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E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker


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Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

I'd love to make a printhead for the V6, and will do so as soon as I get my hands on one. :)

And congrats on the new design Sanjay, it's looking great, and I especially like the new fan holder! (Those printed ones were always a bit of a nuisance.)

 

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Just FYI, I believe both the UM1 and UM2 drive the heater (and steppers) at 19V. That and the easy of wiring without switching firmware or adding the 4.7k that would be required for a thermistor is the reason I asked.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    There are some other differences between the original UM heater block and the E3D (speaking about v5, but v6 shouldn't be too different regarding that):

    The E3D heater block is significantly smaller (and therefore lighter) than the UM. But the UM heater cartridge is also longer than the E3D.

    Also, you can't fit the thermocouple sensor into the E3D block. So if you want to use the thermocouple, you have to stick with the UM original block.

    I will stick to the UM heater block because my 24V heater cartridges are longer than the E3D block, and I prefer the thermocouple sensor over a thermistor.

    Switching over to the E3D hardware (block, cartridge, thermistor) would have the advantage of being a lot lighter, but I don't like their 12V heater (twice the current flow as with 24V).

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Jonny, are they truly 24V cartridges and not from UM? If so, you should know that the UM versions are 18V so a true 24V may take longer to heat up and might not be able to hit high temperatures or maintain a temperature as well as the UM version.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Yes, I bought actual 24 V cartridges.

    I'm planning to use a single 24 V power supply for the whole machine instead of the standard UM 19 V PSU plus something for the heated bed.

    The 24 V cartridges will run at a slightly decreased power level (18 V cartridges being slightly overpowered at 19 V), but that shouldn't matter much (40 W compared to 44.6 W).

    Longer heat-up times for the nozzle aren't a problem for be, because I have to wait for the heated bed anyways.

    I wouldn't advise to use the standard 18 V cartridge at 24 V, because that means it burns 71 Watts which is a lot of power for such a small heater block. Should still work (I bet people have done that...) but it's certainly more dangerous if you have any kind of failure leaving the heater on at 100%. This is actually possible, just disconnect the temperature sensor while your nozzle is heating up and see for yourself.

    The standard configuration won't burn in that case. Not enough power. 71 W is a lot more power. Maybe it won't start burning, but it should melt down the nozzle pretty good (or bad).

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Hmmm, I wonder if marlin supports a maximum PWM for the heater outputs that could be used to reduce the avg power delivered to the 12V cartridge.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    If you can build a custom firmware, then yes. Configuration.h has this line:

     

    #define PID_MAX 255 // limits current to nozzle while PID is active (see PID_FUNCTIONAL_RANGE below); 255=full current

     

    A 40 W, 12 V cartridge heater has a resistance of about 3.6 Ohms.

    At 19 V, there would be 5.3 Amps running through it, meaning 100 Watts of power (LOL!!!)

    You want to limit the current to 2.1 Amps ( 40 W / 19 V = 2.1 A)

    That is 39.6 % = 101 in the config file.

    Now, the PID should automatically settle at a very low PWM percentage, but with more than double the expected power, you'd probably get a big temperature overshoot initially, and probably a less stable temperature regulation overall, because the current resolution is lower than with the standard cartridge.

    All in all, I'd advise against using a 12 V heater cartridge and use either the UM standard one (nothing wrong with it..) or a 24 V and accepting it's slightly lower power.

    Running a 24 V cartridge at 19 V will result in 25 W maximum power output. Quite the loss, but that should still be enough to run things smoothly. You'll also get a higher PWM resolution because changing the PWM by "1" doesn't make as much a difference as it would with a cartridge running at an actual 40W max power.

    So, the less maximum power you have, the better you can regulate temperature. Therefore it's better to decrease maximum cartridge power instead of increasing it. As long as it doesn't get too weak to heat the nozzle effectively, that is...

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Good points Jonny. I didn't think about the reduction in resolution that reducing the max PWM would cause. 255->101 makes the granularity quite poor for the 12V mode.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    That's all theoretical.. ;)

    Maybe it works just as well, I don't know.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    An other simple solution would be to add a 2.2 ohm resistor in serie and you can connect it on the 19V. In my case I would put the excess heat from the resistor in my heated bed. I do not yet know if output transistors would be able to handle the larger current.

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    I wouldn't do that. You don't want to put 20 W into a resistor just for nothing (12 V cartridge on 19 V).

    That just means you need a stronger power supply, you waste a lot of energy, generate heat, and by the way you'd need to cool that resistor a lot.

    This is assuming that most users can't strap that resistor to the heated bed because most HBP designs don't allow for that.

    Better get a suitable cartridge, they're pretty cheap.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Can someone post here e3d v6 mount STL for ultimaker original?

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    I guess someone has to design one first.

    Sanjay wanted to give some v6 hotends away for willing designers... ;)

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    I am happy to adapt my EasyE3D mount for E3D v6: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:145988,%20will%20do%20that%20soon.%20Having%20one%20at%20hand%20would%20definitely%20be%20hepful%20if%20available., will do that soon. Having one at hand would definitely be hepful if available.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Jonny

    You posted first, so I suppose you win! I've added £55 of credit to your E3D account - should be enough to cover the hotend, shipping and some bearings/bushings for the mount.

    Will be interested to see what you come up with!

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Thank you very much Sanjay!!

    I'm sure you're going to like the mount ;)

    v5 mount coming soon. I'm happy with most of it, except for the fan duct. I'll try and make a mount that fits Nick Foley's great fan duct. Everything else would just be an inferior solution...

    I hope to place the order tomorrow - have to re-stock my PayPal account (someone bought too much stuff recently... o.O).

    /edit:

    @ Ultimore:

    Do you already have an E3Dv6 hotend?

    If you want to, I can send you a prototype of my design. It won't be tested because I don't have my v6 hotend yet, but if you're willing, you can test it and report back.

    Of course, I have to actually make that design first, but I can have that ready within a few days.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Jonny

    You shouldn't need to pay a penny! (Unless you want to buy extras that exceed the £50 mark to go with your free hotend) - you can just log in, shop and checkout.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    The shop credit works! I've just seen you've got a lot of other nice stuff in your shop - my cart is somewhere around 150 pounds :p

    Postage to Switzerland is always expensive so I usually try to load as much into a single order as possible...

    The v6 hotends are out of stock anyways, so that shouldn't lead to a delay. Or does it?

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Yup we're completely rinsed for stock of 3mm hotends at present, expecting resupply within the week and we'll ship them as soon as we have them. You can still place your order as a preorder.

    Switzerland really is expensive to ship to - which is a pity. Interlink/DPD do a great low cost service all over Europe for around £15 depending on where you are for up to 30kg of stuff, but it jumps to £38 for Switzerland. FedEx is cheaper.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Switzerland really is expensive to ship to - which is a pity. Interlink/DPD do a great low cost service all over Europe for around £15 depending on where you are for up to 30kg of stuff, but it jumps to £38 for Switzerland. FedEx is cheaper.

     

    Where do you ship from?

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    The UK

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    What about standard mail? I recently got many things from UK via standard mail. Nothing got lost and it was relatively quick. And I think to remember that I never had to pay a ridiculous amount. It's maybe worth checking if you haven't already.

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Actually, E3D sent me my first two v5 hotends via Royal Mail (Good price, only 10£ postage. Small parcel though). The parcel did get lost, but that was probably not their fault but ours. The parcel was forgotten in our post office - they never notified me that it was waiting there to be picked up...

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Actually, E3D sent me my first two v5 hotends via Royal Mail (Good price, only 10£ postage. Small parcel though). The parcel did get lost, but that was probably not their fault but ours. The parcel was forgotten in our post office - they never notified me that it was waiting there to be picked up...

     

    YellowFail... :sad:

     

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    Posted · E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

    Order is placed ;)

    I chose shipping by Interlink. 38£ is quite the amount, but the parcel will be a little larger this time...

    Will be testing some NinjaFlex filament and your Tufnol printing surface soon :)

    I hope this will be suitable for Colorfabb XT, too (PET-G). I tore up a 50 EUR PEI plate because XT sticks to it that much...

     

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