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sanjay-e3d

E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

I can try printing the mount in PLA. It's very difficult to generalize, because there are 100s of different PLAs. I have a very strong PLA here (black from ProtoParadigm), I guess the mount would hold up well with this. But I also have PLA around that would fail for sure because it's just too weak for that application.

Don't forget that my mount is rather slim - it was designed to print with 100% infill and compensate that by making it as thin as possible. Some materials don't print too well with 100% infill, but that is an absolute must when printing this mount - if you want it to be as stable and solid as intended.

I recommend XT because that means you would use pretty much the same material I used - and I know the result is very good with this material.

I have done some "stress tests" with the XT mount. It takes a strong blow with a hammer to crush it... It even survives a good bit of tension without splitting.

With PLA however, I've noticed that it loses its tension with time. I've printed an LED ring for a microscope that clamped securely to the scope in the beginning. But after some weeks it got loose and now almost hangs down a little. Now, I don't know if that goes for every brand / batch of PLA, but I know XT doesn't have that problem (being PET-G). So I recommend XT in every case.

I don't recommend printing the mount in ABS because of the shrinkage. It would probably be very hard to fit the bearings and the hotend...

The fanduct would surely melt if made of PLA. I think ABS, or maybe XT, are a must. I can try out some different materials, but that will have to wait a little because there are more pressing matters (like finishing up that documentation I always talk about :p).

I've just finished a second test with my ABS fanduct: about 2 hours runtime @ 260°C with the cooling fan off (small fan on of course).

The ABS fanduct didn't warp at all, no change compared to the "cool state". So it should be safe to use under any normal circumstances.

The mount itself doesn't get warm at all. The small cooling fan does a very good job here (noisy, but effective). I wouldn't print it with PLA because I have a closed chamber. So the higher the melting temperature, the better. I want it to run reliably, even for several years.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Update!

Just added the PDF documentation. It's still work-in-progress, but it does at least help finding the needed hardware, print and assemble it.

Wiring and electronics will follow asap. My free time is limited...

By the way, source files will be uploaded as well, but they're a bit messy at the moment as I'm still adding some small parts (bowden coupler fixing ring, TC amp board fixation...)

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Cheers, thanks Jonny.

Will buy XT filament if i decide to get this print head.

I just want to avoid ABS due the lack of a hot bed and not wanting to deal with the fumes :)

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Hey Jonny,

How important is it to print at 100% fill? I printed at 20% and the parts print fine and feel ridged.

Did you have a problem that required 100% fill?

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

XT requires a heated bed as well... ;)

Did you print the parts with XT and 20% infill?

My observation was more "general", that XT becomes extremely strong when printed with 100% infill, whereas it's rather brittle when printed with the usual "2-pass, 20%" configuration.

I've uploaded my "test shape" I use to determine part strength:

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/material-stability-test

I haven't been able to destroy a part made of XT, printed at 100% infill... It's ridiculously strong. I'd probably rather break my fingers instead of the part...

Haven't actually done a comparison with 20%, I might print one out tonight..

/edit:

my 100% infill piece is actually scaled to 5mm width instead of 6. I used this as a "pause" model for a small part and noticed I couldn't crack it, no matter what :D

/edit:

Print is done. Cracked the 20% infill piece with two flat pliers, no problem...

What this means for the mount: You have a much higher risk of splitting the part where the screws grip into the material, because the layer-bonding just isn't strong enough with only 20% material. 100% material means 100% layer-bonding strength.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Wow!!! Thanks a lot Jonny.

I just received mine yesterday i was wondering to expend few hours/days to get it working. You save me a lot of time!!!!

I will print it tomorrow.

Just few questions:

Is XT stronger than ABS?

I print almost exclusively ABS with a heated chamber (i print with bed at 90º and chamber at 60) and i have no warping at all, even with big boxes (185x185) i use to print. But the closed chamber limits the fan duct size. Does it go out from the printer wall?

I will use the ultimaker heater with e3d heater block, so the heater is bigger that the e3d one so maybe it touch the fan duct... I mean to redesign fan duct before printing or not.

Thanks again. You've done very god job.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Sorry Jonny, forgot to mentioned I printed in PLA. So for PLA 20% is ok from a structure perspective. With XT it sounds like 100% is the way to go.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

R4ix, the fan duct design that Jonny is using was done by Nick and does NOT work with the UM block.

See this post a couple pages back:

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/1877-e3d-all-metal-hotend-for-ultimaker/?p=58014

While the mock up is the original Foley design, Jonny's design is dimensionally very close to the mock up and you can see the UM block interfering with the fan duct.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Duh.... Nick did a fan duct for the UM block....

Just need to add the E3D duct mount clip at the right location.

This was probably the forerunner of the one he used on the E3D V5 mount:

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/tapir-shroud-for-ultimaker#!design-information

Anyone know a way to convert the SLDPRT into something I can import into DSM? Can someone convert it to a STEP file?

/edit

Ok, so it's not as simple as adding the clip so it can be mounted. Looking at the stl, it is built with the UM1 nozzle offset in mind.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Hi!

Sorry i didn't mean to use ultimaker heater block ( i supposed it was not going to work) but um heater cartridge in e3d heater block.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Jonny, dude... You should get a flippin' medal for the instructions! Awesome work.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Thanks for the medal ;)

It is a lot of work to do, but if you're used to doing it, it takes less and less time with every design.

Imho, even the best product is worthless if you don't know what to do with it. And my mount isn't that simple to work with. Maybe even a bit too complex, but the instructions should make up for it.

I'll work on this some more, and when it's done, I have a good starting point for future designs.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

@Andi:

I'll add an electronics How-to to my documentation. I am using all the E3D stuff (24V cartridge at 19V for now, later I'll use a 24V Power supply).

This setup now only has about 25W instead of 40, but it still works perfectly fine.

You can connect the small fan to a 700mA DC adaptor, that's no problem. The fan will draw only 80 mA from the adaptor. 700 mA is the maximum for this adaptor, so you could connect several of these fans if you wanted to.

Thermistor is connected the same way as a heated bed thermistor (left and right pin of the 3-pin connector, center stays unconnected). You also need to solder in a 4.7k Ohms resistor (R23) and change the firmware so that it expects a thermistor instead of a thermocouple.

 

Very good job on the documentation, thanks a lot for your effort!

I got the 4,7K Ohms (0.5W) resistor yesterday and I should be good to go for a test now. Does it matter which cable should be connected left and right on the 3-pin connector? Should the resistor be on a certain side or is this irrelevant?

Which firmware did you choose?

gallery_20155_1061_4750.png

--> EDIT: --> 4 below selected item: 100K thermistor - ATC Semitec 104GT-2 (Used in ParCan) (4.7k pullup) (thanks jonny)

I will connect the "always on" fan with the external DC source for now. Then I will hook up the card cartridge directly to the mainboard.

Otherwise the settings are all the same like before? Do I miss something?

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

It's not the last one! The last one uses an 1k pull-up resistor (no clue why...). I made the same mistake...

The correct one for the E3D thermistor is the one which is 4 places lower than the one you selected in the picture above:

100K thermistor - ATC Semitec 104GT-2 (Used in ParCan) (4.7k pullup)

 

...

Does it matter which cable should be connected left and right on the 3-pin connector? Should the resistor be on a certain side or is this irrelevant?

...

Otherwise the settings are all the same like before? Do I miss something?

 

No, it doesn't matter for both the thermistor and the resistor (they are non-polarized components).

You should be good to go like this.

Now you just need a mount, right? :p

I'm in a bit of a rush right now, got a lot to do at work. But I'll get to it asap if you still want me to print a mount for you!

Right now, I'm trying to print Nick's fanduct with Colorfabb XT and see how well it goes. But I think ABS is preferable for that part.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

 

 

It's not the last one! The last one uses an 1k pull-up resistor (no clue why...). I made the same mistake...

The correct one for the E3D thermistor is the one which is 4 places lower than the one you selected in the picture above:

100K thermistor - ATC Semitec 104GT-2 (Used in ParCan) (4.7k pullup)

No, it doesn't matter for both the thermistor and the resistor (they are non-polarized components).

You should be good to go like this.

Now you just need a mount, right? :p

I'm in a bit of a rush right now, got a lot to do at work. But I'll get to it asap if you still want me to print a mount for you!

Right now, I'm trying to print Nick's fanduct with Colorfabb XT and see how well it goes. But I think ABS is preferable for that part.

 

Thanks for clearing the choise! I created a firmware with the 100K thermistor - ATC Semitec 104GT-2 (Used in ParCan) (4.7k pullup) setting.

IMG 20140709 234641

 

I will try to cable tie the hotend to the Ultimaker extrusion head to get the mount printed. If this approach fails, I will let you know for sure :grin:

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Small update:

Nick's fanduct also works when made of Colorfabb XT (post Feb-14). It doesn't melt...

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

something is wroooong :(

IMG 20140710 192826IMG 20140710 204205

(This is room temperatur, since I wasn't able to do any heating.)

What happens if you disconnect your thermistor from the mainboard? What does the temperature value say?

I created a custom firmware with the "Ultimaker + Ulticontroller" preset + the thermistor option and the disabled invert for the X axis, since I have a direct drive running. There is no difference if the thermistor is connected or not.

If I install the default marlin firmware out of Cura it says around 31/0 degrees (Error for MIN temperatur for some reason) but only for about ~3 seconds, then it fills up the display with white blocks and you cannot do anything anymore. (like when you do a firmware update)

Any idea? Is my thermistor broken?

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Do you have the 4.7k resistor on the board?

In looking at your second photo, you appear to have the signal side of the temp sensor input connected to one lead of the thermistor. The other lead of the thermistor appears to be connected to a resistor which is then connected to the other side of the temp sensor input which is ground.

If that is the case, it is incorrect.

The blue lead you have on the signal pin of the connector should connect to one side of the thermistor as it does currently. The black lead should go from the other lead of the thermistor to the ground pin where you have the second black lead connected.

However, you MUST have the 4.7k resistor soldered to the board in the R23 position.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

Do you have the 4.7k resistor on the board?

In looking at your second photo, you appear to have the signal side of the temp sensor input connected to one lead of the thermistor. The other lead of the thermistor appears to be connected to a resistor which is then connected to the other side of the temp sensor input which is ground.

If that is the case, it is incorrect.

The blue lead you have on the signal pin of the connector should connect to one side of the thermistor as it does currently. The black lead should go from the other lead of the thermistor to the ground pin where you have the second black lead connected.

However, you MUST have the 4.7k resistor soldered to the board in the R23 position.

 

Douh! :eek: Now I know what R23 means :-). I was wondering why I did find pictures of the board but I thought it just has to go between the 3 pin connector and the thermistor.

Thanks, I will check out what happens next :)

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

If I read the schematic correctly, you could temporarily place the resistor between the signal pin (your blue lead) and the middle pin of the connector which supplies 5V. So the blue lead would connect to one leg of the resistor AND one lead of the thermistor. The other lead of thermistor would connect DIRECTLY to the ground pin in the connector (where the second black lead is connected). Then use a third lead to go from the center pin to the UNCONNECTED lead of the resistor.

Thermistor

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

You are obviously an EE and not intimated by a soldering iron! (Did you know those things get hot?!?!?! Soooo many burnt fingers) However, I was just thinking it might be easier for some to not effectively modify the shield and attach the resistor externally.

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/e3dv6-printhead-mount-for-ultimaker-original

Here you go.

I will be completing the design with instructions, pictures and additional parts during the week.

Note that if you decide to already print the mount, you will have to look out for the small built-in supports that I placed on the edges of the two main tunnels that hold the bearings (prints much better with them!), and another "bridging helper" (same as with the tunnels) at the hole where you route the fan wiring through the main body and to the center of the mount. I'll write up the PDF documentation asap ;)

 

Hi, can you add cm3 to you stls?

 

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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

How do you mean, add cm3?

If you mean the volume of the models, I don't know how to do that... Sketchup won't calculate that for me (it's just a drawing program...).

You could derive it from Cura, use 100% infill, then take the length of filament value you get from Cura and multiply it by the cicular area of the filament.

 

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