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UM3 Extended wont print first layer


Traveler218

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Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

Ummm, you can PM me if it is small enough to email. Other than attaching things, I have my own FTP so I am not familiar with public methods.

Sorry I cannot be of more help on that end. If I get it tonight, I can test before I start a 4 day print. No hurries, just letting you know. I am in EST time and will be back today about 3PM to check if you have a PM for me.

Or, better yet, I can PM you with my email addy. "Yeah....that's the ticket!!" :p

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Just for everyone to see, a quick report on the testing I am doing on the print:

    The file is perfect as it lays down flat and has no issues internally or causing Cura difficulties.

    Other than one hiccup in the middle of the night, non model related (See this link), it has been printing strong for four hours now. It will be done in about 15.6 hours, but so far, so good. Material is Matterhackers Red Translucent PETG (The PETG I had available and easy to get to....it was 12AM before I got around to printing)

    PrintGoodSoFar.jpg

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Looks good. That is about how mine looked at around 5 1/2 to 6 hours when I went home for the night. One difference is that you appear to be using "Lines" as the infill pattern. I did not change the default when I printed this the first time, and I believe it used "Triangles" for the infill. As I surmised before, that could be why mine failed.

    Anxious to see how this turns out.

    Thanks!

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    It is actually "Grid" for the infill. I just went with the one that shaved off time. I think triangles gave me an extra hour. Since I am not a structural engineer, I am not sure what would be stronger. And, if they had an infill pattern that approximated a circle better, I would have gone for that as spherical is stronger than most anything else.

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    So how did it go?

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    So far, ok. I do not think I cleaned the glass enough or put enough adhesive at 3AM when I found the issue with clogging the nozzle/bowden tube. I was a bit bleary eyed. So, the print is coming out fine, but lifting off the plate/warping a bit. I would have killed the print ages ago if it was 'for real'. But I was more interested in it actually printing as the adhesion would be a different issue.

    For instance, I could have used the adhesion sheets I got when I purchased the advanced printing kit. Or, I could have upped the buildplate temp. Or just slurried the heck out of it.

    But it is printing and to finish, it still has 2.5 hours to go (About 12:30AM) and then off to start the next print, which will be about 4 daysish.

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    Posted (edited) · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    OK, the print finished.

    Here are two pics of the final project.

    BaseFace.jpg

    TopFace.jpg

    While I used a grid infill, Traveler218 used triangles, I do not think that made a difference as I have never had infill really cause issues with printing in general.

    A couple of things I would have done different if my head was working right:

    1. Printed at 240-245 and not 235 (Helps the filament stay a bit more 'sticky' when it lays down the next layer, or so they say)

    2. Turned off my fans during print. According to what I researched, fans are not good as you want the material to slow cool. Again, what "they" say.

    3. Would have used a support as the center groove was a bit rough on the last bit of closure (flipped upside down with groove arch arcing over the buildplate, flat side of model up) where it just did not quite make a clean bridge.

    4. For some reason, my printing profiles are not loading correctly from before and when I do get them in, they will not let me access other profiles such as changing from 0.2mm to "Fine" ( 0.1mm ) and processing the updated information through the system. Nothing is there to choose from as far as profiles go. More on that in another thread as this is not about Cura, but the printing of this object.

    While I had the door opening closed, I do not think I:

    a. Put enough slurry down as it warped evenly from the outside in. It was 3AM and spent most of my time fixing a clog until 4ish. So, brain cells were not fully working....as if they ever are......

    b. Cleaned the buildplate as well as usual. Squeaky glass on fingers, then massive alcohol (Isopropyl 79% - 99% pure). THEN the PVA slurry.

    I did not sweat that too much as it was not a workable print, just a test and something that reinforces the above when I have to roll my own on this again. I did get a bit lazy about letting the tech take care of things. Bad on me, as tech will always fail at the most inopportune moments. And, I know better.

    But, it does print which points to another issue other than Cura or the model. Maybe an environmental issue? Maybe filament difference? I used Matterhackers Pro Series red Translucent PETG.

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Thanks again for the assist Eric. It is good to know that the Ultimaker is a least capable of printing this. I was pretty sure it wasn't the model, as I had printed it on another machine once myself. I may go back to work Monday and try to print this on the UM3 again. I have printed two other small models since this failure and they printed flawlessly. I may try one more slightly larger print just as another test first (something between this and last last print). I have opened a ticket with support and am pretty sure one of the hot-end nozzles is bad so I will follow through with that.

    I do appreciate the support and help in trying to resolve the print issue.

    Robert

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Thanks again for the assist Eric. It is good to know that the Ultimaker is a least capable of printing this. I was pretty sure it wasn't the model, as I had printed it on another machine once myself. I may go back to work Monday and try to print this on the UM3 again. I have printed two other small models since this failure and they printed flawlessly. I may try one more slightly larger print just as another test first (something between this and last last print). I have opened a ticket with support and am pretty sure one of the hot-end nozzles is bad so I will follow through with that.

    I do appreciate the support and help in trying to resolve the print issue.

    Robert

    No worries. It sounds like you just may have something awry with your machine. Would not know where to begin, but I always think of Scotty disabling the transwarp starship by just removing 5 bolts. (Nerd alert)

    The more things gain complexity, the more prone to need perfect balance. I have been lucky. But I think your machine should still be under warranty and I would have that looked at.

    And, sometimes, things just go funky. For instance, I had a print kick my heinie last night. It was literally just the difference between the type of PLA. Not the brand (Matterhackers) but the type of PLA.

    I usually do not have any trouble with their materials and they have a broader spectrum of transparents. Since I started to design lamps and lightings, I am interested in that sort of thing.

    But, for some reason, this Neon green transparent just behaved radically different. Once I figured it out, no problem, but it just goes to show that so many things can affect printing. And all us noobs, until we get more experience(d), we do not know if it is us, the printer, the software or any combo of the above. And, I have found a lot of people just expect everything and are disappointed when it will not come straight out of the printer like an injection mold. Heck, even models require some work to fill seams, trim flashing, etc.

    But, dats whut I like 'bout dis place, maaaaaannnnnnn....da community :)

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Please keep us updated about your progress @traveler218. From both if a print core was not behaving as it should and how your next print is going.

    I was also thinking, those printers on which the PETG printed fine, what type of bed do they have? If it is not glass, it could be that PETG (or the one you have specifically) just does not adhere to glass that well. Could be interesting to give those adhesion sheets (or something similar) a try.

    The 2 small prints you made, where they also PETG or another material?

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Please keep us updated about your progress @traveler218. From both if a print core was not behaving as it should and how your next print is going.

    I was also thinking, those printers on which the PETG printed fine, what type of bed do they have? If it is not glass, it could be that PETG (or the one you have specifically) just does not adhere to glass that well. Could be interesting to give those adhesion sheets (or something similar) a try.

    The 2 small prints you made, where they also PETG or another material?

    They were PETG. I am trying a third this morning somewhat larger than the last. This one should take around 3 hours. After the second layer it looks pretty good, although it did deposit a few globs of material in the print.

    My other printer uses a PEI bed. It works well for all types of material but I do have to keep it clean. I am thinking about getting some of the adhesion sheets and maybe the "Advanced 3D Printing Kit". IF this were truly my printer I would have already purchased them. It's a little different when I have to justify the budget (even though these are not very expensive).

    The whole purpose of getting this printer at work, was to open our engineers eyes about possibilities and alternate ways of doing things. So far, with the printing problems, this has not gone too well. It's hard to justify spending more money when the results have been sub-par so far.

    Robert

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Makes sense, although, after the initial investment and understanding that not all materials can be treated equally (engineers should understand), these sheets could make all the difference and turn those results around significantly.

    Keep us posted :)

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Just to keep people posted;

    In the first picture below it appears that the print head got "Stuck" on the print. The print did not adhere to the bed and was sliding around with the head. This is why I typically use blue painters tape. It is the only thing I have found that the print will almost always stick.

    20170814_111537.thumb.jpg.b6de675a4ea58e540cea5950f4969001.jpg

    The second print I have some questions about. The last three attempts that I have made to run this print, the first layer looks "Wavy" as shown in the picture. On my other printer I would say that this is due to the Z-axis offset. The print head is too close to the bed. In Cura I have been unable to find a way to adjust the Z-offset. Has anyone else seen this, and are there any suggestions for solving it?

    20170814_121421.thumb.jpg.e8ab5b3d01ed5cc807f3cf7b9c64f3fc.jpg

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Not sure what you have going on there, but I can honestly say that I have never encountered your issues.

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    I do have a reputation for being Unique:P

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Another perfect print; it seems the simple stuff does well. I did have a couple of false starts with bed adhesion issues, but those can be attributed to user error. The print is clean with sharp edges, no warp and the support material came away without problems.

    This was printed using eSun Silver PETG

    20170815_063215.thumb.jpg.bef7f8db6a5181374bf103bbed6d68f0.jpg

    20170815_071516.thumb.jpg.4767ba3b86a8b2a516bdadef7ca6488c.jpg

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    Is it the simple stuff or the large stuff? To me, the piece that gave you troubles was an easy piece. Not complex geometry.

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    I agree, that's what had me so frustrated about printing it. This is a little more complex geometry, but I still consider it simple. The key was that it ran for 3 1/2 hours. I was concerned that I was having a problem with the cores maintaining temperature for an extended period. While this is still a long way from 21 hours, I think it gives me confidence that if everything else is set up right, the longer print should work.

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    As an engineer, I am sure that you can grok the strange nature of something like this. While the industry has really come a long way, it is still nascent. And, it takes all the pieces falling into place to get something out right.

    I can empathize with your frustrations, especially when trying to 'prove' a proven technology to your peers and it fails at odd times. I just try to remind people that tech will fail, and usually at the worst times.

    I think people have gotten to used to complex machines like phones, tablets and such doing simple tasks that they have no patience for something that requires a bit of babying. And, as robust as the UM3 series is, it still needs some TLC and not condemnation for not being the end all and be all right now(!!! Dammit!!) LOL

    Not you, but others I have seen that just get dismissive over something without being fully versed or just wanting a very narrow answer while not really explaining what they are looking for.

    Ain't no silver bullets folks. And having worked with really temperamental machines in my life (proprietary and open) this thing is a beauty to work. But, that does not mean a faulty part here or there will not go out. And, in the US, the tech support I have received is, bar none, the best I have ever had in 36 years of computing experience.

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    As I've said before, If you're not willing to get your hands dirty, 3D printing may not be for you. Being an Engineer, and previously a mechanic, and in general a Tinkerer and Maker, the problem solving aspect of it is one of the things that attracts me. Sometimes it would be nice to understand the nature of the problem I am trying to solve though. Sometimes it just defies all explanation.

    Thanks for the help and support. The community here is great.

    Robert

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    Posted · UM3 Extended wont print first layer
    Sometimes it would be nice to understand the nature of the problem I am trying to solve though.

    Ain't that the truth. The 'why' is everything to me. Drives me bonkers if I cannot find the why.

    Sometimes it just defies all explanation.
    ...and, yeah, this is true too. I have found, over time though, that eventually it will out in time as I gain more understanding of intricacies. But, with software, I accept it a lot more easily because of the nature of the beast. Sometimes software just acts weird without any other reason, but it is usually constant in behaviour. Makes it fun to find repeatable patterns for bug hunting.
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    Posted (edited) · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    I just checked with some of the experts in our community (@neotko and @dim3nsioneer), and he seems to be convinced that the pattern you see on your first layer is due to your nozzle being too close to the bed. That seems to be a logical step since you had adhesion problems, but can result in this surface.

    If you look here, you can see what a first layer looks like when the nozzle is too close to the bed.

    Unsuccessful-first-layer-2.jpg

    Some filament is being pushed back up from underneath the nozzle. On the photo those lines seem pretty aligned, so perhaps you are over extruding a little bit as well. Are you sure the filament diameter is correct?

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted (edited) · UM3 Extended wont print first layer
    @Traveler218: I assume you already ruled out that the glass is not flat enough? Edited by Guest
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    Posted (edited) · UM3 Extended wont print first layer

    I guess this thing just doesn't like working nights! Started out looking great, but then just started printing air. Nothing apparent with the clog, I was able to easily remove the filament. The only problem I found was the filament was chewed up at the extruder. This has happened before. Is it possible I need to slow down the print speed or reduce the flow rate?

    20170818_101401.thumb.jpg.61a2bd142f891b56ec2b521d77afe1d1.jpg

    By the way, this was a 54 hour print that failed after about 6 hours. The previous prints that I have done of <4 hours worked great. Why would it fail after a prolonged print?

    Robert

    Edited by Guest
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