Read/Write NFC Tags

[rachael7 73]

Awesome information, thank you! I will try those tags for sure!

[Bunnyman21 11]

On 6/21/2021 at 2:33 PM, Monroe07 said:

I've got evidence that perhaps the size of the tag plays a role in its reliability to be read and in only certain positions. I tried several different sizes and brands of tags and have decided to use the ones sold on amazon at the following link because they work reliably.

 

Larger NFC Tags

 

Here is what I did to test the several brands/sizes of tags.

- I created a material that made it clear that the printer was in fact detecting the test tag and not an Ultimaker tag from the adjacent spool(i.e. the brand was my name and the display name for the material was "Test Material" )

- I wrote the test material info to a tag (Thank you so much everyone involved in the spool maker program and scripts, it really has been a great and convenient tool!)

- Tested that the tag was in fact read at several orientations (used the diagnostics tool on the printer to see the tags detected by the printer. I placed it on the spool holder at an orientation and then once detected, removed it and waited for it to no longer be detected and cleared off the screen, rinse and repeat at 8 different orientations; 0 degree's, 45, 90, 135 ect.)

 

What I found was the tags in the 25mm diameter range had to be placed at in a way that that the edge of the tag was nearly rubbing on the Ultimaker's spool holder as it rotated. I have had great success with eSun brand PLA+ and ABS on several different printers, and since, unlike Matter hackers spools, eSuns's spools tend to have a small hole in the center and a gap between the center hole and the actual surface that the filament is wrapped around (and wall of the spool), it was not at a position that was reliable.  I found tags in the 40mm range were reliable all the way out to the edge of a spool!

This is awesome! I also use the eSun materials quite a lot so I might try and order some of these to try. I was sticking the smaller 25mm tags on the inside of the centre hole and found they mostly worked, but there were a few places it still wouldn't detect correctly.

 

I never tried the diagnostic tools on the printer, will have to try this out too. Ideally, I would love to find a way to attach the tags without sticking them on, so I can transfer them to another spool once they are empty. At least the tags are cheap though if I can't.

[Monroe07 8]

I'm talking with a few suppliers of custom NFC tags. They all say they can make tags with antenna dimensions that are the same as Ultimaker NFC antenna's and using the same NTAG216 device. Unfortunately due to the nature that they're a custom size, the initial cost is kinda high. They have to make the tooling to make the tags. Anyone Interested in splitting an order of 100 Tags? I am waiting on a reply for specific cost from 2 other companies and can update when I find the lowest price of the 3 or so companies I've heard back from. The idea is to have the same functionality and range (or better) than the Ultimaker tags. I'm designing a "clone" of the S5's material station but for the UM3 and 2 spools, so the NFC portion has hung me up the most.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Monroe07

[rachael7 73]

I’m interested. Let me know when you have some numbers. 

[rachael7 73]

Just tested the Amazon ones you recommended. They do indeed work much better than the smaller ones I found. Thank you again!

[Smithy 1,144]

Sorry if I ask a silly question, I haven't read all posting in this thread, and don't understand me wrong please, I really appreciate the effort to solve this issue. But I personally want to understand why it is important for you and if it is really worth the effort to have a NFC enabled spool for 3rd party materials. 

 

I mostly print with 3rd party spools, but I never missed the NFC detection. You save just the 2 clicks during loading to select the right material from the printers menu, nothing more. Or do I miss something? Maybe for the material station, I don't know, I don't have one.

 

On most of my printers I use spool holders on the side, so I disconnected the original spool holder with the NFC board completely and I never missed the functionality. Thats why I am much more curious what's the intention behind this effort.

 

And again, please don't understand me wrong, I just want to understand it 🙂 

 

[rachael7 73]

1 hour ago, Smithy said:

Sorry if I ask a silly question, I haven't read all posting in this thread, and don't understand me wrong please, I really appreciate the effort to solve this issue. But I personally want to understand why it is important for you and if it is really worth the effort to have a NFC enabled spool for 3rd party materials...

 

It matters more with the material station. There are workarounds, but once you've gone to the trouble to do the workaround, it only takes another few moments to make a tag to get the rest of the functionality. It speeds loading, removes any chance for a mistake, and allows the printer to track the usage on the NFC, so you know if you have enough on the roll to finish the job. So yes, it's worth it for me. Is it for everyone? Judging by the small amount of traffic on this thread, I'd say probably not.

[Smithy 1,144]

Thanks for the clarification. You are right, with the material station it matters more and is probably really needed, especially when you have i.e. several generic spools with different colors loaded. Makes sense!

 

[Monroe07 8]

For me personally first and foremost, I like to work on tech projects among my many other types of projects, so its fun for me. Learning about the intimate details of NFC tags/data also allows me to be able to use that knowledge in other projects as well in the future. That thought process really does open a Lot of doors in terms of what you're able to do on your own without a having to be at the mercy of a company to design/make something for you. What initially caught my interest was the filament usage data and how Cura will let me know what rolls I currently have loaded on the machine. I have different profiles for different brands of filament and materials so knowing which filament is loaded prior to slicing is a must for me. My machine is on the other side of the room so being able to see it in Cura saves me the trouble of physically getting up to look before I slice a part. I had the fortune to be able to play with a Ultimaker S5 Pro bundle for a short time before I bought a UM3 about a month ago and I loved how easy it was to use Ultimaker filament with the material station thanks to the NFC tags and a humidity controlled enclosure. To that end, I'm working on a material station "clone" for my UM3, which is why I initially joined this thread.

[Smithy 1,144]

Thanks for your feedback!

 

6 minutes ago, Monroe07 said:

To that end, I'm working on a material station "clone" for my UM3, which is why I initially joined this thread.

 

If you have a prototype, please show us some pictures!

[Monroe07 8]

Sorry It's taken me a while to get back on here, I'm hung up on replacing the NFC reader with one of my own.

 

If you'd like to see my topic on trying to get the new NFC reader tor work, you can check it out, its Here.

 

Ive got an enclosure built and parts 3d printed to both hold the filament spools and route it to the feeders as well as new feeder boxes to use Bowden tube inlets, but the range of the NFC reader will define where I can mount the filament spools so the project is hung up there. I can post some pics as well as share the 3d printed parts I've designed.

[Monroe07 8]

I fixed the issue and am now using a third party PN532 NFC breakout board for an NFC reader with no modifications to the Printers software! I'm now waiting for the NFC board I will be using in the final product.

[Maker2 3]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:38 PM, Smithy said:

Sorry if I ask a silly question, I haven't read all posting in this thread, and don't understand me wrong please, I really appreciate the effort to solve this issue. But I personally want to understand why it is important for you and if it is really worth the effort to have a NFC enabled spool for 3rd party materials. 

 

I mostly print with 3rd party spools, but I never missed the NFC detection. You save just the 2 clicks during loading to select the right material from the printers menu, nothing more. Or do I miss something? Maybe for the material station, I don't know, I don't have one.

 

On most of my printers I use spool holders on the side, so I disconnected the original spool holder with the NFC board completely and I never missed the functionality. Thats why I am much more curious what's the intention behind this effort.

 

And again, please don't understand me wrong, I just want to understand it 🙂 

 

 

As others have written already, it is incredibly convenient when combined with a material station (and multiple printers) for the S5.

 

Personally, for spools which I "load and use to completion" (such as DPA or PVA support material) I usually don't bother adding an NFC tag to them -- there's not much being time saved.

 

However for spools that I need to load/unload several times (such as rarely used colours or materials) having them be autodetected by way of an NFC tag is an incredible convenience. It also takes the uncertainty out of asking somebody not used to the printers, to "load a spool  of filament XXX into whichever slot is free".

 

So yeah, a convenience, not a necessity. In the same way as the material station itself is a convenience, but not a strict necessity for multi-material printing.

[Smithy 1,144]

Thanks a lot for describing your use case.

[servant74 1]

For me, it is mainly to 'understand' the tech and hopefully be able to use it to help others.

Being retired, none of it really matters much, but I enjoy learning and learning more.

[rachael7 73]

On 6/22/2021 at 8:38 PM, Bunnyman21 said:

 

 

Hi Bunnyman! I'm not sure if you're getting notified on Github, so I figured I'd ping you here in case you didn't see it. I found a minor bug in CuraMaterial.py, proposed a fix, and put in a pull request. Never done one before though, so I apologize if I did it wrong. Anyway, CuraMaterial.py was not getting the most current user directory for the materials on Windows systems, if the user had certain past version numbers remaining on the system. A little change to the sort function fixed it right up. I don't know how to compile an executable though, so I'm just running off the Python version for now. Perhaps you can compile a new executable if you approve of my change. Thanks!

[Bunnyman21 11]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:57 AM, rachael7 said:

 

Hi Bunnyman! I'm not sure if you're getting notified on Github, so I figured I'd ping you here in case you didn't see it. I found a minor bug in CuraMaterial.py, proposed a fix, and put in a pull request. Never done one before though, so I apologize if I did it wrong. Anyway, CuraMaterial.py was not getting the most current user directory for the materials on Windows systems, if the user had certain past version numbers remaining on the system. A little change to the sort function fixed it right up. I don't know how to compile an executable though, so I'm just running off the Python version for now. Perhaps you can compile a new executable if you approve of my change. Thanks!

Hey Rachael, thanks so much for finding and fixing the issue! I hadn't tried using it with the newer Cura versions yet. I have merged your change and applied the fix for MacOS and Linux too. The new compiled version is now on GitHub. Oddly enough, the exe is a third of the previous size, yet seems to still be working (no idea what I did). Please let me know if you find any issues.

Thanks!

[rachael7 73]

2 minutes ago, Bunnyman21 said:

Hey Rachael, thanks so much for finding and fixing the issue! I hadn't tried using it with the newer Cura versions yet. I have merged your change and applied the fix for MacOS and Linux too. The new compiled version is now on GitHub. Oddly enough, the exe is a third of the previous size, yet seems to still be working (no idea what I did). Please let me know if you find any issues.

Thanks!

Happy to help! And really, it was the least I could do after all the work you put in to make it in the first place. I'll try out the new .exe and let you know if I run into any issues. Thanks again!

[rachael7 73]

Has anyone tried using two NFC tags 180 degrees apart on the spool? I'm finding that the tags read very consistently, but only when they are within the area of the dividers (where the antennae are). So if the filament isn't cut off at the right spot, it is awkward to hold the spool with the tag in the antenna while simultaneously getting it into the pre-feeder. I was just toying with the idea of using two identical tags so that one would always be in, or at least close to, the antenna area. Would having two of them confuse it? Given that it never seems to read them when they're not in the antenna, I'm guessing no? Thoughts?

[Bunnyman21 11]

On 1/22/2022 at 9:28 AM, rachael7 said:

Has anyone tried using two NFC tags 180 degrees apart on the spool? I'm finding that the tags read very consistently, but only when they are within the area of the dividers (where the antennae are). So if the filament isn't cut off at the right spot, it is awkward to hold the spool with the tag in the antenna while simultaneously getting it into the pre-feeder. I was just toying with the idea of using two identical tags so that one would always be in, or at least close to, the antenna area. Would having two of them confuse it? Given that it never seems to read them when they're not in the antenna, I'm guessing no? Thoughts?

While I have not tried that myself (I'm building up a collection of empty Ultimaker spools to reuse haha), I would imagine that the remaining filament would be incorrect? For example, whichever tag is in range will be the one that receives the updated remaining filament? I guess if you only care about loading the filament though it wouldn't matter too much if only one is in range?

[rachael7 73]

21 minutes ago, Bunnyman21 said:

I would imagine that the remaining filament would be incorrect?

You are correct, of course, and I feel a bit silly for not thinking of that. Dang, thought I had a solution. Oh well, I guess it’s either live with fussy reading or respool onto empty Ultimaker spools as you are doing (where it will only be slightly fussy).

Edited January 27, 2022 by rachael7

[GoguyT3d 8]

I was originally searching for a topic related to extending the nfc reader to another location (my rubbermaid drybox) but I fell in here, I dont have a material station but I use just as many 3rd party filament as NFC ultimaker filaments. If the printer is what's holding all of the "remaining filament" data then why not add the option in firmware to manually enter filament length/weight so the printer can subtract it from the value you put in? All you would need to know is the filament density and weight and you could get length

[rachael7 73]

1 hour ago, GoguyT3d said:

I was originally searching for a topic related to extending the nfc reader to another location (my rubbermaid drybox) but I fell in here, I dont have a material station but I use just as many 3rd party filament as NFC ultimaker filaments. If the printer is what's holding all of the "remaining filament" data then why not add the option in firmware to manually enter filament length/weight so the printer can subtract it from the value you put in? All you would need to know is the filament density and weight and you could get length

 

The remaining filament weight is actually stored on the spool tag itself.  It's in memory register 2F, to be specific.  The tag also stores original weight (register 2E) and printing time in seconds (first three bytes of register 31).

Edited October 11, 2022 by rachael7

[GoguyT3d 8]

14 hours ago, rachael7 said:

 

The remaining filament weight is actually stored on the spool tag itself.  It's in memory register 2F, to be specific.  The tag also stores original weight (register 2E) and printing time in seconds (first three bytes of register 31).

Gotcha, FYI this all seems above my head at the moment but I am definitely interested in the creation of your own NFC tags for 3rd party filament(if it were easier fir me) I downloaded NFC Tool and scanned a ultimaker nylon spool and didn't understand a single thing in there. I hope that an app shows up to make this easier for people like me.

[rachael7 73]

2 minutes ago, GoguyT3d said:

 I hope that an app shows up to make this easier for people like me.

Further up-thread somewhere, there is a link to the SpoolMaker project on GitHub, which is just the easy-to-use app you’re looking for. There’s also info on what tags work. If you read most of the thread, you’ll get the info you need to make your own tags, it’s not hard.