problem, as there are holes in the base plate too. But it is hard to say without more info (printer model, material, temp, speed, flow rate, etc...)

 

You could try to print the same plate, but without any text at all, thus just a thin flat plate. At exactly the same settings, and see what comes out?

 

[Acedra 0]

@geert_2, what is the width and height of the letters as well as the z height? I'm trying to print some super small stuff and your's look incredible. Just trying to get an idea of what I can expect from mine.

[geert_2 557]

5 hours ago, Acedra said:

@geert_2, what is the width and height of the letters as well as the z height? I'm trying to print some super small stuff and your's look incredible. Just trying to get an idea of what I can expect from mine.

 

Note that the pastel blue and green models shown above are not mine, but from neotko. But they look great indeed.

 

My dimensions are in this pic below.

The character sets (RSDOC-format) and testplates (STL) can be found here:

https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/geert-keteleer/manuals/

 

 

 

[inventabuild 5]

On 1/9/2017 at 12:43 PM, neotko said:

@krys

I can do fonts of 2.8mm tall no problem. Just fine tune of the settings and tons of retractions to keep every extrusion under-control.

I wonder why the image shows rotated..

 

Hello neotko, I get gaps in my little letters using 25% Outline Overlap.  What % do you use to get rid of the gaps?

[neotko 1,417]

7 hours ago, inventabuild said:

 

Hello neotko, I get gaps in my little letters using 25% Outline Overlap.  What % do you use to get rid of the gaps?

 

 

And S3D, and basically, each font size is separated on a process and each process uses a different nozzle size, even if you use 0.4 nozzle you (depending on the precision of the extruder and issues from a bowden) you could do 0.32-0.36 without getting stringing (if your extruder can do it without breaking the filament). That's why I use directdrive and bondtech feeder. To do tiny fonts you need the extrusion as precise as possible, ofc you can also ramp down the temperature and print them slow to get almost the same effect, but will need tunning. The outline overlap is a weird setting, for example for 4.2mm fonts I use single extrusion infill and force 1 perimeter to avoid getting both mixed, or for 2.8 I force gap infill and play with the settings until I get a crisp gcode preview. This ofc assuming the filament is close to perfect, a filament error of +0.06 will make your tests a mess, so is all about finding the balance, the smaller the text the harder is to get repetition

[inventabuild 5]

Edited

Edited October 13, 2019 by inventabuild

[inventabuild 5]

On 1/13/2017 at 11:20 AM, geert_2 said:

In the beginning, I also had trouble that Cura wouldn't print things smaller than 0.4mm (UM2 with standard 0.4mm nozzle). So for printing small text, I designed my own character set on a 0.5mm grid. Thus all strokes are wider than 0.4mm, with some spare: vertical and horizontal strokes are exactly 0.5mm wide. Diagonal strokes have a width between 0.48 and 0.53mm.

Caps-height is 3.5mm, and most characters are 2.0mm wide (except W, M, and a few others). These characters are very easy to design, and they print reasonably well if printed cool and slow enough.

I also tried different variants of some characters, to see which are printed best for raised text, recessed text, and hollowed-out text (=completely inside transparant material, as a watermark).

See the picture for an idea of the characters.

Edit: added pictures of these characters 3D-printed as hollowed-out text, thus text fully enclosed by this transparant PET material. Here too: caps-height is 3.5mm, character width is 2.0mm.

Nice work! What software did you use to design the font?  Can you post the font somewhere for download?

[geert_2 557]

I didn't make a real font-file, since I don't know how to do that.

 

So to set text, you need to copy and pasted each character from the character set, letter by letter. Like in the old days of metal printing. This is good for a short copyright notice, but not very suitable for 3D-printed newspapers, obviously.

 

The character set is in DesignSpark Mechanical's native format, RSDOC; and DesignSpark Mechanical is freeware (requires registration).

 

If you would like to convert these characters to a real font, thus a TTF-file or similar, feel free to do so. Just keep it free for everyone.

 

Also, I can read STEP-files, but can not export to them. So, if anyone has the STEP-converter option in DesignSpark Mechanical, feel free to export this set. Then it is still not a real font, but at least the STEP-format is way more universal than the RSDOC-format.

 

The set is still here (scroll down a bit): https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/geert-keteleer/manuals/

 

[Pompopom 0]

@gr5 in this topic:

I'm astunned by the pictures of the 2 colored "scrabble" blocks you posted earlier. Nice Job.

 

Seeing that result I'm planning on doing same thing for having a logo + arrow left/right and a Menu in the frontface of an enclosure.

Can/will you elaborate on the process applied?  It seems as if you "just" print the letters and then apply a closed layer of white on top of it?

Or is that an optical illusion and does your stl from the white "stone" have the letters in negative?

 

Either way: how many layers thick do you print your red letters?

 

Thx very much for the info and the inspiring images!

[RayW 0]

This is a long shot. I know this discussion was started 5 years ago but it's the best one on the subject of printing small text that I've found. Some of the people are no longer around but I have desperate questions and hope someone has discovered the answers I cannot. Forgive me for resurrecting an otherwise dead thread.

 

Neotko was able to print as small as 2.8mm tall text using a .4mm nozzle, "tons of extractions" and wipe+retracting. How exactly did he do that? I can slice my print in Cura 4.13.1 and it looks good even at 3.0mm but when I print, the result is "blurred" text. I'm using a single wall with a line width of .33 and a .4 nozzle. Neotko mentioned printing the base at 60mm/s and the text at 40mm/s. How do I do that in a single gcode file in Cura or was he stacking two prints?

 

I think I read where gr5 was printing his red and white tiles with a .2mm single layer of red topped by a second print that printed right over the top with a .3mm layer of white. Is that all there is to it? No adjustment of the white layer to accommodate the red print below?

 

Finally, it seems that using a .2mm nozzle might be the solution for legible small text but does that assume that the entire print is done with the small nozzle or that the model is split and the nozzle is changed out between printing the base and printing the text?

 

Thanks for helping me sort this out.

Edited September 10, 2022 by RayW

[GregValiant 1,248]

It is possible to split a file with the bottom printed with a 0.4 nozzle and the top with a 0.2 nozzle.  The problem happens during the pause when you swap the nozzles.  They won't be exactly the same length.  With some beforehand experimenting you would know the difference and could use a "G92 Z" command to adjust the Z to account for the different lengths of the nozzles.

Another option would be to print the bottom file with a 0.4 and alter the ending gcode so the machine stays hot and the print head moves to a position where you could change nozzles.  That gcode could end at that point.

After changing nozzles a second file would print on top of the first.  You cannot home the XY axes after changing nozzles.  The endstop switches aren't accurate enough and you will likely introduce a layer shift.  For the model you show in your post it probably doesn't matter because the lettering actually has no relation to the base below.  A G28 Z would be needed.  You could move to some open place on the build plate and home the Z where it's clear to drop down.  Then raise up to the working height and print.

@geert_2 does some nice experiments (and documents them really well) so he is a good choice to discuss printing small fonts.  I have printed a lot of lettered models but I go for wider letters which are simply easier.  You want to make sure your "Retraction Minimum Travel" and "Max Comb Distance with No Retract" are set to distances less than the distance between the letters.  A lot of stringing between adjacent letters can cause a mess.  Using Z-Hops can be a good idea as well.

[RayW 0]

Thank you. I installed Cura 15.1.0 today but so far it doesn't seem to have changed anything. I will experiment with those parameters you mentioned.  I was hoping that one of the small text experts could tell me what they are using in Cura to get the results they get, although since the preview looks so good, I'm suspecting there's something in my printer that's not helping.

[Cuq 198]

Interesting discussion that I had already asked on other forum without real definitive solution and which concerned the best Fonts for 3D FFF printing. 

 

Preferably : Sans Serif, Bold, Rounded 

 

Finally I decided to create my own font that would give me the best results. But the project is still in progress.  And for a 0.4 nozzle the minimum size seems to be 2 mm.  For 1,5 you have to use 0.2 as indicated by @GregValiant.

 

A link : https://github.com/5axes/NameIt/wiki/New-Font-:-NameIt-Rounded-Bold

 

The initial requirements :

• Printing a single outer contour,
• No interior infill
• Continuous and rounded motion  that minimizes letter wraping when printing the first layer

 

[GregValiant 1,248]

The letters on this coaster are 1.2 wide so printing with a .4 nozzle was no problem.  This was sliced in a 4.x version.

 

Cura 5.1 needs some settings adjusted (like Split Middle Line Threshold) to print single-extrusion width letters.  If the line width matches the width of the font then there is no "second" line required in the letters and the H's, E's, R's, etc. are hard to print because they have dead ends.  There is no continuous motion for the entire letter and all those extrusion starts and stops in a small space cause the letters to lose their "crispness".

An example of the problem is printing a hair comb with .4mm wide tines.

At a .4mm line width the extrusion goes out one tine, moves over, and then extrudes back creating the adjacent tine.  That will leave a string connecting every other tine.

The preferred path would be to go out and come back on the same tine.  Adjusting the minimum line width so the toolpath is "extrude out, move over a tiny bit, extrude back" ensures there is no jumping from one tine to the adjacent tine.  They would all be connected at the root instead of every other tine having strings connecting the blind ends.

 

I hope that was clear enough.  The bottom line is that single-line-width letters are tough.

[geert_2 557]

The most important thing in printing small text is to print it very slow, in very thin layers, and as cool as possible. But with a standard 0.4mm nozzle, it will always look like from the Flintstones, simply because the nozzle can not make sharper corners than 0.4mm, and it can not get into narrow openings in letters like N, M, V, W. Also, characters like 8, B, D, O, Q, tend to get rounded off and look rather similar.

 

But it is legible, and good enough for copyright-text, on/off switches, rulers, and similar simple indications. I also like to use small text for watermarks in transparent and translucent materials. Watermarks can have a bit rougher shape, that is to be expected.

 

During the last years, someone made a real font from my vectordrawings shown above, so you can find links to that on my personal page (scroll down there):

https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/geert-keteleer/manuals/

 

Below a couple more pictures (also see the ones above). Unless otherwiste noted, all caps height is 3.5mm, character-width is 2...2.5mm, and leg-width is 0.5mm, all printed with a 0.4mm nozzle. So this is what you could expect from "normal printing" without any special equipment.

 

Raised text:

 

Watermark sitting 5mm deep halfway in a 10mm high transparent block (left: as printed; right: after some polishing):

 

More watermarks, design files:

 

Usually I place watermarks ca. 0.5mm behind/below the surface. That keeps them legible.

 

Watermark, also note the 0.4mm wide diagonal layer-lines:

 

This is ultra-small text, 2.5mm high and 1.5mm wide, instead of my usual 3.5mm. This is the limit of my printers. Very much "Flintstonian":

 

I make the watermark by first designing the text separately, thus outside of the model. I save that as a separate model for later re-use. Then I move the text inside of the model. Upon exporting to STL, my 3D-editor DesignSpark Mechanical automatically subtracts the text from the model and produces correct STL-files. So I don't have to do the subtracting myself for a fully submerged watermark. That makes it a lot easier to later edit the text. In case of raised or recessed text on the surface, obviously I need to do all merging myself, since we can not have partially overlapping models. The merging should be done only as the last step, after all other editing is completed. This below is fully submerged text, unmerged:

 

More watermarks: the top model is smoothed after printing, so the layer-lines are less visible and the watermark shines through better. The bottom model is as-printed, with the layer-lines reflecting light and hiding the watermark a bit.

 

Raised text:

 

Separate file with my usual copyright-text, so I can easily import that into any design, move it to the right place, and (if raised or recessed text) merge or subtract from the design. Font shape is very crude with only straight lines, which makes rendering and slicing faster, conserves memory, and keeps files small. Making it more detailed or rounding corners makes no sense, since the printer can't print those details anyway.

 

[RayW 0]

@Cuq

I like that font. From everything that's been discussed here, it looks like it has the right attributes. I assume it's not yet available as a .ttf file. When you print 2mm tall text, what's the width of the stroke and the line with? How are you printing narrow lines like that with a .4mm nozzle? Are there other slicer adjustments required (speed, retractions, feed rate)?

[RayW 0]

On 9/12/2022 at 4:46 AM, GregValiant said:

I hope that was clear enough.  The bottom line is that single-line-width letters are tough.

Quite clear. I hadn't considered the return line. So if the width of the stroke is 0.41mm, my 0.4mm nozzle would make one pass down one side, mover over 0.01mm and return down the other side. Is that correct? Or would the stroke have to be wider still?

 

Something that's not making sense to me yet is how you can print with line width narrower than the nozzle. I guess if you move fast enough, you can stretch the filament into a slightly thinner line, but that's contrary to other advice that says printing small details like that should be done very slowly.

 

I've successfully printed stacked models and know that managing the Z offset or changing filament without moving the hot end can be a challenge. I can't even imagine trying to change a nozzle or compensate for a slightly larger nozzle between models.