Question(s) for those with Bondtech Extruders/DDG Extruder thoughts?

[StephanK 30]

I just installed one of these new DDG for Ultimaker on my trusty old UM2+.. Install couldn't have been any easier, but I did run into a bit of a snafu at the end.

Either I do not understand the Bondtech manual or Bondtech uploaded the wrong firmware. It says firmware for UM2+, but when I flash it my extruder axis is reversed, so I think this is actually a UM2 non plus version (I think they were "backwards).

Next: none of recent cura version seem to be able to flash my UM2+, all attempts end with a com error sooner or later. Ancient old 15.xx did the trick in the end. Cura is making it really hard for me to like it ;-)

I ended up grabbing a copy of the latest TinkerGnome, lacking proper fw on the Bondtech site.

Seems to work well, too tired to do test prints, this took longer than expected. Will play with it tonite.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

so the difference between the QR and the DDG apart from the obvious is the Steps/mm?

as they are universal, could 2 QR's be fitted to the UM3?

sure. I don't see why not. If there's the possibility to change esteps you can basically use any feeder you want.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I ended up grabbing a copy of the latest TinkerGnome, lacking proper fw on the Bondtech site.

.

then you should be fine now. The tinkerware will let you set esteps and rotation direction.

[cjs 34]

Sorry for the late reply.

First things first: @mendells Link to my UM3-gcode and cura project files to test feeder performance cylinder-test-025mm.zip

@StephanK Sorry to hear that you had some trouble with the firmware provided. I just recently flashed an UM2 extended+ with Ultimaker Cura (3.0 I believe) and everything worked fine. Anyhow I will talk to Martin to make sure the UM2+ firmware is correct.

I hope you're all happy with your DDG upgrade! If you have any suggestion for improving the installation manual or the DDG please tell us

[Hammerd 0]

I ran some smaller prints first, but I'm halfway through a 4-1/2 day print right now and they're chugging along. I'm very happy with them so far.

No issues with the hardware or software.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Guest

[cjs 34]

I ran some smaller prints first, but I'm halfway through a 4-1/2 day print right now and they're chugging along. I'm very happy with them so far.

No issues with the hardware or software.

Great Thank you for the feedback!

[Hertz 0]

Hi guys, I just today recieved and installed my Bondtech DDG and installed their new driver.Hardware is definitively awesome, but somewhere something is wrong, as anything I tried to print looked like porridge cause of super-over excrusion. Now I'm printing at 25% Material Flow and it kinda looks right, will probably go down a bit more for next print. Still, there must be a value somewhere thats a bit off that I can do to rectify this? ( ie. it pushes out at least 4 times as much plastic as it "should" at 100%)

I also installed Tinkerware and it gave problems on the X,Y axis. (I tried a few times back and forth between tinker, ulti, and bondtech's drivers, Probably part of the problem) So for the end of the day I factory rebooted it with ultimakers drivers, and then again, with the bondtech. 

Any idea where the problem is hiding? Changing flow only masks it, and is unprofessional!

[StephanK 30]

I am by far no expert on this, so hopefully somebody more knowledgeable will chime in shortly, but meanwhile: Is it possible your steps/mm for the extruder are set too high? Kinda sounds like it. Maybe try a factory reset after flashing - oh, and what printer are you using?

[Hammerd 0]

12 minutes ago, Hertz said:

Hi guys, I just today recieved and installed my Bondtech DDG and installed their new driver.Hardware is definitively awesome, but somewhere something is wrong, as anything I tried to print looked like porridge cause of super-over excrusion. Now I'm printing at 25% Material Flow and it kinda looks right, will probably go down a bit more for next print. Still, there must be a value somewhere thats a bit off that I can do to rectify this? ( ie. it pushes out at least 4 times as much plastic as it "should" at 100%)

I also installed Tinkerware and it gave problems on the X,Y axis. (I tried a few times back and forth between tinker, ulti, and bondtech's drivers, Probably part of the problem) So for the end of the day I factory rebooted it with ultimakers drivers, and then again, with the bondtech. 

Any idea where the problem is hiding? Changing flow only masks it, and is unprofessional!

Confirm you changed, and saved, the "default_steps_per_mm" value in the firmware.

I've had my UM3, with the new DDGs, running almost 24/7 since I installed them. No issues.

 

[cjs 34]

Hi @Hertz, really happy to hear that you like your new Bondtech DDG 

Let's try to fix your firmware issue. I assume you own an Ultimaker 2+ or extended+. 

Did you remember to do the factory reset after you uploaded Tinkerware? It's actually quite important as you may end up with wrong values otherwise.

If you don't want to upload new firmware to your printer you could also just start the following g-code file to overwrite the old e-steps:

steps-bondtech.gcode

Hope this helps and fixes your problem!

[latreides 4]

30 minutes ago, Hertz said:

Hi guys, I just today recieved and installed my Bondtech DDG and installed their new driver.Hardware is definitively awesome, but somewhere something is wrong, as anything I tried to print looked like porridge cause of super-over excrusion. Now I'm printing at 25% Material Flow and it kinda looks right, will probably go down a bit more for next print. Still, there must be a value somewhere thats a bit off that I can do to rectify this? ( ie. it pushes out at least 4 times as much plastic as it "should" at 100%)

I also installed Tinkerware and it gave problems on the X,Y axis. (I tried a few times back and forth between tinker, ulti, and bondtech's drivers, Probably part of the problem) So for the end of the day I factory rebooted it with ultimakers drivers, and then again, with the bondtech. 

Any idea where the problem is hiding? Changing flow only masks it, and is unprofessional!

 

I installed Bondtech DDG on my Ultimaker 2+, and this is what I did:

1. Install the Hardware.
2. Install the TinkerGnome build from TinkerGnome's website (make sure you install the right version!)
3. Reset to factory defaults
4. Calibrate the bed (this occurs during the wizard after a reset)
5. Set the steps per mm to the correct value (unfortunately this can only be done, afaik, after the wizard completes)

Note that the change filament routine doesn't use the steps per mm that you set in the normal fashion.  Unfortunately there is no good way to do this.  The suggested solutions are to patch and build your own version of TinkerGnome or use the version that Bondtech has already provided (and hope they keep it relatively updated). 

 

I think that the solutions are worse than the problem, so I just deal with it.  The down side is that when changing filaments (with the change filament routine) it doesn't completely retract the filament (it gets about 95% of the way there and you have to use the quick release to remove the rest) and the initial feeding of the filament doesn't feed as much during its "quick" phase so you wait a little longer for filament to come out the nozzle.

[Hertz 0]

2 hours ago, StephanK said:

I am by far no expert on this, so hopefully somebody more knowledgeable will chime in shortly, but meanwhile: Is it possible your steps/mm for the extruder are set too high? Kinda sounds like it. Maybe try a factory reset after flashing - oh, and what printer are you using?

 

It is quite possible it is to high, but it was good before I changed, and the change is not that immense. It is litterally exruding four times as much as needed, and that doesn't correspond to the difference in the two excruders.
I bought a used UM2 that I upgraded to a "+", and now put this Bondtech excruder on.

 

2 hours ago, Hammerd said:

Confirm you changed, and saved, the "default_steps_per_mm" value in the firmware.

I've had my UM3, with the new DDGs, running almost 24/7 since I installed them. No issues.

 

 

I confirm that I did.....nt do that. I updated the driver from their (Bondtech) site. That's what I thought I was supposed to do. Works best so far, except for the now obligatory and quite inexplainable 25% flow situation.. 
I was playing with Tinkerware the other week and liked it, except for when it made the machine go loco. I tried it today again, and it still did make it go loco, and I simply havent found the relevant numbers to put in for not to break of an axis, yet. Otherwise it is what I hope to get running on permanence soon enough. I want my UM2+ running almost 24/7 too. For reasons...

 

2 hours ago, cjs said:

Hi @Hertz, really happy to hear that you like your new Bondtech DDG 

Let's try to fix your firmware issue. I assume you own an Ultimaker 2+ or extended+. 

Did you remember to do the factory reset after you uploaded Tinkerware? It's actually quite important as you may end up with wrong values otherwise.

If you don't want to upload new firmware to your printer you could also just start the following g-code file to overwrite the old e-steps:

steps-bondtech.gcode

Hope this helps and fixes your problem!

 

Yes, I can see a huge difference in the grip, pull and grinding actions of this superior piece of hardware! Really a good investment that will pay itself of in the long run in sawed filament and non-failed prints!
I did factory reset it quite a few times today. I don't even know what do do with that G-code file.. 

1 hour ago, latreides said:

 

I installed Bondtech DDG on my Ultimaker 2+, and this is what I did:

1. Install the Hardware.
2. Install the TinkerGnome build from TinkerGnome's website (make sure you install the right version!)
3. Reset to factory defaults
4. Calibrate the bed (this occurs during the wizard after a reset)
5. Set the steps per mm to the correct value (unfortunately this can only be done, afaik, after the wizard completes)

Note that the change filament routine doesn't use the steps per mm that you set in the normal fashion.  Unfortunately there is no good way to do this.  The suggested solutions are to patch and build your own version of TinkerGnome or use the version that Bondtech has already provided (and hope they keep it relatively updated). 

 

I think that the solutions are worse than the problem, so I just deal with it.  The down side is that when changing filaments (with the change filament routine) it doesn't completely retract the filament (it gets about 95% of the way there and you have to use the quick release to remove the rest) and the initial feeding of the filament doesn't feed as much during its "quick" phase so you wait a little longer for filament to come out the nozzle.

 

I did those same five steps. Alas, I must have displeased the god(s?) of electronics today. Tinkerware bugged for me to much, and I reinstalled and rebooted the machine completely.

Yeah, those problems are hardly problems at all! I can live with those if I can avoid grinding filament and stopping hour-long prints with this much better excruder. And yes, those solutions are complicated. To complicated for me, too!

 

 

Perhaps there is a memory to empty or some odd number somewhere? What is striking me while looking at this testprint I printed here and now, is that exactly 25% flow is needed. ie. Somewhere its "times 4" on the calculation on how much filament to excrude. does definitively not correspond to a mix-up with steps/mm. I can not for certain say its because of the Bondtech driver, or... Dum dum dum.... A ghost in the machine? A kid changing a setting in my Cura installation to mess with me?? It works so well otherwise!

 

 

Thanks for all the responses and helpful advice guys, much appriciated!

[cjs 34]

46 minutes ago, Hertz said:

 

I don't even know what do do with that G-code file.. 

You can load the G-code file on your printers SD card and start it from the print menu on the printer. It will tell you that the file isn't meant for the machine as it misses the machine specific presets. Press ignore and print and your e-steps should be set for the Bondtech DDG. 

 

Pushing four times as much sounds really odd  May I ask what happens when you load your filament? If it pushes four times as much filament you shouldn't be able to load filament without problems. 

 

Do you mind checking your Ultimaker Cura installation just to make sure this isn't the problem. 

Do you currently run UM firmware or the linked UM firmware with the Bondtech DDG settings? 

[Hertz 0]

Yeah, I have tried everything in my power. Loading the files from two different computers, a PC and a Mac, so it shouldnt be Cura.

I installed the drivers and factory rebooted several times. All different versions. in Tinkerware I see that the E-steps are now correctly 311, and when I "move material" 100mm I saw with my digital caliphers that it was exactly 100mm... But still, prints turn to porridge!

 

CJS: between yesterday and now until I reinstalled Tinkerware, it pushed it not even a quarter of the tube in the "change material" sequence. Now I tried that again thanks to your question, and with Tinkerware it pushed it almost all the way as it should. Still, the printing looks like porridge.

 

I'm fairly certain it is something completely random fault somewhere, but I just cant find it!

[tinkergnome 927]

5 hours ago, Hertz said:

Yeah, I have tried everything in my power. Loading the files from two different computers, a PC and a Mac, so it shouldnt be Cura.

I installed the drivers and factory rebooted several times. All different versions. in Tinkerware I see that the E-steps are now correctly 311, and when I "move material" 100mm I saw with my digital caliphers that it was exactly 100mm... But still, prints turn to porridge!

 

Assuming that the (standard) UltiGCode-Flavor from Cura is used, I would check two things:

• Does the selected nozzle diameter in Cura corresponds to the line width (and the installed nozzle on the printer)?
• Are all material settings on the printer still correct (especially the material diameter)?

Good luck!

[Hertz 0]

Yes, it is correct. I should probably open a separate thread for this, as by now I am certain what isnt the fault. It isnt the fault of the extruder, just something hidden somewhere. Probably something embarrassingly simple, but so far, I havent found it. but it isnt nozzle or filament diameter. 

Well, now I am printing a 24h print, it works well, only had to adjust flow quite a bit. I hope a solution will appear,but until then I guess I'll accept the anomality, s I couldnt find a solution over almost two days of my spare time doing almost only that! 

[marcottt 0]

HI, i see this a pretty old tread but i try....  just buyed trianglelab Bowden Extruder BMG extruder Cloned Btech Dual Drive Extruder from trianglabs, put at 415 step/mm, on my anycubuc plus printer.
For normal operation extruder is very good, but i cannot move material at speed higher than 75mm/s  becasue bad sound and block...  seem like gears did not like speed or motor cannot do 5 times spedd than standard (default are 90step/mm).

Did anyone some ideas ?

thanks

 

Marco

[bondtech 25]

Contact Trianglelabs support? I am sure they will give you the answers you are looking for.

[rebekah_harper 60]

37 minutes ago, bondtech said:

Contact Trianglelabs support? I am sure they will give you the answers you are looking for.

 

A serious subject with irony, but none the less amusing response.  

Meanwhile, I love the genuine article on my UM3 managed to fine tune it perfectly.

👍🏼 It’s amazeballs 

[ultiarjan 1,223]

you get what you pay for, dimensional accuracy of Chinese clones can be terrible... it does not have to be... but its a risk for sure...

 

[marcottt 0]

On 2/8/2019 at 7:17 PM, bondtech said:

Contact Trianglelabs support? I am sure they will give you the answers you are looking for.

Support from trangelabs is nothing.  They only say some stupid things to get 15 day warranty time. 

They say to ask to bondtech.... But this is a clone I don't think bondtech answer this.... 

[marcottt 0]

10 hours ago, ultiarjan said:

you get what you pay for, dimensional accuracy of Chinese clones can be terrible... it does not have to be... but its a risk for sure...

 

Yes maybe. 

But this is a small hobby for me, I don't want to spend too much 

[rebekah_harper 60]

7 minutes ago, marcottt said:

Support from trangelabs is nothing.  They only say some stupid things to get 15 day warranty time. 

They say to ask to bondtech.... But this is a clone I don't think bondtech answer this.... 

Bondtech already gave their answer 😱

[Smithy 1,144]

But you can't assume that if you buy a cheap clone in China, the original manufacturer will provide support for it. The problem with China clones is that they look very similar from the outside, but the inside is made very cheap, so don't be surprised if it doesn't work properly.

 

12 hours ago, ultiarjan said:

you get what you pay for

And that's the point.

[marcottt 0]

i made this video for support, but trianglelabs did not answer anymore. 
Aliexpress refound me, but i prefer to have extruder work.... 

anyway, see it...
https://youtu.be/96d6NT9LaA0

 

thanks