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le_avion

Getting very frustrated with Ultimaker 3 Extended with long prints

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I can't seem to get a break with this printer and the problems always happen during very long prints which makes it even more painful, so much so that I think I will no longer use the U3e for long prints which is a shame.

In the past I received an error about "Detected move outside of normal printer volume" that corrected itself after a reboot and a lost print and that was supposed to be fixed in later firmware. It was possibly fixed, I don't know.

Then the occasional "I2C communication error" which corrects itself after a reboot and a lost print.

Today after a 40+ hours of printing I find my printer stopped and displaying "PrintCore in head slot 1 is taking too long to warm up". Corrected itself after a reboot and another lost print.

IMG_20170716_075158.thumb.jpg.744f7343901d5cbc49107580c9c87e44.jpg

To add insult to injury, many times when I try to connect to the printer via the app I get the error that the printer isn't connected even though the app has no problem streaming video from the printer. A reboot usually fixes it.

Firmware: 3.7.7.20170627

This is getting ridiculous. I lost any confidence in this printer and I will search for a replacement, one that doesn't cost me so many failed prints. Yes, the Ultimaker 3 is very advanced technologically but with this it seems that the cost is reliability. I'd rather have a less sophisticated but reliable printer instead. For the cost of the U3e I expect much better reliability.

And this is my latest long failed print.

IMG_20170716_081157.thumb.jpg.48a3b6f85446401252565c88662efdbb.jpg

IMG_20170716_075158.thumb.jpg.744f7343901d5cbc49107580c9c87e44.jpg

IMG_20170716_081157.thumb.jpg.48a3b6f85446401252565c88662efdbb.jpg

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I'm very sorry to hear this, I feel your pain. This is not normal.

Is the white rubber silicon flap at the bottom of your printhead maybe missing? See this forum topic:

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/37150-um3-pausing-between-layers-homing-to-back-right-and-staying-there-until-user-interaction?page=1&amp%3Bsort=

I think you have the same problem as this user, only by now a time-out is built into the firmware to prevent the printer waiting too long and burning the plastic in the hot-end.

If that rubber piece is missing, get a new one with your reseller. If it is not, I'd like to see your logfiles (dump to usb, in the system-maintenance-diagnosis menu).

If you're still willing...

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I'm very sorry to hear this, I feel your pain. This is not normal.

Is the white rubber silicon flap at the bottom of your printhead maybe missing? See this forum topic:

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/37150-um3-pausing-between-layers-homing-to-back-right-and-staying-there-until-user-interaction?page=1&amp%3Bsort=

I think you have the same problem as this user, only by now a time-out is built into the firmware to prevent the printer waiting too long and burning the plastic in the hot-end.

If that rubber piece is missing, get a new one with your reseller. If it is not, I'd like to see your logfiles (dump to usb, in the system-maintenance-diagnosis menu).

If you're still willing...

 

I don't think it is the same issue since the printer didn't pause until 40 hours into the print and the silicone flap is in place. Here are some photos of the print head assembly.

IMG_20170716_101016.thumb.jpg.347361b2cc0e923c937cc6ac760a097d.jpg

IMG_20170716_101125.thumb.jpg.686871216d79d37d72e6b13e276dfa3a.jpg

The log files have very little in them probably because I had to power off the printer since I was not able to do anything once the error message was displayed, you get a modal message and that's it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5978e7ecy6b9kje/ultimakersystem-ccbdd3001a3d.3.7.7.20170627.boot0.log.gz?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttj4b1hhlqkyrs0/ultimakersystem-ccbdd3001a3d.3.7.7.20170627.boot-1.log.gz?dl=0

IMG_20170716_101016.thumb.jpg.347361b2cc0e923c937cc6ac760a097d.jpg

IMG_20170716_101125.thumb.jpg.686871216d79d37d72e6b13e276dfa3a.jpg

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What is needed is a way to resume a print when one of these catastrophes happen. All the issues I ran into and that I described above were fixed once the printed was restarted and left a perfectly printed but partial model. The firmware should allow to resume the print from where it ran into the problem once restarted. The firmware should save the failure point and it should survive a restart to make it possible to resume the print from that point on. I read recently of a 3D printer that does just that but unfortunately I do not recall the brand.

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What is needed is a way to resume a print when one of these catastrophes happen.  All the issues I ran into and that I described above were fixed once the printed was restarted and left a perfectly printed but partial model. The firmware should allow to resume the print from where it ran into the problem once restarted. The firmware should save the failure point and it should survive a restart to make it possible to resume the print from that point on. I read recently of a 3D printer that does just that but unfortunately I do not recall the brand.

 

While it would be great to be able to resume a failed print where it left off, realistically, it's problematic with an FDM printer like this.

For most materials, the heat of the bed is what holds the print in place. Once the bed has cooled (which can happen depending on what sort of failed print/error you have), the print can either come off the bed altogether or be sufficiently loosened from it that if you tried to resume the print, the print just wouldn't stay adhered to the bed and you'd end up with a printing mess.

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I have put this idea of "resuming" on our backlog list. I see possibilities, but it will have be be studied. Also, the backlog is full of good ideas, so can't promise anything.

Thank you.

The bigger issue/question is why am I running into so many issues, all when printing large objects.

"Detected move outside of normal printer volume" was an acknowledged bug that supposedly was fixed in later firmware.

"I2C communication error" and "PrintCore in head slot 1 is taking too long to warm up" have not been acknowledged yet as a bug but I think they are. First because a restart resolved both issues, at least for now. Also the PrintCore warming issue sounds very strange since it was a single material print (i.e. no PrintCore switching and no need to cool/rewarm it) and happened after about 40 hours.

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What is needed is a way to resume a print when one of these catastrophes happen.

For most materials, the heat of the bed is what holds the print in place. Once the bed has cooled (which can happen depending on what sort of failed print/error you have), the print can either come off the bed altogether or be sufficiently loosened from it that if you tried to resume the print, the print just wouldn't stay adhered to the bed and you'd end up with a printing mess.

You are right, it's not going to work with all materials but it will work with some.  I print with PETG and ASA and both stay put even on a cold bed, especially PETG which needs work to pry it off.

Which brings me to another thought, unrelated to the errors. Has anyone tried to come up with a way to use vacuum/suction to keep an object attached firmly to the bed? At least after the first few layers so as to not suck in melted material? Would this be even possible? Just a thought.

Edited by Guest

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@le_avion

Your logfiles are corrupted according to our software engineer.

The error is shown when the printer is waiting for 10 minutes to get the hot-end to setpoint. Really long. It is odd that it does not reach its setpoint.

If you find it interesting, you can check out what's happening in the temperature control loops by checking out /temperature.html, with the from your printer.

If you see this error again, could you try again to dump the logfiles to usb and post them here?

Edited by Guest

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@le_avion

If you see this error again, could you try again to dump the logfiles to usb and post them here?

If it happens again I will try to get the logs remotely via the Jedi API before I restart the printer because this may have been the reason the logs are corrupt. Once the error is displayed I cannot move out of the error message to dump the logs. Maybe a future enhancement would be to dump the logs automatically to the flash drive when a fatal error occurs.

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The log files are stored on non-volatile Flash memory. But, we see that the attached log files are mostly empty and lack the details we want to see.

Technical answer: most likely the power cycling caused the journaling file system to execute a roll back.

I like the suggestion for automatic storing the log files to USB drive in case of a critical error. We added this to our list of desired UM3 features.

Several I2C communication problems were fixed in firmware v3.6 and v3.7. All known I2C problems have been squashed, let's hope that's all.

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I have been getting the same error repeatedly as well, "printcore in head slot 1 is taking too long to warm up".

I have just a few days ago replaced the white silicone nozzle cover and also the silicone nozzle rings. I am quite sure now, that this can't be the reason anymore.

Now how can I find out, why this error appears?

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7 hours ago, The_Rob said:

Now how can I find out, why this error appears?

Can you make a copy of the system log files and share them here?

Procedure:

-  Insert a USB stick in the printer

- From the printer menu select: System > Maintenance > Diagnostics > Dump logs to USB.

- Upload the boot files and the config file to a file sharing website like WeTransfer.com (this will be 4 or 5 files)

- Share the uploaded files link here.

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Hi, included is a .zip with the log files from yesterday and today. After my last message I tried another print, I loosened the screw of the printhead pcb a little, as I read somewhere that this seems to have solved some issues.

Didn't help, print failed again, that's the second log.

Possibly interesting information on hardware: The printhead pcb is an exchanged one, as the first one got damaged and one of the contacts broke off. The printcore I was using was a Hardcore with 1mm nozzle, printing on settings of Printcore AA 0.8mm (with adjusted line width), PLA.

Second core was standard AA with breakaway filament. That stuff is brilliant.

 

I think these temperature errors started to appear only after I installed the latest firmware for using breakaway, that was in december I think.

Two weeks ago I installed the latest firmware again, to make sure there is no software error.

 

If you can find anything interesting in the logfiles, I would be very interested in how to "read" them too.

Logs (make it .zip).log

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When I look into the log files I see the next part:



Jan 02 03:00:20 ultimakersystem-ccbdd30008a5 python3[413]: 1970-01-02 03:00:20,763 INFO     waitForHeatableObjectsStep Setting target temperature of hotend-1 to 220C
Jan 02 03:00:20 ultimakersystem-ccbdd30008a5 python3[413]: 1970-01-02 03:00:20,766 INFO     procedure       WaitForHotendTemperatureProcedure(key='SET_HOTEND_TEMPERATURE_WAIT') transitioning from WaitForHotendTemperatureStep(key='SET_HOTEND_TEMPERATURE_WAIT') --> None
Jan 02 03:00:20 ultimakersystem-ccbdd30008a5 python3[413]: 1970-01-02 03:00:20,769 INFO     printerService  Procedure finished: SET_HOTEND_TEMPERATURE_WAIT
Jan 02 03:01:27 ultimakersystem-ccbdd30008a5 python3[413]: 1970-01-02 03:01:27,169 INFO     marlinProtocolHandler BUILD:Dec 22 2017 15:01:31
Jan 02 03:01:27 ultimakersystem-ccbdd30008a5 python3[413]: 1970-01-02 03:01:27,178 INFO     marlinProtocolHandler ADS1015 #0x48 ref.voltage=953

First you see the command for setting hotend-1 to 220C, this succeeds. Then, one minute later, for some reason the marlin board resets but the Olimex CPU board continues. From then on both cpu-boards are out of sync and after lots of minor error reports, the printer finally stalls on the nozzle-1 heater error but already failed a lot earlier.

 

The main reason for the marlin board to reset 12 hours into a print is because of a power dip. So, in my analysis there are two possible problem causes:

1) There was an external dip in your 230V main (I see you are from Germany).

or

2) The internal power consumption was higher than allowed.

 

My gut feeling is that the 3DSolex Hardcore is to blame. This nozzle was not qualified by Ultimaker and most likely contains wrong settings. A standard Ultimaker AA core heats up with a speed of 2.5C / second. From the log I can see the Hardcore heats at 3.7C / second, this means a more powerful heater that will consume more power and could cause the internal power supply to drop voltage.

3DSolex should have programmed the power settings into the nozzle, then the printer would have adjusted for this.

 

Another problem with this 3DSolex Hardcore is that the core also contains settings for the heater algorithm so it will regulate to the requested temperatures, so called PID-settings. I can see in your logs that these are wrong because when requested to go to 175C it actually cools down from 174C to 170C....

 

There are ways to modify the print core settings, but this isn't easy and shouldn't be made your problem.

My suggestion is you contact your supplier so they can help you fix the print core.

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1 hour ago, CarloK said:

You are running firmware 4.2.5.20180102

An update with lots of Cura Connect fixes is available: 4.3.2 of 20180308

Very funny that the firmware is not the latest, I flashed the printers on 19th of march.

I'll do it again anyways and see if it helps.

Thanks a lot for the insight, your description quite matches my expectations.

 

Would it make a difference if I use a smaller nozzle on the hardcore, like 0.8mm?

Should I use the core AA 0.4mm settings, when using hardcore with large nozzle? I seemed to be getting better results, when using the core AA 0.8mm profile (and clicking "ignore wrong nozzle diameter" at start of print).

I have a second hardcore which I could use for further testing.

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@The_Rob did this error occur during printing, or somewhere in the warm-up phase?

I assume it is the latter. 

You can then maybe avoid your power consumption problems by first manually pre-heating your printbed. When it is hot, it consumes less power since the electrical resistance of the copper traces of the bed heater has gone up.

 

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@tomnagel The Marlin reset happened 12 hours into the print, so pre-heating the build plate is not the solution.

@The_Rob Updating the firmware won't solve your reset problem but fixes some other issues. Release notes v4.3

 

It looks like the Hardcore uses a 35W heater like in the UM2 instead of the 25W from the UM3. The UM3 reduced the nozzle power because with the double nozzles there was less power headroom to spare. Updating the power supply for a more powerful version wasn't possible because of safety regulations on the used connector.

 

It is possible to write a new configuration in the Hardcore that specifies the correct heater resistance and so should reduce the power problems. Advantage of contacting 3DSolex is that they can fix this problem for all (future) users. When they do a good job they also tune the PID settings so you will get better print results.

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Okay, I will contact 3D-Solex then and keep you updated.

For now I'll just stick to using my standard cores.

 

And regarding the error circumstances, you are both right. This error did appear right at the start of a print before.

But as I have a habit of heating the bed first, then taking out the usb and prepare the gcode, that only happened a few times.

 

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I am still repeatedly getting the same error, although I have been using only the original AA cores.

It's only happening on one of my three printers, so I think I can rule out the possibility of errors on the outer electricity supply.

Could one of you please check the logs again, because I really need to have this problem fixed.

I've already wasted a lot of time and material on these failed prints, aside from the fact, that a printer not running is a printer not earning money.

 

Best regards

Robin

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