Ultimaker S5 | impressions & opinions

[Huxster2000 0]

Does anyone here know if its possible to print a functional internal M8 thread on the 5s' highest resolution? 

[Carla_Birch 116]

49 minutes ago, Huxster2000 said:

Does anyone here know if its possible to print a functional internal M8 thread on the 5s' highest resolution? 

Have not tired on my S5 yet but I have done so on my flashforge printers a number of times and it works and that was at 0.10

[Huxster2000 0]

Is that 0.1mm layer height or nozzle size?

[Carla_Birch 116]

14 minutes ago, Huxster2000 said:

Is that 0.1mm layer height or nozzle size?

Layer height with a 0.4 nozzle

[Huxster2000 0]

Perfect, thank you so much!

[asb 7]

For me, the S5 is becoming a massive dissapointment. After several months,

 

• it is still not possible to calibrate the X/Y/Z axis for accuracy;
• there is still no aluminum print bed; and
• Cura 3.4.1 PPA does not recognize the printer anymore when connected through Wifi.

Except for the aluminum plate, all these issues already are existing for years. They have not been resolved.

In reality that might mean for you:

• You can not access your printer through networking, only with USB stick - bad!
• You can not get precise prints with exact dimensions - bad!

 

[kmanstudios 1,120]

1 hour ago, asb said:

it is still not possible to calibrate the X/Y/Z axis for accuracy;

What is your accuracy on printed objects? I have gotten within .2mm of accuracy when I was testing mine out.

 

1 hour ago, asb said:

Cura 3.4.1 PPA does not recognize the printer anymore when connected through Wifi.

Have you done a cura connect reset on the printer?

 

1 hour ago, asb said:

there is still no aluminum print bed

It was advertised as when available. What are you printing that needs that at this moment?

 

1 hour ago, asb said:

Except for the aluminum plate, all these issues already are existing for years

Ummm, just how long have you had your S5?

 

[robinmdh 100]

9 hours ago, kmanstudios said:

11 hours ago, asb said:

Cura 3.4.1 PPA does not recognize the printer anymore when connected through Wifi.

Have you done a cura connect reset on the printer?

There is no official PPA  AFAIK so this is out of our control, we can't make old software magically do new tricks. Please use the AppImage version provided for Linux. (and yes try doing a cc reset)

Edited October 24, 2018 by robinmdh

[kmanstudios 1,120]

28 minutes ago, robinmdh said:

There is no official PPA  AFAIK so this is out of our control, we can't make old software magically do new tricks. Please use the AppImage version provided for Linux. (and yes try doing a cc reset)

Well, THAT explains a few things......?

[asb 7]

> […] we can't make old software magically do new tricks.

 

Connecting a printer with Wifi is not a "new trick". It worked before.

 

The Appimage is trash. It's slow, it does not integrate with the os environment and it is not maintained through os mechanisms (apt package management). The existence of a operational Debian repository was one of three criteria to purchase the S5. If the repository is broken like last year, it's a clear reason for Debian/Ubuntu/Mint users not to buy a S5.

[Smithy 1,144]

32 minutes ago, asb said:

The existence of a operational Debian repository was one of three criteria to purchase the S5. If the repository is broken like last year, it's a clear reason for Debian/Ubuntu/Mint users not to buy a S5.

 

Then you should blame the one who created and maintain the Debian repository, as far as I know it is not maintained by Ultimaker.

[asb 7]

5 hours ago, Smithy said:

 

Then you should blame the one who created and maintain the Debian repository, as far as I know it is not maintained by Ultimaker.

Firstly, Ultimaker hired the repository maintainer, if memory serves right, about a year ago. It's nothing but ridiculous to keep refusing to support this one repository.

Secondly, who says that the PPA version is the root cause for Cura's problems to connect with the printer? Last year it was that bloody Appimage which could not connect with the Ultimaker 3 (which became a showstopper for productive use).

Honestly I am sick and tired of a company who sells a device in this price range and refuses support on all levels. Cura? Help yourself, it's open source. Configure a static IP address? Unsupported. X/Y/Z axis calibration? Undocumented or supposedly even impossible, if you attempt to calibrate you risk your warranty as it requires SSH access to the printer which is - you might have guessed it - unsupported, undocumented and explicitely not recommended.

Refusing to support their device does not stop Ultimaker from selling it incomplete. When the Ultimaker 2, 3, and S5 come onto the market, documentation was fragmentary at best. Documentation became usable about 6-9 months later. That's a whole product cycle for certain products. The Ultimaker products are put onto the market much too early, when they are still immature or simply not fully functional. We purchased the S5 three months ago, including an aluminum build plate. All we got until now is a piece of paper saying that they will sometime send this part. They did not tell us before purchasing that the device wasn't functional yet. In the past three months we did not get the aluminum plate, so we have payed for vaporware.

FFS, the S5 is supposed to be an easy to use device for professional use, not a toy for geeks. If I switch it on, I want that it just works. I do not get payed to debug this thing week after week.

Edited October 25, 2018 by asb

[Shadowman 53]

4 hours ago, asb said:

Firstly, Ultimaker hired the repository maintainer, if memory serves right, about a year ago. It's nothing but ridiculous to keep refusing to support this one repository.

Secondly, who says that the PPA version is the root cause for Cura's problems to connect with the printer? Last year it was that bloody Appimage which could not connect with the Ultimaker 3 (which became a showstopper for productive use).

Honestly I am sick and tired of a company who sells a device in this price range and refuses support on all levels. Cura? Help yourself, it's open source. Configure a static IP address? Unsupported. X/Y/Z axis calibration? Undocumented or supposedly even impossible, if you attempt to calibrate you risk your warranty as it requires SSH access to the printer which is - you might have guessed it - unsupported, undocumented and explicitely not recommended.

Refusing to support their device does not stop Ultimaker from selling it incomplete. When the Ultimaker 2, 3, and S5 come onto the market, documentation was fragmentary at best. Documentation became usable about 6-9 months later. That's a whole product cycle for certain products. The Ultimaker products are put onto the market much too early, when they are still immature or simply not fully functional. We purchased the S5 three months ago, including an aluminum build plate. All we got until now is a piece of paper saying that they will sometime send this part. They did not tell us before purchasing that the device wasn't functional yet. In the past three months we did not get the aluminum plate, so we have payed for vaporware.

FFS, the S5 is supposed to be an easy to use device for professional use, not a toy for geeks. If I switch it on, I want that it just works. I do not get payed to debug this thing week after week.

As much as I have had many great experiences with the S5; sadly, you are sharing many of the thoughts that I have shared. Particularly after the dismal deployment of Ultimaker Cura 3.5.

 

Like you, I purchase what was solicited as a long term tested commercial printer that was to be pert near plug and play and paid; comparatively speaking; a premium for it however, I too feel as if I am smack dab in the middle of a development curve; this curve being Ultimaker’s.

 

And yet unlike you, I still hold out hope that they will deliver as promised as such I openly expresss my thoughts, share my concerns, implement work arounds as needed, assist others when I can, and throughout; I remain support of the Ultimaker printer because; I think it is a good product supported directly and indirectly by many many folks that care.

 

My last comment included “care” which is pivotal to how I feel today.

 

In my opinion whether an open source environment or not the proverbial buck begins and ends with the core Ultimaker team. 

 

You mention how responsibly was shifted as if to say; not/no longer our responsibility and yet it is and soliciting products into and for the commercial arena carries with it responsiblies far beyond those of the hobbiest and enthusiasts. Now this in no way diminishes anyone’s value but rather the associated risk and cost burden is different between the groups.

 

In closing, I too have had my moments of frustration as such truly understand where you are coming from and your ever increasing frustration. For examples; I too was told after the fact that there was no easy way to implement static IP, experience random issues with the printer that akin to a ghost, come and go, firmware issues, Ultimaker Cura 3.5 deplyment issues, and yet I would encourage you to do as I have and take a deep breath and let the process become mechanical rather than emotional because the later will prove to be a fruitless exercise in futility.

 

I will restate; I think that the Ultimaker team want to have the best printer line in the marketplace and because they care I believe they will do it. If I did not I would have boxed the S5 up and shipped it back because at this moment; just like you, it is “not” all that I was promised.

 

Takes care 

[asb 7]

@Shadowman: Thanks for backing me up.

I fully agree that there are a lot of good things about Ultimaker. For example this forum and the idea behind the Cura software.

However, we started with Ultimakers a couple of years ago. Went through UM2 to UM3 and then to the S5. Price increased massively, some gimmicks were added, a few flaws were ironed out. But quality did not increase in a healthy relation to the price.

The UM3 (Extended) could have been a decent printer. But Ultimaker messed it up with dishonest specs about the build space and disfunctional software. Yes, I am referring to the Appimage last year. Connecting through the network was hit & miss over months, people started to hate working with it; build space was much smaller than advertised; print accuracy was inferior due to the lack of X/Y/Z axis calibration. Bottomline is, it was not a productive tool, only a nasty time & material waster with erratic results. Until we pulled the plug and dumped it.

The S5 could have become a really nice printer, but again, Ultimaker is messing it up big time. Big promises and marketing blurb, but weak engineering. And what is really annoying - all these issues have been there before, some were promised to be fixed, others are being ignored completely. Trying to work productively with the S5 is 'Groundhog Day' every time - déjà vu, Cura doesn't find the printer, like last year. Déjà vu, printed parts crack and break because accuracy is not fit to print engineering parts.

$1000 printers can be calibrated. And they can print engineering parts after X/Y/Z axis calibration.

The Ultimaker people should think about this before romancing that X/Y/Z axis calibration is not necessary. They are just wrong.

My wish for Ultimaker in 2019 would be: Spend less money on marketing, spend more money for proper engineering.

[Shadowman 53]

1 hour ago, asb said:

@Shadowman: Thanks for backing me up.

I fully agree that there are a lot of good things about Ultimaker. For example this forum and the idea behind the Cura software.

However, we started with Ultimakers a couple of years ago. Went through UM2 to UM3 and then to the S5. Price increased massively, some gimmicks were added, a few flaws were ironed out. But quality did not increase in a healthy relation to the price.

The UM3 (Extended) could have been a decent printer. But Ultimaker messed it up with dishonest specs about the build space and disfunctional software. Yes, I am referring to the Appimage last year. Connecting through the network was hit & miss over months, people started to hate working with it; build space was much smaller than advertised; print accuracy was inferior due to the lack of X/Y/Z axis calibration. Bottomline is, it was not a productive tool, only a nasty time & material waster with erratic results. Until we pulled the plug and dumped it.

The S5 could have become a really nice printer, but again, Ultimaker is messing it up big time. Big promises and marketing blurb, but weak engineering. And what is really annoying - all these issues have been there before, some were promised to be fixed, others are being ignored completely. Trying to work productively with the S5 is 'Groundhog Day' every time - déjà vu, Cura doesn't find the printer, like last year. Déjà vu, printed parts crack and break because accuracy is not fit to print engineering parts.

$1000 printers can be calibrated. And they can print engineering parts after X/Y/Z axis calibration.

The Ultimaker people should think about this before romancing that X/Y/Z axis calibration is not necessary. They are just wrong.

My wish for Ultimaker in 2019 would be: Spend less money on marketing, spend more money for proper engineering.

You are welcome and I simply shared my experiences which; ugh ... mirrored some of yours as well as thoughts in general.

 

Unlike you; I have had a relatively short relationship with Ultimaker however, I expressed my concerns with Ultimaker based on experience with other printers before committing to the S5. If I had walked your walk fir a few years my level of frustration would have already grown exponentially.

 

As I shared; I expect the promises as made to me by Ultimaker to be kept and my expectations met as such I remain trusting. 

 

Considering that the S5 has only been in the retail pipeline for 5-6 months and mine with me only 5-6 weeks I am willing to give them a bit more time for the key issues to be resolved. Do I think that myself and others without volunteering; became S5 product testers; sadly yes akin to the ridiculously botched deployment of Ultmaker Cura 3.5 that cost me both time and money.

 

There are fundamental operational issues that I look for the next firmware to correct; at least this is what I have been told. I only wish I was also told “when” because being in the proverbial dark sucks.

 

Now I do believe that the S5’s potential is significant however, “only” if Ultimaker completes that which was started rather than saying; well that one is in the proverbial bag and moving on to the next one. I need to believe that this is their plan or I would simply move on because as it is now, I am dealing with pervasive issues as I did for years with a big difference; those prior printers were comparatively speaking; “cheap” and were not sold as a commercial printer as such I accepted and dealt with much inconvenience. However, in the case of the S5; it was marketed and sold as a “ready for prime time” commercial printer and if “only” based on price darn well better be. In my case I have close to $10K invested in the S5 with spares and Ultimaker branded NFC filament. A figure that does not concern me “if” that which I paid for is equal to or greater than what I was promised.

 

We are not there yet.

 

Add to all that I shared; 

 

Easy menu driven static IP provisioning, multi axis calibration, the ability to turn the light off when not being used without having to actually turn the printer off, aluminum build plate, and the new version of Ultimaker Cura that works as solicited.

 

Seem like reasonable expectations.

 

Takes care 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Shadowman
Additional

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi asb and Shadowman, thank you both for your responses! 

It's always helpful to hear back from our users, the good reviews but also the critical notes that help us grow and understand your tangible expectations. It sounds like there are some areas where our products did not meet them, which is something we regret. We continuously improve our products and I hope your expectations are met in considerable time. Your feedback helps.

A few things are said which I like to follow up on: 

ASB, you said Cura came with a culture of 'help yourself', can you elaborate on which aspect of the software you feel you are left behind? I feel like it is widely supported here and by our resellers, and even our software engineers are involved with our community. 

 

Can you also elaborate on how or why the cracking of prints is related to dimensional accuracy? Do you mean they crack when you try to fit them in another object due to deviating dimensions, or do they crack due to thermal properties of the material itself? If the latter; I don't see how this relates to dimensional accuracy. It's may still be an issue though, but I want to avoid confusing terms. 

 

Seemingly most in this thread, I've read a few times about multi-axis calibration. I was wondering if you could elaborate (in detail?) what you would aim to achieve with this and how you would expect it to work. Perhaps we can provide another guide or this functionality if we understand the need better. 

 

Regarding connectivity issues, is your Ultimaker connected to wifi or via a LAN cable? Wifi can be less stable depending on the number of connected devices in the area, the router which is being used and other things which are outside of our control. If there is a possibility to connect via a LAN I would recommend to do so. 

 

In general, it is not uncommon for Ultimaker to add new functionality to our products after launch. I think that is nice because your product gains more value in terms of functionality and usability over time. Obviously, we aim to do this hassle-free.If a downside of that cycle is that it introduces an unstable user experience (through a missed bug or just the continuous changing of things.) perhaps we could reconsider this strategy. Collecting user feedback is crucial here. Generally speaking, is this something you could appreciate or do you prefer no new features and plain stability? 

 

Speaking of improvement though, next week we'll launch a new firmware for the Ultimaker S5 which should include some connectivity stability and allow you to turn off the lights on your Ultimaker S5 for example. More detailed release notes will follow with the launch. 

 

Hope this helps, thank you again for your feedback!

[Shadowman 53]

Thank you SandervG 

 

Your well thought out, informative, and supportive reply is exactly what I anticipated and frankly; one of the primary reasons that I became an Ultimaker customer as it makes clear that as a team; Ultimaker “cares”.

 

As I have shared many times; I think the S5 is a great printer that simply needs to have the final stages of products solicitations implemented. I have every reason to believe that this will happen as evidenced by your notice of the upcoming firmware release; this is wonderful.

 

I remain happy with my decision to purchase the S5 and am excited to see the printers features and attributes continue to unfold.

 

Thus far the S5 has produced numerous stunning prints most of which have been multiday prints using PVA; many of which truly amaze me.

 

Yes I have made clear my investment in the S5 printer but not as the means to share concern but rather to make clear my commitment to Ultimaker.

 

I recommend the Ultimaker printers and highly recommend the S5 in particular because of the features exclusive to it at this time.

 

Thank you again SandervG as well as the Ultimaker Team; stay focused and keep up the good work.

 

Takes care.

 

 

 

 

[Bigbrit 8]

WiFi stability fixes? I'm down.

 

Will you also impliment the firmware upgrade part of the menu so that it is easier to understand? Currently you have no idea whether you are on the latest version already and are re-installing the firmware or are upgrading.

[Shadowman 53]

13 minutes ago, Bigbrit said:

WiFi stability fixes? I'm down.

 

Will you also impliment the firmware upgrade part of the menu so that it is easier to understand? Currently you have no idea whether you are on the latest version already and are re-installing the firmware or are upgrading.

WOW!!

 

What timing; I tried to remote in to my S5 about 30 minutes ago and was unable to and now back at the office I open Ultimaker Cura and nothing; the S5 shows as an available network printer but is not and will not connect.

 

Time to restore Cura Connect “again”.

 

I sure hope the firmware update next week that SandervG spoke of fixes this as it has remained a constant problem since day one and it far more than a simple inconvenience.

 

By the way; I too am on WiFi with a MAC assigned IP.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Shadowman
Additional

[Xalara 6]

I think, given my experiences with my Ultimaker 3 there is a pattern with the launch of a new printer being relatively rough. I know for several months after the launch of the UM3 the documentation wasn't fully fleshed out. So the launch process is definitely an area where Ultimaker could improve.

 

Cura is the best free product on the market and has been improving by leaps and bounds. It's arguably better than certain paid apps so I am confused about the complaints here. Granted multiplatform support always gets weird.

 

Beyond that, I had a rough few initial months with my machine. However I am really happy with it. The biggest issue facing FDM at the moment is that, as a process it's reaching some upper limits. Unfortunately FDM's natural progression, polyjet, seems to be patented to heck, so it'll be interesting to see where Ultimaker goes from here.

[Shadowman 53]

1 hour ago, Xalara said:

I think, given my experiences with my Ultimaker 3 there is a pattern with the launch of a new printer being relatively rough. I know for several months after the launch of the UM3 the documentation wasn't fully fleshed out. So the launch process is definitely an area where Ultimaker could improve.

 

Cura is the best free product on the market and has been improving by leaps and bounds. It's arguably better than certain paid apps so I am confused about the complaints here. Granted multiplatform support always gets weird.

 

Beyond that, I had a rough few initial months with my machine. However I am really happy with it. The biggest issue facing FDM at the moment is that, as a process it's reaching some upper limits. Unfortunately FDM's natural progression, polyjet, seems to be patented to heck, so it'll be interesting to see where Ultimaker goes from here.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

It is because of comments such as yours and others that I remain happy with and yet anxious for the S5 release issues to be tended to because the frustrations have been many. 

 

IMO; the S5 has the potential to be a truly fantastic printer.

 

My only rebuttle has to do with your comment about Cura being the best free slicing platform; as much as I agree with this comment with a caveat as I used it with other printers as such, I acknowledged this and accepted without questions the issues associated with a free software utility. 

 

However, prior to purchasing the S5 I was assured, as it is also marketed by Ultimaker that Ultimaker Cura was designed to work with the Ultimaker printer. This is why I was beyond frustrated with the botched Ultimaker Cura 3.5 deployment; I still am dumbfounded by it.

 

In any case.....

 

Now, even though on paper Cura is “free” to the world it is being funded, supported, and maintained by the Ultimaker customers as such; it is “not” free to Ultimaker owners. Yes, I am fully aware that as an open source software utility that anyone can twist and tweak it; furthermore many unpaid folks contribute on a relentless level nonetheless; when I open Ultimaker Cura to use with my Ultimaker printer I will not accept the “hey”, but it’s free comments but rather I rightfully expect it to work with my Ultimaker printer; because this is what I was promised as such agreed to pay for.

 

No there was not a line item cost on the invoice for Ultimaker Cura nor was there a line item for glass doors, camera, etc. but rather a package price that defined many things including; Ultimaker Cura.

 

This is not a complaint but rather, I don’t want folks, much-less Ultimaker, to accept or hide behind the idea that Ultimaker  Cura is free for the owners of Ultimaker printers because it is “not”.

 

Thank you again for your shared experience.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Shadowman
Edit

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Kinda hoping that they new firmware is a bit more robust on the sensor readings for initial leveling and whether it is the firmware or a software adjustment needed, I am getting really tired of having to manually reload prints when it detects a "Difference in nozzle height" and just kills the entire job.

 

And by robust in sensor readings:

1. I have, just for the hell of it, cycled it to run a reloaded print (I have learned to have about 3-5 of them ready to go just because it has been such an issue) without doing additional cleaning, and it worked.
2. Sometimes the buildplate does not even make it to the nozzles when it kicks out
3. And then will run just fine if I just cycle in another print

If it gets past that point, the automatic bed leveling does very well. It just seems to be at that one point when it wants to be a diva and just complain because I did not leave out the green m&m's.

[Shadowman 53]

2 hours ago, kmanstudios said:

Kinda hoping that they new firmware is a bit more robust on the sensor readings for initial leveling and whether it is the firmware or a software adjustment needed, I am getting really tired of having to manually reload prints when it detects a "Difference in nozzle height" and just kills the entire job.

 

And by robust in sensor readings:

1. I have, just for the hell of it, cycled it to run a reloaded print (I have learned to have about 3-5 of them ready to go just because it has been such an issue) without doing additional cleaning, and it worked.
2. Sometimes the buildplate does not even make it to the nozzles when it kicks out
3. And then will run just fine if I just cycle in another print

If it gets past that point, the automatic bed leveling does very well. It just seems to be at that one point when it wants to be a diva and just complain because I did not leave out the green m&m's.

Your experience with the Active bed leveling has been the same as mine.

 

I too have simply reloaded doing nothing and typically the second try it works however, I have made it a practice to make certain there is nothing on the Print Cores; particularly the BB Print Core and most of the time it works.

 

When it fails it is always at the beginning of the Active bed leveling process and never once the 48 point pattern has begun.

 

Takes care.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

16 minutes ago, Shadowman said:

When it fails it is always at the beginning of the Active bed leveling process and never once the 48 point pattern has begun.

yup. But once working, that massive check finds the anomalies in the glass used and really does a nice job compensating for that.

[Shadowman 53]

45 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

yup. But once working, that massive check finds the anomalies in the glass used and really does a nice job compensating for that.

I have presented this to the distributor and more importantly; the Ultimaker team from day one. Initially I accepted their story that something may have still been on the Print Core however, when the Print Core moves to the right rear corner with the AA Print Core to complete the initial resistance check it fails almost immediately; this is long before it swaps to the BB Print Core to complete its resistance check.

 

As I have shared in several posts; it is very frustrating and yet I remain patient as I have been assured by the Ultimaker team that significant known issues and operational characteristic improvements are being tended to within the firmware; with the new firmware to release in a few days I remain very hopeful.

 

Add to this; I am tired of the WiFi disconnecting; in this day and age there is no excuse for this.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Shadowman
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