E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

[dieselpower 0]

Really thinking about upgrading to these after reading this topic. Anyone considered running these in dual setup on a UM2?

 

[anon4321 16]

Hey Jonny, have you worked on a V6 mount yet? If not, I have a model of the heatsink reversed from the engineering docs and I'm checking the top against a V6 as soon as a sample is done printing.

Meant to say I could pass you the model if you needed it for your mount design.

I think tomorrow I will print a hotend from the model to see if the dimensions match the real thing.

 

[jonnybischof 60]

Hi Anon,

I just received the v6 today (wasn't here yesterday when they first tried to deliver it).

It's one sweet little thing!!

Especially the new blue holder for the small fan is great. Snug fit, highly stable and very sexy

Making the new printhead will be a lot easier now, because that fan holder can actually be used in practice (in contrary to the v5 part which is just too ugly to use...).

Haven't been able to make the mount yet, as I'm about to produce my first prototype for a complete new frame and z-stage by the end of the week.

If all goes well, I can adapt my existing design to fit the v6 this weekend.

If you have a design ready, I'd be interested to take a peek at it and merge the good ideas

A question on the side:

Does anyone have experience with Nick Foley's Fanduct design? It looks intriguing, but I wonder how well it fares against other designs.

 

[anon4321 16]

Jonny, was hoping you had a design I could steal!

I think I'll try modding Mr. Foley's design.

 

[anon4321 16]

Ugh, this is a lot harder than I thought. NIck's design has a lot of nice but complex geometry....

 

[jonnybischof 60]

Ugh, this is a lot harder than I thought. NIck's design has a lot of nice but complex geometry....

 

Exactly what I thought when I tried to print it

My design is very similar, but with simpler geometry and more optimisation for easy printing.

 

[anon4321 16]

I HAVE SUCCEEDED in making a design that is completely unprintable!!!!!

Now I understand why the geometry is so complex in Nick's design....

Sigh, back to the drawing board.

 

[jonnybischof 60]

Mine is actually printable (v5), but still not finished and not tested

Will get back to it this week. I might actually finish it by the end of the week (v5 and v6), but can't make any promises.

 

[anon4321 16]

I'm making progress with converting Nick's V5 to V6.

I'm working on redoing the shroud portion now and after that it should be ready in the original form.

However, I'm looking to cut it so it goes from 3 to 4 pieces so that the main body is easier to print.

 

[jonnybischof 60]

My design only needs 2 pieces (plus optional fanduct). Fanduct is optional because I want to try out a crossflow fan setup. I'll most likely just make my design able to use Nick's fanduct. I could print his fanduct without any problems, but haven't tested it yet. I'll test it as soon as I have the rest of the printhead ready...

 

[anon4321 16]

I've run into an issue. I thought I was done but when I virtually assembled everything, the fan duct is too low. In other words, the nozzle, block and heat break plus the shorter heatsink is too short. There is only a .1mm clearance between the lowest parts of the duct and what I calculate as the tip of the nozzle.

The fan duct is only curves and I can't figure out how to rework it so that it doesn't drag on the build surface or print.

Once you add in a lot of rounds and off axis geometry, DesignSpark Mechanical is a real pain and often refuses to do some operations.

 

[jonnybischof 60]

I've just integrated Nick's Fanduct into my v5 design. Not tested yet, but already printing.

Sneak peek:

complete assembly (without fanduct)

 

printed parts, oriented for printing. All three parts print quite easily because they have large, flat bases and are constructed with very little overhangs.

 

Better pictures coming up as soon as the parts have finished printing.

 

I've run into an issue. I thought I was done but when I virtually assembled everything, the fan duct is too low.

...

 

 

Can't you just raise the mount for the fanduct?

Haven't looked into the details yet...

I measured the distance between the Y-axis and the mounting hole for the fanduct, and positioned that hole on the exact same position in my design. Hope that works..

(It won't work for v6 of course, I'll have to raise the mount by the amount the v6 is smaller than the v5)

/edit:

By the way, don't look at the design too closely. There are still multiple things that need to be improved...

 

[anon4321 16]

>> Can't you just raise the mount for the fanduct?

The problem is that where the fan duct attaches is bounded by curves and other geometry like the loop. This occurs both at where the fan duct attaches to the main body as well as where the "tabs" on the duct meet the swooping curves of the duct itself.

Additionally, the interface of the duct assembly to the main body has a clip on one side and the inverted obtuse L like shape on the other. There are no good right angles, parallels or straights in the are to cut out so the whole thing can be moved up. The situation is the same on the duct itself.

Here is the best pic I could get from youmagine:

 

[jonnybischof 60]

>> Can't you just raise the mount for the fanduct?

The problem is that where the fan duct attaches is bounded by curves and other geometry like the loop. This occurs both at where the fan duct attaches to the main body as well as where the "tabs" on the duct meet the swooping curves of the duct itself.

Additionally, the interface of the duct assembly to the main body has a clip on one side and the inverted obtuse L like shape on the other. There are no good right angles, parallels or straights in the are to cut out so the whole thing can be moved up. The situation is the same on the duct itself.

Here is the best pic I could get from youmagine:

 

That's precisely why I decided to remodel the mount

The loop isn't necessary and can just be left away. If anything, I might add the hole that goes all the way through the mount in my design as well. That's a very good way to get a clean wiring.

Btw. I've printed my version 0.7. I didn't get the fan duct mount perfectly fitting, and the fan duct was a little bit too low. No idea why, but I'm going to correct some errors and print again...

I've also been thinking about using M3 machine screws instead of self-tapping plastic screws. But that makes things much more complicated, so I'll probably stick to the self-tapping screws.

 

[anon4321 16]

I have a version that looks like it should work. I pushed the fan shroud up about 3-4 mm

Haven't printed it yet due to strange issues with my printer and the first few layers separating. I think it's temperature related.

 

[jonnybischof 60]

Couldn't wait any longer:

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/e3dv5-printhead-for-ultimaker-original-3mm-bowden-version

It's not finished yet, but you can see where I'm going. I'm almost done, but there's some more work needed to make the hotend fit perfectly. I have to do some work on my build platform before I can print it again, because right now I don't get good first layer accuracy. As soon as I have printed it with good quality, I'll finish up the fit and it should be good to go!

Note, this is the design for the v5 printhead! When I'm done with this one, I'll adapt it for v6.

There's no documentation yet. I'll make a clean documentation once I'm finished with the design.

 

[jonnybischof 60]

A little update!

With the latest iteration (V0.94) I got a perfect fit to the hotend. There is NO play at all anymore.

The linear bearings also fit very well, but not 100% perfect (there will be differences between each print, used material and so on anyways).

I have made a small change to the linear bearing holes which is printing at the moment.

Now I only have to fine-tune the height of Nick's Fanduct and the basic v5 mount will be finished!

Some details like cable fixings and a mount for the thermocouple amp board will follow, but these will be separate parts.

I will not be using standard machine screws (M3), but self-tapping screws. The results are simply a lot better, the whole mount is more stable and held together securely.

The screws supplied by E3D for mounting the small fan can be used with my design as well, so you only need one type of screw.

 

[andi 0]

Is anyone willing to do a guide for what is necessary to upgrade a UM1? I'm confused with the cartridge and the temperatur measurement.

I posted my questions recently at the E3D forum (here is probably a better place to do so): http://forum.e3d-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=196&sid=a9eccff077a163d94395db0ffdb4ca11%20;)

I messed up my hot end so I would need a replacement now. I hope I can print the v6 mount on another printer.

Update: Or is this topic still so experimental that I should by the stock hot end? Is there a cheaper solution to the Ultimaker Shop?

 

[jonnybischof 60]

I think upgrading to the E3D hotend is a good idea! My stock hotend ran for a long time (half a year or so) and then started to fail and fail again... It is running at the moment, but I find it hard to trust it now and I'm always near the printer while it prints.

I'm working on an Ultimaker mount for the v6 hotend. If you want to, you can keep the original heater block, heater cartridge and thermocouple sensor. That way, you don't have to make any changes in the firmware.

The E3D heater block might be a bit better than the UM original, but I doubt it will make much of a difference. I'll make a guide once I'm done, but you'll have to be patient - it might take a weeek or so until I'm done.

You shouldn't have a problem finding someone in Germany who can print the mount for you. Either ask around the forum or try www.3dhubs.com

 

[anon4321 16]

Well, there are three potential areas of compatibility problems and an additional one caused by addressing the others -

Issue 1) Heater voltage - The heater that comes with the full E3D kit is 12V while the UM1 uses 19V. Using the 12V one that comes with the E3D hotend is probably not a good idea,

Fix: reuse the heater from the UM1 hotend. HOWEVER, in my case, I have noticed that the heater is stuck in the block so strongly that I decided to order a second one from UM.

Issue 2) Temperature measurement - The UM1 standard end uses a thermocouple and the E3D kit comes with a thermistor.

Fix: two and a half possibilities -

Fix 1) Use the thermistor that comes with the E3D kit but you will need to solder a 4.7k ohm resistor to the UM controller and then rebuild the FW so that it expects a thermistor in place of the thermocouple. You will also need to cut the connector of at the hot end and correctly wire the thermistor to the wire harness.

Fix 2) Use the thermocouple and it's amp board from the UM1. NOTE a few things however. The alu block that comes with the E3D kit doesn't appear to have a hole deep enough to accept the TC Like the heater, the TC also tends to stick in the UM1 block after being used for a time AND can be easily destroyed trying to remove it Most E3D head replacement designs don't have a provision for mounting the amp board required for the UM1 TC.

Fix 2.5) Use the entire UM1 alu block with the UM1 heater and UM1 thermocouple (good if both are stuck in the block). NOTE: However this leads to Issue 3

Issue 3) If, to address issues 1 and 2, you reuse the UM1 alu block note that t[he UM1 block appears to be slightly thicker and may alter the tip to mount distance by a few mm. It is also slightly bulkier and may interfere with the various fan shroud designs.

Issue 4) Bowden tube - I'm not sure about this one. If the E3D hotend can accept and clamp the UM1 Bowden tube, there isn't an issue. If not, you need to buy a tube from E3D as well as the feeder side coupling

There might be other problems but they might not be discovered until someone attempts to put everything together.

 

[andi 0]

Thank you both for this great summary.

In case reusing the UM block + thermocouple seems to be the easiest way then the shopping list would look like this:

From E3D:

v6 Heat Break (3mm) £9.50

v6 Extra Nozzle - 3.00mm x 0.40mm £4.50

v6 HeatSink - 3mm Bowden £10.00

Bowden Tubing (100mm) (3mm Filament) £0.73

--> Alternative a Metal Only Kit + Tubing

From Ultimaker Shop:

Aluminum Heater Block 15 Euro

Thermocouple Sensor 26 Euro

+ the self printed mount

 

[anon4321 16]

You might want to add:

E3D -

30x30x10mm DC Fan

v6 Spare Fixings

Bowden Coupling - Threaded (3mm Filament)

Note also that the bowden tube is sold in lengths of 100mm and the UM1's tube is 670mm so you need qty = 7

If you are reusing an existing UM1 alu block, heater and TC. You don't need any of the stuff from UM. Otherwise, you need what you have listed plus

1052 Heater Cartridge 18V 40W Heater Cartridge (1)

 

 

[jonnybischof 60]

Your list is not quite complete like that..

You'll need the small fan and the bowden coupler for the extruder side as well (it's a different one than the UM original). The E3D hotend only works with the small fan (and the blue fanduct)! Otherwise it overheats and clogs. So you should also get the blue fanduct + screws.

You should just buy the Full Kit - 3mm Bowden.

Spare nozzles are always a good idea. You shouldn't use "any" nozzle but only the E3D ones with the E3D hotend.

When you place the order, make a comment that you'd like them to switch the 12V cartridge for a 24V one. They did switch it out for me, however without any comments. But I received a 24V cartridge

My v6 mount will come with a thermocouple amp fixing. As anon4321 mentioned, I don't know how well it works when you just use the full UM heater block with the UM cartridge and thermocouple (fix 2.5).

I haven't tried that yet and won't do it myself, but several other users reported that this works.

If you find that you have trouble with that setup, you can still switch to the E3D block, cartridge, and thermistor IF you bought the full kit.

About the small fan and the blue fanduct:

I will try to adapt my v5 mount so that the E3D blue fanduct can be used with it. The blue fanduct is made from polycarbonate and is very temperature resistant. It's much better than any printed version (like the one I made for my v5 mount).

/edit:

The bowden tube that comes with the full kit is longer than the UM original, so it should be just fine.

Note that you need a very sharp knife (ideally, a tube cutter) to cut it. It needs to be cut as straight and cleanly as possible.

As I mentioned before, I'll write up a full guide for putting the E3D into an Ultimaker - as soon as I get to it

/edit2:

You can get cheap tube cutters at aquarium or liquid computer cooling shops. Maybe aquatuning.de could be a good source for you

/edit3:

The E3D extruder side Bowden coupler doesn't fit the UM original extruder. But the original coupler fits the E3D tube.

I'd still consider buying the full kit, you'll be able to use most of the parts, and that way you can be sure that you have everything you need.

 

[anon4321 16]

Re tubing cutters .... I think you can print one too! Thought I saw a model for one. Hmmmm, the linked version certainly seems printable...

Here: https://www.youmagine.com/designs/bowden-tube-cutter

 

[anon4321 16]

I would agree with Jonny and suggest you just buy the full V6 bowden version. Buying the pieces you need will only save you 10 or so pounds. With the full kit, you will have options. Since this is still experiemental, having a backup plan is good.

So for me, I'm going with the UM1 block, heater and TC.

Jonny is apparently going with the switched out 24V E3D heater, thermister and in general the standard E3D V6 design.