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Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?


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Posted (edited) · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

Smoothers with 4 diodes, about the same heat and similar result, maybe slightly better than with 8 diodes, but still less good than without smoother.

Left side without smoother (only ROSC pin), middle with 4 diodes, right with 8 diodes.

IMG_9518.thumb.JPG.904388469e7c138b6a5172871238e2c6.JPG

The diodes are different types, the 8 diodes smoothers have a end-to-end voltage of some 0.8V while the 4 diodes smoothers have a voltage of 0.6V.

So my conclusion is: if you have the ROSC pin grounding of the stepper drivers in place you don't need the diode smoothers, it rather makes things worse.

Edited by Guest
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    The Duet3D board doesn't have the issue! One reason are the newer, more advanced, stepper drivers @nilrog mentioned.  Wonder why ultimaker still doesn't  set the a4988 to low-current microst

    I'm using the aliexpress 2.1.5 board at the moment, and it's working just fine.    What I did was change the MS1, MS2 and MS3 microswitches to OFF/OFF/OFF, to make the board full step, and t

    I am looking into that board and have contacted the seller to request TMC drivers with it, along with some spares.   I suspect you may well have had the voltages set incorrectly on the drive

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Just running another test without the smoothers. And the temperature of the bottom side of the board (under the stepper drivers) is the same, you can't touch it.

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    Posted (edited) · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Just running another test without the smoothers. And the temperature of the bottom side of the board (under the stepper drivers) is the same, you can't touch it.

    I did some tests with my cheap Seek addon from iphone (the old model) and the temperature with and without is around 10-25C higher with the smoothers after 1h of print time.

    Also indeed doesn't make sense to add smoother if you already did the complex solder fix. You are just changing the stepper waves and it might add errors like you get.

    Edit. Also as a general rule for um2/um2+ boards is a good idea to add a heat sink for on the stepperchips  since they have poor natural heat sink on the plastic cage. For example for UM3 Ultimaker changed how the board is aligned (flipped 180 degrees like on UMO+) and added a grey sticky thing that heatsinks the back of the stepper chips into the aluminium frame.

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    So my conclusion is: if you have the ROSC pin grounding of the stepper drivers in place you don't need the diode smoothers, it rather makes things worse.

    Have you already fixed this?

    https://ultimaker.com/en/community/16357-why-does-my-print-have-tiny-zebra-stripes?page=11#reply-163194

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    So my conclusion is: if you have the ROSC pin grounding of the stepper drivers in place you don't need the diode smoothers, it rather makes things worse.

    Have you already fixed this?

    https://ultimaker.com/en/community/16357-why-does-my-print-have-tiny-zebra-stripes?page=11#reply-163194

    Yes, that’s what I did, I grounded all Rosc pins by bridging the resistors.

    (Btw, in that post Torgeir is talking a lot of weird magic and two posts later he simply bridges the resistors. So where’s the magic? If you have good eyes or glasses, a 0.1mm wire and a decent soldering iron that is really easy, there is no magic. He’s talking organ transplant, but then the solution is to put a patch on a finger ;-) )

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Just running another test without the smoothers. And the temperature of the bottom side of the board (under the stepper drivers) is the same, you can't touch it.

    I did some tests with my cheap Seek addon from iphone (the old model) and the temperature with and without is around 10-25C higher with the smoothers after 1h of print time.

    Also indeed doesn't make sense to add smoother if you already did the complex solder fix. You are just changing the stepper waves and it might add errors like you get.

    Edit. Also as a general rule for um2/um2+ boards is a good idea to add a heat sink for on the stepperchips  since they have poor natural heat sink on the plastic cage. For example for UM3 Ultimaker changed how the board is aligned (flipped 180 degrees like on UMO+) and added a grey sticky thing that heatsinks the back of the stepper chips into the aluminium frame.

    What is complex about the rosc pin soldering / grounding fix?

    But the heat sinks make a lot of sense, the board is already darkening around the drivers. I have installed them in that printer today and will also add them to the 2nd soon.

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    What is complex about the rosc pin soldering / grounding fix?

    Well I ain't gonna play with a solder on the board unless I really need to XD I mean, if this cheap stuff works, I'm all good. I already found hard enough how to learn to solder stuff on a SMD board when my fan transistor died in 8 different times when doing fan tests, I'm not very fond of doing that stuff with something even smaller XD!

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    What is complex about the rosc pin soldering / grounding fix?

    Well I ain't gonna play with a solder on the board unless I really need to XD I mean, if this cheap stuff works, I'm all good. I already found hard enough how to learn to solder stuff on a SMD board when my fan transistor died in 8 different times when doing fan tests, I'm not very fond of doing that stuff with something even smaller XD!

    That makes sense!

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    5a33406d4ac74_Datei27_10.17144721.thumb.jpeg.867bbb79400e01bbcde0c72f19ea4dbb.jpeg

    Is the Wiring correct?:

    P1 Blue, Red, Green, Black to Motor

    P2 Red, Blue, Green, Black to Board

    I dont know why The Motor Cables not Red Blue thats why i am

    asking

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Looks correct I think @diettelo

    When the motor cables are wrong this happens:

    - Motor moves on inverse

    - Motor does weird stuttering moves (like moving forward and backwards very fast)

    So try to move a bit the motor where it’s before launching a print and check it’s fine. Just also put your hand near the switch off just in case it goes bananas.

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    Posted (edited) · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Ok cross Fingers that it is good.

    I do Major Update today update from Olsson Block Block to Matchless v3 Olsson Block add 50w Heater add the Tl-Smoother add a new PTFE and Metal Coupler V2.

    It makes me a little nervous. I know many Parts from the Pinter did a lot Upgrades but know i feel scary.

    One Question i´ve got a metall Knob with a hex screw is there a better way to fix it without Ellen Hex Key?

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    One Question i´ve got a metall Knob with a hex screw is there a better way to fix it without Ellen Hex Key?

     

    I've updated all those parts but not sure what you mean by "metal knob". A picture would help.

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    5a33406e91733_Foto27_10.17215808.thumb.jpg.fbd638758cc9d334a8e58c8d74cd2f32.jpg

    I can not reach it with hex key. So my idea was the transparent Knob Housing to drill a little small hole in it so the Ellen Hex key fit and i can screw it.

    5a33406e91733_Foto27_10.17215808.thumb.jpg.fbd638758cc9d334a8e58c8d74cd2f32.jpg

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Oh - that's a cool knob. Yeah I agree - you should drill through the transparent housing but do it from below!

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    5a3340805e303_Foto28_10.17202245.thumb.jpg.7e228d5e2d3ff7acfdd2a8a64c838a12.jpg

    5a3340808c387_Foto28_10.17202335.thumb.jpg.98de6b8e274ab556de8cf818e90d4487.jpg

    Allready drilled and screw it on nice.

    Drilling is easy

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Seems they released a 1.1 Plus TL-Smoother with 8 diodes and (they say) less noise

    Gonna buy one and test, since so far soon I’ll only have 1 machine with this boards, duet3D for the win!

    So the product is at

    http://s.aliexpress.com/ye2quMf2

    I will buy today and test when it arrives. Also seem they changed the cable extender.

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    A small update on the old (waiting the 'new') TL-Smooth stuff.

    I'm so freaking busy to report and post photos but basically using this affects how much effective torque the motors can do, and it DOES affect X/Y motors at speeds of 50-70. Also it affects specially the effective torque of the Extruder motor. So if after adding this you start to see top layers with micro gaps or less extruder power, try removing the Extruder, and if persist remove the X/Y ones. After 5 days of debugging one printer why it wasn't able to deliver quality, changing coupler (that was dead) and opening a brand new spool, measuring, etcetcetc, many wasted hours, even changed the nozzle from the ruby to e3d to remove variables, in the end the fix was just to remove the X/Y/Z/E TL-Smooths

    I think that removing just E would suffice, but also I'm so busy with Christmas productions that I can't write much. So, if something changes, try removing the stuff and try again.

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Not surprised after reading up on how these work...and that they mainly exist to fix a flaw in the DRV8825. For the driver in Ultimaker printers, IMO, shorting the resistor, as described in this forum, is the way to go...or we live with this issue.

    Or one buys a better board with modern drivers...but then...the price goes up...and it ain't much of an Ultimaker left :p

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Or one buys a better board with modern drivers...but then...the price goes up...and it ain't much of an Ultimaker left :p

     

    Yeah 300€ for outdated tech isn’t worth

    Duet3D or even a smoothie is the way to go. Think of um3 boards, they use 300€ white old board + a20olimex that they sell for another wooping 300€ and you can’t even edit the steps without the risk of bricking the machine (a week ago a friend on twitter suffer that and lost a week of production just because the machine bricked and not even with the recovery sd was able to revive it)

    Simple and modern stuff without access restrictions is the way to go if you want to have a machine that will endure the pass of time (unless you have so much cash that you just toss them like cakes).

    Ok enough ranting.

    Will test the new tl-smooth in a few weeks. So dar my machines one has tlsmooth on x/y only and the other without anything. Christmas production can’t wait :D

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    Posted (edited) · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Will test the new tl-smooth in a few weeks.

     

    You mean the 8 diode smoothers, right? I'd expect to have even more influence on the torque as they are taking more voltage off the motors.

    For me the 8 diode ones worsened the print more than the 4 diode smoothers - I reported my experience that with the the GND on ROSC in place the smoothers made things worse, not better. And with 8 diodes it was more worse than with 4 diodes, so whatever they do gets stronger with the 8 diodes.

    Btw, I could offer to send some to you for free, ordered too many and have them lying around with no use.

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Thanks @conny_g no need. Already ordered. Anyhow will be probably my last test of this. January I will order my third duet3d and finally say goodbye to this old hardware, also will change all the printers to gudoxycore

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    January I will order my third duet3d and finally say goodbye to this old hardware

    What firmware are you using with the duet3d boards?

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    Posted · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    January I will order my third duet3d and finally say goodbye to this old hardware

    What firmware are you using with the duet3d boards?

    Info about their firmware

    https://duet3d.com/wiki/Firmware_differences_from_Marlin,_Repetier_etc.

    Isn’t marlin, also all firmware doesn’t need to be ‘flashed’ to change any jey setting, some need a reboot but everything is gcode defined. Very handy

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    Posted (edited) · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    3kYTU29e.jpg-large.thumb.jpeg.4730d4975f184b58df9e2d2348d5f31a.jpeg

    This was the problem I was having

    Same spool

    Same printer

    Same day

    Removing the TL-Smooth fixed the issue. Ofc maybe it was that the filament had trouble to be pushed by my feeder, but clearly shows that it lowers the effective torque.

    Edited by neotko
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    Posted (edited) · Manual - How to install TL-Smooth - Zebra Strippes Fix UMO - UM2 - UM3?

    Hi Neotko,

    Long time no see.. :)

    Your observation is sure correct, the diodes decrease the power to the stepper coils (the heat created on the diode pack). So there is always a kind of "drawback" when we make correction for single issues.

    There is a third - way to overcome such a problem we see in this  setup, if we want to have the best result here..  This is to move the drivers as close as possible to the steppers in order to avoid such a high "harmonic ringing" in the stepper feeder wires. However, the driver have to be separated from the stepper to avoid the heath from the stepper motor. (This is not very easy to do on the UM2 versions.) The long feeder wires, especially on the extended versions, create additional inductance to the whole circuit and make this problem worse.

    Edit:

    To relocate the drivers increase complexity and ofc. the price, but there is room and possibility on an Ultimaker for sure..

    I was thinking of moving the mother board high up on the back side of the printer (an ext ver) in order to decrease the feeder length, but never did.

    Hmm. Maybe I'll try this, but later on..

    Anyway, very interesting topic, keep up the good work.

    Regards

    Torgeir.

    Edited by Guest
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