Ultimaker S5 | impressions & opinions

[uncle_bob 21]

Hi

 

Can I rig something to hold bigger spools? Sure. The main point of buying a UM is that it *can* all work together. The RFID works with their spools and integrates back into Cura. I don't *have* to use that feature, but I can use it. If they come out with a yet larger printer that pretty much requires you to rig the filament feed with something from somewhere they break that operating model. You buy the printer from them and then go off and buy this and that to actually be able to *use* the printer. Yes, I'm in the middle of a project on the UM3 ext that is running 800 to 1200 g for most of the parts. That's most of a week per part doing the printing. It's been going since January and likely will complete by June. This is not just speculation. Spool capacity *is* an issue as they ramp up the size of these printers. 

 

Bob

[LePaul 321]

I'm always puzzled by a few posters who, over the years, scoff at the need for a larger builder volume.  'Break it down into smaller pieces' and other comments are just silly.  The competition has offered large volume printers for a year or two now.  From gCreate gmax models, the Raise3D N2 Plus to the incredibly inexpensive CR-10S/S4/S5 models.  

 

The goal for a larger print volume for a new Ultimaker should be it's ability to align  quality components, better engineering and clever ingenuity to offer customers that flexibility. 

 

I really think Ultimaker is late to the party on this endeavor but will be extremely interested to see what they offer.  

 

If you don't print large objects, then fine.  But a lot of people do, so dismissing their needs strikes me as aloof.

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by LePaul

[kmanstudios 1,120]

16 minutes ago, uncle_bob said:

Hi

 

Can I rig something to hold bigger spools? Sure. The main point of buying a UM is that it *can* all work together. The RFID works with their spools and integrates back into Cura. I don't *have* to use that feature, but I can use it. If they come out with a yet larger printer that pretty much requires you to rig the filament feed with something from somewhere they break that operating model. You buy the printer from them and then go off and buy this and that to actually be able to *use* the printer. Yes, I'm in the middle of a project on the UM3 ext that is running 800 to 1200 g for most of the parts. That's most of a week per part doing the printing. It's been going since January and likely will complete by June. This is not just speculation. Spool capacity *is* an issue as they ramp up the size of these printers. 

 

Bob

ok, I get it. It is just not a full, complete, wave the wand solution for you.

 

Here is what I  want from a printer:

1. Flexibility, let me mod it and not shackle me. If they would not allow you to feed from different sources, then yeah, I could get behind that. But, that is not the issue
2. Well built, solid and not flimsy. Got two UM3Es and they have been beaten to heck and back running full time with minimal upkeep...just yer basic maintenance.
3. Size is nice as I am running into size issues.
4. With that increase in size, reliability of printing and ability to make it work with minimal work on my end
5. With that size increase, also an increase in stability so it is not just a change in case and buildplate size.

Say what you want, but at this point, it seems you are more disappointed it is not everything you want and that is fine for you. But you make it sound like the spool thing is a deal breaker and not even savable by being flexible to suit many needs and therefore modable to meet a variety of needs. To tight, restrict the market, too loose, lose those who want a get up and go without much to do printer.

 

What I find funny is that UM gets dinged for not being 'maker oriented enough' for those who like to tinker, mod and customize, and those who expect everything done exactly they way they want without having to do anything but slice. And, they complain about the free software too!

 

Cannot please everybody. And, apparently does not please you.

[uncle_bob 21]

24 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

ok, I get it. It is just not a full, complete, wave the wand solution for you.

 

Here is what I  want from a printer:

1. Flexibility, let me mod it and not shackle me. If they would not allow you to feed from different sources, then yeah, I could get behind that. But, that is not the issue
2. Well built, solid and not flimsy. Got two UM3Es and they have been beaten to heck and back running full time with minimal upkeep...just yer basic maintenance.
3. Size is nice as I am running into size issues.
4. With that increase in size, reliability of printing and ability to make it work with minimal work on my end
5. With that size increase, also an increase in stability so it is not just a change in case and buildplate size.

Say what you want, but at this point, it seems you are more disappointed it is not everything you want and that is fine for you. But you make it sound like the spool thing is a deal breaker and not even savable by being flexible to suit many needs and therefore modable to meet a variety of needs. To tight, restrict the market, too loose, lose those who want a get up and go without much to do printer.

 

What I find funny is that UM gets dinged for not being 'maker oriented enough' for those who like to tinker, mod and customize, and those who expect everything done exactly they way they want without having to do anything but slice. And, they complain about the free software too!

 

Cannot please everybody. And, apparently does not please you.

 

Hi

 

I do believe you have hopped into the middle of this without reading the earlier posts. My point is not at all that this is a junk design. What I am proposing is that a pretty simple fix be implemented in Cura to work around the issue. Go back and check out the earlier posts ......

 

Bob

[kmanstudios 1,120]

How is cura a fix for spool design?

[uncle_bob 21]

1 minute ago, kmanstudios said:

How is cura a fix for spool design?

 

Hi

 

Check the earlier posts for all the details. Simple answer - put in a pause calculated based on filament used. Allow the user to put in another spool before the whole print crashes. Simple bit of code and it all "just works".

 

Bob

[kmanstudios 1,120]

That is not a cura issue. That requires a filament sensor and it is far more than just running out of filament. If the filament starts grinding and not progressing would be noticed by a filament sensor and be able to stop the print properly and solve all issues.

 

I coulda used that earlier last week when my PLA grinded down to no advancement and it kept printing and wasted a half inch of PVA before I caught it. The filament stopping would be detected and solve the issue and your issues as well.

 

So, again, not a Cura issue. It is firmware and mechanical.

[uncle_bob 21]

Hi

 

• Based on the filament sensors I have on other printers ..... not so much. None of the ones I have will properly detect jammed filament. They *might* get that working in some future firmware update. Right now in the real world ... simply does not work. Even the "out of filament" detectors are a bit unreliable. Depending on something like that as part of every big print .. not a good idea. Having it as a backup "just in case", yes it is a good thing. Having it false detect a lot .... not good at all. Having a switch that wears down and blocks the filament on retraction .... also a really bad way to go. 

All of this filament sensor stuff is also predicated on being able to properly do an orderly shutdown. If I'm printing the outer layers - shutdown is not a good thing. Even on inner layers shutting down and coming back up *properly* is something that all of these printers struggle with. Put the shutdown / restart in the gcode from Cura. Don't have the poor little MCU running the firmware try to work it out on the fly. Cura knows a *lot* more about how to do it right on any given print.

 

A planned shutdown with a "time to shutdown" also would be a nice thing. That way having hands available for the changeover is a bit easier ....

 

Bob

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Still not a Cura thing. And quite frankly, I'd rather fix a boo boo than a whole print. This is getting repetitious. And a bit odd when you are arguing what something has or does not have when we have no idea of the scope of the new product. Just a lot of assumptions on your end.

[uncle_bob 21]

1 hour ago, kmanstudios said:

Still not a Cura thing. And quite frankly, I'd rather fix a boo boo than a whole print. This is getting repetitious. And a bit odd when you are arguing what something has or does not have when we have no idea of the scope of the new product. Just a lot of assumptions on your end.

 

Hi

 

When the "boo boo" is a puddle of material that destroys the print .... it's not a minor issue. It's been .... errr .... almost a week since I've had yet another of those happen. 

 

Indeed it *is* a Cura thing if you want an orderly stop point. If that isn't clear, we can go around all this yet again.

 

Bob

Edited April 22, 2018 by uncle_bob

[kmanstudios 1,120]

7 minutes ago, uncle_bob said:

 

Hi

Indeed it *is* a Cura thing if you want an orderly stop point. If that isn't clear, we can go around all this yet again.

 

Bob

Nah, you have it set in your mind. So, have at it. The UM line does not take you into account and are doing nothing to address these issues. So, you win and know all. Until they do it your way, nobody will be safe in printing.

[neotko 1,417]

4 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

Nah, you have it set in your mind. So, have at it. The UM line does not take you into account and are doing nothing to address these issues. So, you win and know all. Until they do it your way, nobody will be safe in printing.

 

I don’t see why you enjoy pointing out others ‘truths’. Hes just giving his opinion about how he thinks is best.

 

On the other side, Cura Indeed should be the one to mark the safe areas to make a pause. Maybe a plug-in that adds an scape point area on each layer, so if you pause the printer waits until the perfect spot is on, minimizing the possible visible errors. 

 

Anyhow without a purge, prime, clean area, is very hard to get a perfect resume. For dual it could be the prime tower, but for single unless is done perfectly on a X spot (Cura could mark the spot for each layer optimal pause/resume) it’s hard to avoid visible issues.

 

So, imo, machine + slicer

[neotko 1,417]

On a more on topic stuff

 

 

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

If I'm not wrong I take from this discussion it might be a good idea if Cura would define per layer a spot where would be a good point for a pause. This could be realised by adding some kind of special comment at this spot. If the machine has the need to make a stop, it stops at the next of those spots. A good idea imho; something which might become useful in future.

If such a spot is e.g. on the infill one could even think about making some kind of prime purge where the filament is e.g. put into the opening of the sparse infill.

 

As for a planned stop due to the remaining length on an UM filament spool: Well that number might be not that accurate, depending on how much you cut off, purged at loading or even used it on a non-NFC equiped machine.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

11 minutes ago, neotko said:

I don’t see why you enjoy pointing out others ‘truths’. Hes just giving his opinion about how he thinks is best.

Well, for one, that is not a 'truth. That is an opinion. And I stated as such, but ol' Bobbo is the one who is trying to say it is 'The Truth'. And, now, apparently you. If it had been left at opinion and not devolved into circular reasoning and dodging issues that he could not back his way out of, this would not be what it is now.

 

14 minutes ago, neotko said:

other side, Cura Indeed should be the one to mark the safe areas to make a pause. Maybe a plug-in that adds an scape point area on each layer, so if you pause the printer waits until the perfect spot is on, minimizing the possible visible errors.

How would Cura 'know' what is the best place for that to happen?

 

15 minutes ago, neotko said:

Anyhow without a purge, prime, clean area, is very hard to get a perfect resume.

Can you not resume in an infill or inner wall, or inside and drag to the outer wall?

 

15 minutes ago, neotko said:

So, imo, machine + slicer

I could go along with that, but I am stumped how Cura would know how to find 'the perfect spot.' Does any slicer do this? If so, how well?

 

8 minutes ago, Dim3nsioneer said:

As for a planned stop due to the remaining length on an UM filament spool: Well that number might be not that accurate, depending on how much you cut off, purged at loading or even used it on a non-NFC equiped machine.

This would be a major problem, especially if changing filaments for any number of reasons  for the NFC chip (should it be readable) can only identify which type of filament, assuming you are using UM materials.

 

9 minutes ago, Dim3nsioneer said:

Cura would define per layer a spot where would be a good point for a pause

Again, what would be the criteria to make that decision? And, would that decision be global or selectable. i.e. Corner vs. large curve, etc. ?

[darkdvd 975]

12 minutes ago, neotko said:

On a more on topic stuff

 

 

 

A big thanks to Neotko to share his tweets that I can no longer read because it blocked me.

[uncle_bob 21]

35 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

Well, for one, that is not a 'truth. That is an opinion. And I stated as such, but ol' Bobbo is the one who is trying to say it is 'The Truth'. And, now, apparently you. If it had been left at opinion and not devolved into circular reasoning and dodging issues that he could not back his way out of, this would not be what it is now.

 

How would Cura 'know' what is the best place for that to happen?

 

Can you not resume in an infill or inner wall, or inside and drag to the outer wall?

 

I could go along with that, but I am stumped how Cura would know how to find 'the perfect spot.' Does any slicer do this? If so, how well?

 

This would be a major problem, especially if changing filaments for any number of reasons  for the NFC chip (should it be readable) can only identify which type of filament, assuming you are using UM materials.

 

Again, what would be the criteria to make that decision? And, would that decision be global or selectable. i.e. Corner vs. large curve, etc. ?

 

HI

 

....... errrr .... not quite. You have spent a *lot* of time twisting and turning this to meet your needs. Apparently you have a very real need to thump on things. If so, that's a wonderful hobby, go to it. Re-read the posts and see how this has evolved. It was *never* presented as a "truth". It simply was presented as something that could easily be looked at. I'm sure you will have even more fun twisting and turning things .... go for it.

 

Bob

[otaskan 0]

On 4/17/2018 at 3:31 PM, SandervG said:

 

Rumors, thoughts and comments are welcome!  

Ultimaker I'm realy love you too much! I want to buy a new one Ultimaker if its as soon as possible but I couldn't afford it yet...

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies! Happy to see so many responses and excitement to the news. We'll know more soon enough!!

 

@kmanstudios and @uncle_bob, I haven't read everything into much detail, but it seems to be clear you are either on a different level or just have different opinions. Both are totally fine. Let's move on and not go about it endlessly.  Have a great day everyone!

[otaskan 0]

1 hour ago, SandervG said:

Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies! Happy to see so many responses and excitement to the news. We'll know more soon enough!!

 

@kmanstudios and @uncle_bob, I haven't read everything into much detail, but it seems to be clear you are either on a different level or just have different opinions. Both are totally fine. Let's move on and not go about it endlessly.  Have a great day everyone!

Hi Sanderv I need a job at Ultimaker. I'm loving with Ultimaker Printers. Please help me. I'm from Turkey. Thank you very much.

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

8 hours ago, otaskan said:

Hi Sanderv I need a job at Ultimaker. I'm loving with Ultimaker Printers. Please help me. I'm from Turkey. Thank you very much.

 

https://ultimaker.com/en/careers/all-jobs

[korneel 176]

and it's live..https://ultimaker.com/en/products/ultimaker-s5 

 

[cjs 34]

Looking nice! 

How did you come up with the name? 

Can you already share a bit more information regarding the changes/improvements? 

[nallath 1,120]

 

57 minutes ago, cjs said:

Looking nice! 

How did you come up with the name? 

Can you already share a bit more information regarding the changes/improvements? 

Don't pin me down on it, but the 4 was skipped due to bad associations with the number 4 in China / Japan. The S stands for studio.

[Daid 306]

38 minutes ago, cjs said:

Looking nice! 

How did you come up with the name? 

Can you already share a bit more information regarding the changes/improvements? 

It's bigger. 330x245x315mm to be exact. And that volume can be used by BOTH nozzles. No more less volume for dual extrusion prints.

 

It has a flow sensor, that works for jam detection as well. Yes, we spend a shitload of time developing this one. It has been in development even during the UM3 development. As we wanted in the UM3 initially, but we cut it from the release then when it didn't work properly. Solves the 750g spool problem. I think we've gone trough 2 different sensor chip designs, and a whole bunch of mechanical designs before that part was perfect. Then the software when trough a few large iterations as well. This was quite a ride.

 

Touch screen, better late then never.

 

Doors, just improves print quality, especially with high temp materials. But we all already knew this.

 

Expansion port. Next to the spool holder NFC connector there is a mystery connector. Future extension devices can be connected to this. Cannot tell you what we have in the works for this. But hey, the connector is there.

 

Aluminium buildplate. Not all materials where sticking very well to the glass. A proper aluminium build plate works better for some materials. (Available later)

 

Double the theoretical resolution on X/Y by changing the belt pulley sizes. With the heavier construction, this also gave us the plus of having more torque.

 

Internal power supply. No longer the separate power brick.

 

New improved bed, which is stiffer then anything we did before.

 

Grid based leveling. With the large build volume, our 3 point leveling no longer worked properly, as glass and aluminium plates are always a bit warped. (I think this will be backported to the UM3 as well, but don't hold me on that one)

 

It uses the same PrintCores as the UM3, why change something that works great?

 

One thing got removed compared to the UM3, the frame lights are now only white, no longer RGBW. (The RGBW strips are quite expensive in the UM3, and never really used, which I personally think is a shame, but hey, you win some, you lose some)