Ultimaker Mark2 - The Smart Dual-Extrusion Upgrade

[neotko 1,417]

I think the main thing to check atm is like @ultiarjan tested, on Cura 2.5 it doesn't happen but Cura 2.6 does ?

Well..., it's stated above that it (probably) does not depend on the Cura version, because it happens with Cura 2.5 too - and even with S3D. The difference must be elsewhere...

That's why I ruled this out at the moment.

Wow too follow ups, my bad!

Is there any difference on the length of decimal points that are hold on the buffer when changing from T0 to T1 at the moment of doing the change?

Maybe there's something we are missing on the current marlin that UM found out while doing the UM3 and that's why they use Forced Tool offsets on the Gcode instead of the Offset sets by firmware?

Edit: Nah doesn't make sense? Um3 does use small offsets for the calibration, and they use gcode offsets to avoid changes on the physical areas like switch and pause area...

Edited June 9, 2017 by Guest

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I think the main thing to check atm is like @ultiarjan tested, on Cura 2.5 it doesn't happen but Cura 2.6 does ?

Well..., it's stated above that it (probably) does not depend on the Cura version, because it happens with Cura 2.5 too - and even with S3D. The difference must be elsewhere...

That's why I ruled this out at the moment.

I agree.... but it is strange as both my tests where on the same machine with the same offset settings.... so I don't understand why my 2.5 code did not lean....

[neotko 1,417]

I think the main thing to check atm is like @ultiarjan tested, on Cura 2.5 it doesn't happen but Cura 2.6 does ?

Well..., it's stated above that it (probably) does not depend on the Cura version, because it happens with Cura 2.5 too - and even with S3D. The difference must be elsewhere...

That's why I ruled this out at the moment.

I agree.... but it is strange as both my tests where on the same machine with the same offset settings.... so I don't understand why my 2.5 code did not lean....

Random question

Between test prints, was the machine fully reset? Maybe there's something that stays after a print is done? Just a random thought

[conny_g 251]

If my theory is correct, it could be solved by setting the offset to a round value before doing a calibration. (and the influence would be invisible)

Let me recapitulate:

1. The extruder offsets are added to the current position on a tool change.
   
2. We are guessing that the leaning has something to do with rounding errors of the Marlin planner (which "translates" the moving path to the number of steps).
   
3. the current suggestion is: rounding of the extruder offsets to a multiple of one microstep (1/369mm for the UM2+ feeder) and check, if this makes a difference
   

correct me if i'm wrong...

Not 1/369 of the extruder steps, the 1/78.xxx of the X/Y steps. The 0.0125mm.

[RudydG 62]

Tested today:

Redid the calibration, and put new values in the offset, still round figures.

printing right now my own file which was skewed.

All is printing fine now, straight!!

So, at least for now, the printer works like it is supposed to.

Can someone do the same things?

Or people which have skewed prints, what are you extruder offset settings?

[rigs 735]

My contribution....

Slicer S3D

[RudydG 62]

My contribution....

Slicer S3D

Can you post your extruder ofeset settings?

[ultiarjan 1,223]

My extruder offsets:

X 17.87

Y - 24.35

Z 2.45

And I had leaning based on Cura 2.6 and no leaning based on Cura 2.5 with these same offsets....

[RudydG 62]

My extruder offsets:

X 17.87

Y - 24.35

Z 2.45

And I had leaning based on Cura 2.6 and no leaning based on Cura 2.5  with these same offsets....

I have 2 gcode files, which had the leaning problem before i changed my offsets to a round value, after that, the 2 files, without changing anything else, printed straight.

Maybe i am lucky, but to me it seems there is an "connection" between the offset and the leaning.

[rigs 735]

Can you post your extruder ofeset settings?

[RudydG 62]

Can you post your extruder ofeset settings?

Seems to be the same situation, let's hope this is true, so the solution could be simple, choose a round value, like 18.10 instead of 18.11 or 18.09

Maybe some others can test this also?

I am printing dual at this moment, without problems / leaning / skewing ;-)

[neotko 1,417]

Maybe @ultiarjan or @rigs could test a simple cube and add a

T1

T0

Before each z change. And do it for half of the print. Also it might help to do the same with and without Tool offsets (set to zero?). To check if the Tool change on the firmware is adding something with or without offset info.

[conny_g 251]

What happens in the firmware is that for the toolchange the extruder offsets are added and subtracted, but in difference to other actions not coupled to a physical movement. It's basically an offset change of the axis. And that seems to cause an offset in the physical position with every change.

That needs mathematical verification, but maybe it happens if the extruder 1 offset is a certain fraction of a microstep off vs extruder 1 so that the rounding falls to the wrong side.

[zerspaner_gerd 382]

I prints with Crema variant dual and had the same with the standard Tinker 16.03 firmware

This error occurred with me only where I have the nozzle offset in the firmware with these sets activated:

https://github.com/TinkerGnome/Ultimaker2Marlin/blob/V16.03.1/Marlin/Configuration.h#L405-L409

define EXTRUDER_OFFSET_X {0.0, 18.12} // (in mm) for each extruder, offset of the hotend on the X axis
define EXTRUDER_OFFSET_Y {0.0, -0.22} // (in mm) for each extruder, offset of the hotend on the Y

At Cura Offset or with S3D offset my pressures were straight, the same with the M command M218 so I print now and the pressures are straight.

Furthermore, I see that the offset values with the Microstep parts leave e.g. Y0.1875 / 0.0125 = 15.00 entire steps

[conny_g 251]

Interesting.

So it seems confirmed that it has to do with the extruder offset.

But I don't understand what would be different if the offset is configured the one or the other way, the math done during tool change is the same.....

[Melka 57]

To summarize, it seems that the leaning problem is due to rounding errors because of the printhead 2 offset settings, when those X/Y values are not multiples of a microstep (0.0125)

Am I correct ?

[RudydG 62]

To summarize, it seems that the leaning problem is due to rounding errors because of the printhead 2 offset settings, when those X/Y values are not multiples of a microstep (0.0125)

Am I correct ?

I guess you are right, (the values i don't know, because we don't have control over the 3rd decimal figure)

But i checked some old prints is still had, and i had it on all of my prints, from the beginning i used the MK2, but is thought it was bad calibration.

Will follow this thread from distance, as i leave for a week on holiday ;-)

[conny_g 251]

To summarize, it seems that the leaning problem is due to rounding errors because of the printhead 2 offset settings, when those X/Y values are not multiples of a microstep (0.0125)

Am I correct ?

My assumption would be that there is a rounding issue happening if the current position before the tool change resp. at the start of the toolchange plus the extruder offset go across a rounding boundary. In my view the extruder offset alone can't be the reason otherwise the rounding would correct itself when changing back and only extruder 2 would be off, extruder 1 would be ok again. So the sequence of changing to and back and adding/subtracting the offsets 2 times causes the rounding to go "left" one time and "right" the next time.

I think it needs a simulation in Excel to confirm or some debug output every time before adding/subtracting the offsets during tool change. Unfortunately I am on vacation for a week now, too...

Edited June 11, 2017 by Guest

[CCA1 15]

OK, I made it through 4 of the 14 pages and just thought it would be SOOO much faster to just ask...... Where can you see the details, cost, shipping info, etc. for the Mark 2 Extension Board? I have been all over the "Mark 2" website with no mention of where or how to get it there. Nor is there a way to "contact us" or anything like that on that website. So I'm here, much like EricksonM and his post with the same question, which, in 4 pages, I still haven't seen an answer to. Is it just me, or is that particular information just that hard to find? I'm trying to find my "end cost" to justify this upgrade to my CFO. (wife)

Update -

I found that it looks like you actually have to email out a request for any of this information. (actually called the Mark2 "Essentials kit" in case your looking for "extension board". It is not made available on the website. (I think)

Edited June 13, 2017 by Guest

[TheFox 6]

Update -

I found that it looks like you actually have to email out a request for any of this information. (actually called the Mark2 "Essentials kit" in case your looking for "extension board". It is not made available on the website. (I think)

Hi CCA1,

on github, there's a Bill of Material (BOM) where you can find all needed materials.https://github.com/foehnsturm/Mark2/blob/master/Mark2-BOM.xlsx

At the moment you can't buy a all in one set on the website, but i think it will be possible in the future. Right now, you have to write to user SyntaxTerror to ask for an expansion board which is around 40 €, get an extra ultimaker print head, print some parts, buy some magnets and you're almost ready to go.

Hope this helps!

[pixl2 33]

Hello everybody

I have a few problems and questions.

Last week I exchanged the old print head from my UM2 (with Bondtech Feeder Universal (right) and Tinkergnome V16.03.1) with the new UM2+ upgrade kit print head. Afterwards I printed to test, if everything still works the Benchy boat and it was all right.

Yesterday I changed everything to Mark2: add Bondtech Feeder Universal LeftHand, old printed head, Mark2 board and Tinker-Mark2-expansion-board-17.02.2.hex.

1. Is the firmware “Tinker-Mark2-expansion-board-17.02.2.hex” correct or do I need to take the “Tinker-Mark2-dual-17.02.2.hex”?

2. The Feeder of Extruder 1 has been rotating backwards since the new firmware “Tinker-Mark2-expansion-board-17.02.2.hex”. The Feeder of Extruder 2 runs normally. How can I fix this?

3. What kind of glue (brand and type) do you use? For me, the magnets do not hold with my UHU plastic glue. At each toolchange, the magnets drop off.

4. Is this distance of 2.1mm ok? I thought with the old UM2 print head it was 1mm.

5. Am I right that I can adjust the 5.1mm in the menu "Adjust Z (nozzle 2)" and then the printer knows how high the plate must go after the tool change when printing?

Thanks for your feedback

Edited June 13, 2017 by Guest

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

@pixl2: As far as I remember, the BOM recommends superglue; a standard all-purpose glue might not be sufficient.

Concerning the Mark2 essential kit: distribution of this kit is making progress. For the moment, the easiest way to get one is to get in contact with @DidierKlein (for EU countries), @gr5 (Americas) or @Dim3nsioneer (Switzerland). If you live outside those regions, just get in contact with the guy of your choice. Up to a certain level, all three might be able to provide shipping into other areas.

At some point, @Foehnsturm might also put some links on the website www.magnetic-tool-changer.com.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

1. Is the firmware “Tinker-Mark2-expansion-board-17.02.2.hex” correct or do I need to take the “Tinker-Mark2-dual-17.02.2.hex”?

2. The Feeder of Extruder 1 has been rotating backwards since the new firmware “Tinker-Mark2-expansion-board-17.02.2.hex”. The Feeder of Extruder 2 runs normally. How can I fix this?

3. What kind of glue (brand and type) do you use? For me, the magnets do not hold with my UHU plastic glue. At each toolchange, the magnets drop off.

4. Is this distance of 2.1mm ok? I thought with the old UM2 print head it was 1mm.

5. Am I right that I can adjust the 5.1mm in the menu "Adjust Z (nozzle 2)" and then the printer knows how high the plate must go after the tool change when printing?

1>

the "expansion board" firmware is ok if you have installed the custom electronicsboard from @syntaxterror, if you have just hardwired your 2th pair of fans to the first, you should take the other.

2>

you can set the rotation direction on the printer, can't point to the exact location in the menu as I'm not near a printer atm.  (ask again if you can't find it..)

3>

just superglue, (Cyanoacrylate), what material did you print the parts in?

4>

if there is no play in the part anymore it's ok, rotate the steel coupler untill there's a little pressure

5>

Yes, first do normal bed leveling on head 1 (T0) then change to head2 (T1) from the menu, and do the Z adjust on the 2th head, it will set the Z offset.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Guest

[CCA1 15]

Hi CCA1,

on github, there's a Bill of Material (BOM) where you can find all needed materials.https://github.com/foehnsturm/Mark2/blob/master/Mark2-BOM.xlsx

At the moment you can't buy a all in one set on the website, but i think it will be possible in the future. Right now, you have to write to user SyntaxTerror to ask for an expansion board which is around 40 €, get an extra ultimaker print head, print some parts, buy some magnets and you're almost ready to go.

Hope this helps!

"TheFox"

Thank you for the response. I did email "mark2essentials (at) magnetic-tool-changer.com" but have not gotten a response as of yet. Looks like (from Dim3nsioneers post) I need to contact GR5 for the Americas? I will try that next. I will print out the BOM and see where that gets me in terms of pricing. (Which is all I need for right now, but seems to be so hard to get, except for the extrusion upgrade kit. $395)

[gr5 2,172]

I replied to cca1. I will have the boards up on my store soon. I'm hoping they arrive to me this week. My kit will include magnets and screws, extension cables and circuit board. The only other thing you need is to get a plus kit or build your own equivalent or use an old "non plus" that was replaced by a plus kit. I only sell to usa, canada, mexico with a very few exceptions (things in my store not in any other store). My store: thegr5store.com