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Traveler218

UM3 Extended wont print first layer

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I have a UM 3+ Extended that I have been using since mid December. I have successfully printed PLA, ABS, Nylon and PETG. Monday I started trying to print a large flat object (with some mounting holes in it). I am printing using PETG. As in previous successful prints I started with the CPE profile and made some minor modifications to temperature, flow rate and speed to derive a profile for PETG. With this print I have not been able to get it past the first layer. I continually have problems with material not sticking to the bed, material jamming in Bowden Tube (right at the hot end) and any number of other problems. With previous prints the material stuck so well I had trouble getting it off the bed. This should be a very simple print but I have not been able to figure out what is going wrong. I have run the manual leveling, and auto leveling several times. I have tried printing straight on the glass, on blue painters tape and on glass with glue stick. What happens more time than not is that the material sticks to the nozzle until it build up to a point that it screws up the rest of the print. If I could get it past the first layer it would probably print OK, but just can't seem to solve the problem.

Would anyone have any experience printing PETG on the Ultimaker that might have some suggestions?

I also have a CEL Robox machine that prints PETG beautifully. Unfortunately this print is about 1 1/2 inches too large for that machine.

Robert

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I have used two types of PET filament. Matterhackers and T-Glase. I always put a surface of PVA on the buildplate. It helps in creating a barrier between print and glass. This allows for a quick soaking to cut the print loose. It also helps create a bit of tack for the filament.

Is your glass properly cleaned? I get real anal about cleaning my glass with something until the fingers squeak on it and then the paper towels will squeak with it. Then when I put the glass down, I clean with 79% - 99% Isopropyl Alcohol (The purer the better) and preheat it to help my layer of PVA dry and speed up the pre-print prep phase of things.

Other things to consider would include environment changes (humidity) and a good set of cold pulls and resetting your bowden tube as it may have slipped a bit up creating a gap for hot stuff to squish into.

The humidity could create a bit of moisture and prevent your PETG from moving through easily. Also, are you cleaning the dust grindings out of the feeder? Just use a clean thingy like a gravy baster to blow out fine dust as that will contaminate the plastic and create a bit of drag in the tube.

The bowden tube can pull a bit when unloading a filament if the inside is a bit sticky. The same as keeping it from flowing easily.

Hot and cold pulls may be needed to get rid of clogs that can form when using incompatible materials. For instance a use of ABS and then PLA can create a nasty clog as the filaments can mix and then bind up because they heat at different temps. When I change from one filament type to another, I always cold pull a bit and also hot pull a few while also using an up and down motion to 'plunge' the material a bit.

I then finish with cold pulls with a hot temp filament that will pull everything out.

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I recalibrated the bed level, both manually and Auto Level, cleaned the plate, put tape on the plate, did a hot pull and a cold pull, cleaned the bowden tube and the extruder and then restarted the print. It finally got through the first layer. There were a few minor flaws and a couple of clumps of melted material but all in all it looked pretty good. It continued to print through about three or four layers and then popped up with a  "Printcore in Head Slot 1 taking too long to heat up" error and the print stalled.  I'M NOT EVEN USING Slot 1. I am using slot 2. Why is it trying to heat the core in slot 1?

This has been the print from hell!!

Edited by Guest

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If I am correct, it does require a core in both slots. Do you have a core in both slots?

Also, if you do have a core in the slots, maybe try to reseat the cores. I know that sometimes when I have done pulls and such, the core can be jostled a bit if I let the cores get too cold and have to pull like Paul Bunyan to get the filament loose.

And check that the little connectors in the rear of the core are clean. I did have an issue or two a while back (Cannot remember specifics) until I pulled them out, cleaned and reseated them.

Edited by Guest

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There is a core in slot 1. As I said, the print made it through about 4 layers. In fact, it was looking quite good. The print head then parked itself in the top left corner and the error was displayed. Now I can't even bring up the menu or anything. I will be forced to power-off and restart a 35 hour print, and hope that whatever I do fixes the current problem and doesn't cause any new issues.

Arrrgh!

Thanks for the response though. I will try the items you suggested.

Robert

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Some basic things, have you cleaned the bed? (properly, possibly with alcohol?)

Have you flipped the bed, or tried to print on both sides?

Is your front fan still working on your print head? Outside of a loose cable, if there would be small strings of filament in there, it could also block the blades.

Is the silicone pad still in place, at the bottom of your printhead?

Do you have some photo's of what you first layers look like?

Have you tried the adhesion sheets for extra adhesion? (you can find them here)

Has the 'taking too long to heat up' error appeared once, or frequently?

Perhaps you want to check out this thread

Looking forward hearing from you!

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SandervG:

As I stated in the previous posts, I have cleaned the bed multiple times, With alcohol and with soap and water. this last attempt was printing on Blue Painters tape, after doing a full calibration and bed leveling. I got good adhesion and the print was successful through the 4th layer, at which time I received the "Printcore in Head Slot 1 taking too long to heat up" error.

Yes, the silicone pad is still in place and yes, the fan is still working. I had recently cleaned out the fan as I noticed it was making some noise. There were some filament strings in the fan at that time but it is currently working and not making any noise.

The taking too long error has only occurred once.

I do not have any pictures of the previous first layers. I do have the 4 layers that just failed but I don't believe a picture of this would reveal any pertinent information concerning the current failure.

I just ran the heat sensor check under the maintenance menu. I got a failure on 2 = 14 degrees. I guess I will contact my reseller to see if it is stilled covered by warranty.

Thanks for the responses.

Robert

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I tried some of the solutions suggested in other posts concerning the temp sensor failure. After pulling connectors, cleaning contacts, cycling power and various other clean-up options I reran the temp sensor test and got all passes.

I have restarted the print and It currently looks good; although, it hasn't been running long. all of the major features (hole and perimeter placement) seems to be fairly clean. I took several pictures and will post them later. There were a lot of strings spread between the features, so I did a little clean-up using tweezers. I thought this might help prevent build-up on the head and maybe reduce some of the globs of print material throughout the print. We'll see if this one is successful, 35 hours is a long time based on the problems I have been seeing.

Robert

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I was pretty frustrated last night, so I didn't post the pictures, but once again the print failed. As you can see from the first picture, it started out looking very good. All of the features were placed on the bed with good adhesion. Even in the second picture you can see that large areas of the print, at least in the beginning, printed very smooth with good adhesion. I was feeling pretty confidant at that point, and then a short time later things went south, as you can see from the second picture.

20170803_144220.thumb.jpg.0cd882120ee05b6980878b32c1c8587d.jpg

20170803_155240.thumb.jpg.965b215af2ddd3bbde47eb3b22249347.jpg

Edited by Guest

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Here is an intermediate picture showing some of the features. there is a recessed or countersunk area in the middle. As you can see it put down support material, as expected. There is one anomaly in the flat area, sort of a blob in one of the tracks. At the time I was hopeful that this would not cause a problem. I din't take any more pictures after this as I was starting to have good confidence that the print was going to be successful. I walked away to take care of some other things and when I returned I found the mess above.

20170803_144549.thumb.jpg.57f496b7076acd70dd344180f0660d32.jpg

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some other suggestions you could try:

Lower the model a little in -Z to be sure the bottom of your model is really flat.

Check if the x and y printhead axis are firmly seated in the slider blocks, https://ultimaker.com/en/community/39801-um3-critical-failure-x-x

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/49933-um3-x-axis-moves

Thanks for the suggestion.

In my early attempts to print this model (Day 1) I had exactly that problem. for some reason the smaller holes in the base had a "rim" around them that stood out about .1mm from the rest of the base. These were holding the majority of the flat base up off the plate just enough to cause it to not print correctly. I was able to go into the model and correct the issue. By rotating the print plate in Cura, it appears that the entire base is now in contact with the print surface.

I have actually gotten the updated model to print up to the 4th layer before failing, so I don't think that is the problem any more. In fact I gave the STL file to a friend of my and he was able to print it successfully using his TAZ 6 printer with no problems.

Edited by Guest

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Speaking of temperature. I can see some burned bits in the pictures. Is this coming from plastic stuck on the outside of the nozzle or is the material being cooked inside it and causing it to clog up?

Have you seen any chewing marks on the filament after it fails? As in, if you look at the filament after a print has failed, has the feeder dug a small hole in it?

Also, if I'm reading things right you have only tried with one of the cores? Could you try printing with the other AA core you got with the printer? Or even with the BB core. Just to rule out the core being at fault.

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Sorry for the delay in responding. Yesterday was a busy day and I had no time to deal with the 3D printer.

Today I cleaned up the printer and put the A4 BB head in the Print Head 2 Slot. I reran the Heat Sensor test and got all passes. I loaded the PETG material into Material 1.

Below is a picture of the print nozzles prior to the change to the BB head.

I went back to the CPE profile and set the Temp to 240C and the Bed Temp to 80, print speed is 60. I'm printing at .1 layer height with 80% infill.

I restarted the print. The model is currently printing and the outer Perimeter is looking good. I will continue to monitor and see how this one does.

5a333e1c8bddc_Ultimaker3printheads.thumb.jpg.5181a20dc46fd03eaa0ca93b1914ba84.jpg

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By the way, Yes I have seen "Chew Marks" on the filament after some of the fails. I have had several incidents of the Printhead jamming during the print. After each incident, I have cleaned material out and I have run the Clean Printhead routine. Each time that I reload the material I allow a large amount of material to flow from the head to ensure there are no further problems.  

In the case where I managed to print up to layer 4 the material just stopped flowing and again I found that it was jammed.

I have tried both print cores, and even moved from extruder 1 to extruder 2 to ensure there was not an extruder problem, like maybe it was slipping or something. It was after moving to extruder 2 that I got the Temp Sensor error.

I have sense moved back to using extruder 1, I removed the hot end from slot 2 and installed the A04 BB head. The printer is printing Layer 2 of the current print and I have not seen an issue.

PS: I also changed material from Black PETG to Grey PETG (Brand new role) just to ensure there was not a material problem. even the brand was different.

Edited by Guest

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Can someone please explain this? Once again the print failed. It ran cleanly for over 6 hours yesterday. When I went home at 5:00pm last night the print looked perfect and was still running smoothly. When I arrived this morning at 6:30 am, the picture below is what I found. The printer was still running, there was about an hour left on the print time. I was able to abort the print through the menu, so there was no evidence of a system failure. However, after I let it cool for about 15 minutes and returned to the printer, it showed the error in the second picture.

20170809_064052.thumb.jpg.70024ba2a7dee798fc5d930b0cdcbbf0.jpg

20170809_064118.thumb.jpg.5b1be7f79828b063642bb6e56d1f1c5a.jpg

I looked at the print head prior to shutting down, and it almost appeared that the head was lower than the height of the print and was digging a hole in the print. The print was a solid plate, printed at 80% infill. No support material was required and very few holes (2) where in the plate.

I just can't figure out why this thing can't print.

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Sorry if you already shared this information, but did you already specify where you got your PetG filament from, which brand(s)?

How comes the silicon padding on your photo is torn in 2? Did some filament made its way through at some point?

At your latest fail, did it look like as if the print core was lower or was that really the case? Was it printing with that specific print core, or with the other one?

I realize you want to print this model in PetG, but have you tried printing it in something else like PLA? If there are any similarities in how it fails, it could help us determine if it is a hardware problem, or perhaps the material.

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I started printing with a roll of Hatchbox Black PETG. I had previously used an entire roll of the Hatchbox Black PETG for several other prints with no problems. I also use Hatchbox on my other printer and have always had good results. When I started having failures on this machine the roll of Hatchbox was new; however, since I had seen it jam several  times I decided to try a different brand of material. I had a brand new, un-opened spool of eSun Solid Silver PETG, so I loaded that to make sure it was not the material. I have used eSun material (ABS and PETG) on this machine and my other machine with good results in the past. I also provided the roll of Hatchbox PETG to my friend who was able to use it to print the largest part of this model on his TAZ 6 with no problems.

I'm not sure why the silicone pad is torn, I noticed that as well. It appears to be seated correctly and no material is getting up inside the core. Some material may have gotten in there at some point but i am not sure when.

I think it just LOOKED like it was lower. Looking closer at the failed print, it looks like the in-fill may have failed at some point and it just wasn't adhering. It's hard to tell after the fact, but I have never seen the sort of infill pattern that this print used. The Cura Default appears to be "Triangles".

I have not tried printing this model with anything besides PETG. The UM3 is used at my place of business. At work I do not have a dehumidifier so storage and use of most materials is a problem.  For this machine I had started printing exclusively with PETG because it is less sensitive to humidity and has less of a tendency to warp than ABS. PLA is not suitable for higher temperatures (I had a print damaged when left in the car on a hot day), and Nylon is not suitable for this print. While I have a small amount of each of those materials, my last material purchase was exclusively PETG (2 rolls of Black, 2 rolls of Silver and a roll of white). In order to test this print using PLA I would need to buy another roll. Unfortunately the UM3 material is not compatible with my other printer, as it uses 1.75 mm filament.

I have printed this very same model on my other machine, at home. The other printer is a CEL-Robox. The model will just fit on the print bed. It extends to the very edge. I was able to get a very good print using PETG on that machine. The only problem was slight warping of one edge where it was setting next to the metal hold-down clip for the print bed. I assume the metal clip caused that spot to cool too quickly, causing the slight warp. Everything else about the print was perfect.

Edited by Guest

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Here is a rendering of the entire model I am trying to build. I designed it using Fusion 360. We had an urgent need for a Non-metallic Indexed Turntable for testing a north finding assembly. I designed the entire model to be 3D printed, including the assembly screw. I originally started printing the base on the UM3. After a week of fails I had a friend print the base on his TAZ6, as it was too large for my Robox.

After working on the UM3, making all of the adjustments and calibrations and changing the second core to the BB 0.4 I started working on printing the rotating platter. The platter is smaller and has fewer features, so I thought maybe it would print. It too is really a little too large for my Robox, although I was able to print it successfully. I was hoping to get a cleaner print out of the UM3. Compared to a number of other models I have printed, this should really be an easy print. It takes a long time due to the size, but it is not complicated.

5a333e2350462_IndexedTurnTableV2.thumb.jpg.4c4fd712d6760272795603310f29f302.jpg

Edited by Guest

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