Ultimaker 4, The next generation of 3d printer

[orkulkarni 0]

I hope it provides better print quality and reliability

[Swissengineer 25]

6 hours ago, orkulkarni said:

I hope it provides better print quality and reliability

Are you sure your problems are with the printer? or the interface between the chair and computer....

[rebekah_harper 60]

I have to admit that’s so funny. 

 

Harsh but funny.

 

[Marco_TvM 34]

23 hours ago, orkulkarni said:

I hope it provides better print quality and reliability

If you can explain what kinds of problems you're having, there are a lot of people here that might help you with your issues.

[Brulti 176]

- 9 points autoleveling.

- Bed glasses that are actually truly flat, not bent in a U shape, even if slightly.

 

Plus pretty much everything else that was said previously on this thread.

[SandervG 1,518]

2 hours ago, Brulti said:

- Bed glasses that are actually truly flat, not bent in a U shape, even if slightly.

 

Not? Oh.. I will pass this on to R&D

But a 9 point auto leveling system would probably correct for any curve anyway (although I totally agree it should be just flat!) 

[Brulti 176]

7 minutes ago, SandervG said:

Not? Oh.. I will pass this on to R&D

But a 9 point auto leveling system would probably correct for any curve anyway (although I totally agree it should be just flat!) 

 

This is true, so, I guess having that would already be a huge improvement. But combining it with flat glasses would be even better, since it would mean less work for the printer as it corrects the unflatness while printing, and prints that look better.

 

I had three glass beds so far, and all three are bent. The first one was so bad that, in the middle, the extruded material would barely touch it, leading to huge adhesion problems, while the sides would actually touche the printcore as it traveled, leading to ultra thin first layers, or just nothing as it couldn't extrude, so it had to be replaced.

 

Perhaps you could ask for some help from astronomers about how to produce flat glass:

 

 

Although, I do admit that a precision of a billionth of a meter might be a bit overkill, and the production time are insane, but still...

[SandervG 1,518]

Did you get new glass plates via our resellers? I don't know how much time has past in the meantime, but you should have been able to do so.

After a few months ago there was an increase in bent glass plates we re-evaluated the process of manufacturing with our manufacturer and they have improved the process. It had something to do with some post processing (high heat) to harden the glass. 'New' glass should be much flatter. We can argue what 'flat/100% flat' is, as you say there is also something like an overkill, but it should fall within what is workable for you and the 3D printer and provide you with sufficient bed adhesion. 

[Brulti 176]

Yes, I got a replacement by my reseller without problem. They were quick to reply, very professional, I wish every customer service was like that. I'm French, reseller was @MakershopFR, give them brownie points in your internal reviews because their customer service was very good on the few occasions that I needed to call them.

 

I got my printer in July last year, realized there was a problem by the beginning of August, after much fiddling with the printer and searching online to ensure this was no user error. So, I guess I was unlucky to get it when the bad batch of glass plate had gone out.

 

Out of curiosity, I've seen some other 3d printers, professional ones, so, higher price range, use a laser for checking the bed leveling. I know UM has developed it's own way of doing so, but I was curious to know if this is a solution that had been considered for bed leveling and, if yes, why was it rejected? If not, would it be considered for the UM4?

[SandervG 1,518]

1 minute ago, Brulti said:

Out of curiosity, I've seen some other 3d printers, professional ones, so, higher price range, use a laser for checking the bed leveling. I know UM has developed it's own way of doing so, but I was curious to know if this is a solution that had been considered for bed leveling and, if yes, why was it rejected?

I'm not entirely sure. @tomnagel , do you know?

[tomnagel 124]

The sensor that we have implemented is very light weight and hardly takes any space. The measurement accuracy of the complete system is very high, reproducibility is below 10 microns. Next to that, due to the smart algorithms that we created, we measure the distance between glass and tip of the nozzle.

A laser might reach 1 micron accuracy, but a laser does not measure between the tip of the nozzle and the glass plate, so you introduce extra errors. And it will probably be heavier and a lot more expensive.

 

[CarloK 190]

Detecting the build plate with a laser was considered but rejected for reasons I can't recall. Laser sensors are often relative large, expensive and difficulty is that it has to work on a perfect clean glass plate but also on a tape covered build plate and other surfaces like glue. Besides that it is not the distance from the print head to build plate we need, but the distance when the (interchangable) nozzle hits the buildplate, and this for both nozzles.

 

Suggestions for other detecting methods are welcome though.

[Brulti 176]

Thank you for your answers, @tomnagel and @Indy31. It's always interesting to get a glimpse of the thinking processes that went behind some decisions. ^^

[ahoeben 1,767]

Wouldn't it be a lot more logical to expect an Ultimaker 3+, before an Ultimaker 4 though?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I would not know about that.....I am not sure what would qualify for a UM3+ as we already have the UM3X already. If I am not mistaken, the + designation came with larger build area.

[ahoeben 1,767]

The UMO+ was the same size as the UMO, the UM2+ was the same size as the UM2, and the UM2 Extended+ was the same size as the UM2 Extended.

 

The UMO+ brought the UM2 electronics to the UMO, the UM2+ brought the extruder that would later be part of the UM3 to the UM2 (as well as the Olsson-esque heater and nozzles). I would expect an UM3+ to be a fairly small upgrade, with a number of improvements and features that did not make it to the original UM3 release.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Ahhh...thanks for the info

[Labern 773]

yes I would expect the UM3+ to come before the UM4 but i don't think the changes would be huge. Maybe just address the bulk of the common issues same as the UM2+ upgrade along with some small improvements. So its a bit more fun to speculate what the UM4 could be like.

 

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I am kinda leaning towards this:

 

[fergazz 60]

On 31/01/2018 at 2:11 PM, tomnagel said:

The sensor that we have implemented is very light weight and hardly takes any space. The measurement accuracy of the complete system is very high, reproducibility is below 10 microns.

 

 hummm... 10 microns is an awesome accuracy!

 

I think that Ultimaker should considerer test glass-ceramic. Mine is suuuper flat, I'm loving it!! I can take it straight from the bed to the refrigerator or freezer without deform over the time (as advertised), it's cool and not overpriced for the final consumer... at least in my country!

 

@neotko created this topic a year ago, starting the discutions: A better Bed Glass - Neoceram Glass

 

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by fergazz
link for topic

[neotko 1,417]

7 hours ago, fergazz said:

 

 hummm... 10 microns is an awesome accuracy!

 

I think that Ultimaker should considerer test glass-ceramic. Mine is suuuper flat, I'm loving it!! I can take it straight from the bed to the refrigerator or freezer without deform over the time (as advertised), it's cool and not overpriced for the final consumer... at least in my country!

 

@neotko created this topic a year ago, starting the discutions: A better Bed Glass - Neoceram Glass

 

 

 

Curiosly yesterday bough a neoceram to test on my sigma, and it was worse than the borosilicate glass. Seems bcn can get 0.1 max error borosilicates, and they also can hold high temperature. The part that I think is most interesting on this kind of glasses is that they (like you said) don't break on temperature changes, and also they don't change size while heating/cooling, that's also important to get an stable Z. I wish I had cash to do real tests on this stuff, is so fun to experiment

[ksmilejun 1]

Ultimaker 4를 시작할 때?

[ksmilejun 1]

On 2017. 11. 9. at 9:26 AM, Troki said:

안녕하십니까, Ultimaker 3이 출시 된 지 오래되었습니다. 앞으로 몇 주 또는 몇 달 후에 새로운 3D 프린터가 Ultimaker 4에 출시 될 것으로 기대하십니까?

And how about Ultimaker 5, 6, and 7?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

9 minutes ago, ksmilejun said:

안녕하십니까, Ultimaker 3이 출시 된 지 오래되었습니다. 앞으로 몇 주 또는 몇 달 후에 새로운 3D 프린터가 Ultimaker 4에 출시 될 것으로 기대하십니까?

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And how about Ultimaker 5, 6, and 7?

안녕하십니까, Ultimaker 3이 출시 된 지 오래되었습니다. 앞으로 몇 주 또는 몇 달 후에 새로운 3D 프린터가 Ultimaker 4에 출시 될 것으로 기대하십니까?  Translated through google translate:

" Hello, Ultimaker 3 has been around for a long time now. Do you expect to see new 3D printers in Ultimaker 4 in the next few weeks or months? "

 

Ummmmm, it has only been out for about 16-17 months depending on where you are. Do you want fast and crappy or moderate and properly designed and tested?

 

That is the problem with software these days. They all got on this yearly cycle and more and more all of it needs patches and fixes because of being rushed. And the worst? Many times they are not improving the product, just moving buttons around and making people relearn interfaces for no reason at all. I compare the current tech industry as a whole to the car industry in the 50's and 60's in America. "Buy our new CAR!! It is so different because we made the tail fin 2 inches higher and moved a few radio buttons around!". Same engine, chassis and interior, but, new buttons and tail fins!!. And hardware is more difficult because it involves manufacturing and materials.

 

I would rather wait for solid and ready than fast and crappy.

[Gigi 43]

I wonder if 1.75mm filament  AA core 0.25 and a bowden tube for it could be an intermediate upgrade ?