kmanstudios 1,120
Why are the emojis so teeny?
Hoi Sander,
Have you also tested if, and how, this material does change after a long time, after a year or so?
Regular PLA (Ultimaker) and PLA/PHA (colorFabb) do get harder and more brittle after a year. For example snap-fit mechanisms that work well when freshly printed in PLA, get too hard and break after a year if you try to lock/unlock them. The PLA does not crumble, it just gets too stiff to flex.
Also these snake clamps (see photo below) get so hard that they are likely to break when I remove them now. While in the beginning they easily snapped around the bowden tube and cables (this is colorFabb PLA/PHA). Also the tube-couplings tend to break when getting older. I believe this effect is due to a change in crystal structure (=getting more crystaline over time), and hydrolysis (=break-down of molecules due to water absorption), but I am not a chemist.
How does the new tough PLA behave in this regard?
Hi @geert_2 , interesting question! Although this was not particularly researched in any of the tests, there is a suspicion from our material engineers that due to the additives in Tough PLA the crystallization over time will be less and therefore won't change that much over time.
Most plastic materials become more brittle with time due to UV radiation. A pretty easy trick is to apply a layer of UV protecting lack. You also might keep in mind that Tough PLA does not have an increased temperature resistance.
I have learned over the years that when fresh PLA breaks very fast, over time (many months ... years later) it becomes even more brittle. So it was with all my original Ultimaker materials. Nevertheless, I was able to process the aged materials almost without problems. Partly, this material was left open in a room climate, the humidity was almost always between 60 and 65 percent.
However, I have PLA and HT-PLA from other vendors that can lie open next to the machine for months without any noticeable change in material properties. The objects printed with these materials also remain constant in their properties over the long term.
And I do not want to say that it is a question of price. Rather, the positive insight comes from the purchase of PLA from different suppliers / manufacturers. I never guessed that PLA is so different in so many ways.
By the way: There is a very simple non-scientific bending test, which gives at least with new filament something forward-looking information about an expected material quality. Of course, at least one material sample must be available for this. So hurry to the nearest printer shop and kindly ask ?
Honestly, I know very little about Tough PLA so far. My first thought: why was it named exactly like the same-named product from Makerbot?
Especially this HT-PLA mentioned by me has in the first layer exactly zero adhesion, so shit like ABS, so it helps unique and extremely effective to print the very first layer with normal PLA. But then you will be rewarded with un-seen precise objects and positive ABS properties, which almost no post-processing required. And more, because overhangs succeed much better, so that the cost of additional support material are much lower. And deformation begins only in the area near 90 degrees Celsius.
So what kind of experience can I get from Tough PLA?
Maybe a bit lower warping and better overhang quality compared to PLA? For example, when I think of PVA as a support material, I get sick on a regular basis ... It's relatively expensive and you just flush it away.
The general development should definitely go in the direction of reducing the warping, and the almost total elimination of additional trash (support material) ...
Edited by mnisOn 5/21/2018 at 12:28 AM, mnis said:Honestly, I know very little about Tough PLA so far. My first thought: why was it named exactly like the same-named product from Makerbot?
Hi @mnis , thanks for the input! I don't think it is specifically named after Makerbot, but in the industry it is an acknowledged term for PLA with these characteristics. Besides MBI, you can find many vendors who have 'Tough PLA'. I suppose, because the name makes sense, more vendors have chosen this title. In this case, it is a good thing to share the same name because you know what you are getting as a user.
There is a very clear difference between Tough PLA and HT-PLA, which probably also caused your problem with lack of adhesion; is the glass transition temperature. Tough PLA is very similar to regular PLA, while, I believe, HT-PLA is closer to ABS. Tough PLA actually adheres really, really well to the glass plate. Therefore we even recommend to add a thin layer of glue stick, for easier removal.
You should expect no/minimal warping from Tough PLA ? (as you would from regular PLA)
Hi and thanks @SanderVG
That's good news. I'll definitely give Tough PLA a chance. In general, I am very curious how it will progress in the development of biopolimers. I have recently heard that intensive research is being done to extract from the whey (... the by-product of cheese production) a compostable packaging film for the food industry. It should be ready in about two years. And then, I think, it will definitely give whey filament for FFF / FDM machines ?
"Ultimaker Tough PLA can be printed on Ultimaker S5 and the Ultimaker 3 family printers." (Source)
I guess, as it is "as easy to print as PLA", it will also print perfectly on an UM 2+ ?
1 hour ago, Tafelspitz said:"Ultimaker Tough PLA can be printed on Ultimaker S5 and the Ultimaker 3 family printers." (Source)
I guess, as it is "as easy to print as PLA", it will also print perfectly on an UM 2+ ?
All ya gotta do is look at the compatibility matrix on the product page....
https://ultimaker.com/en/resources/49799-material-compatibility
...where it says "experimental" ?
Then, experiment ?
Will do, as soon as the package arrives at my doorstep ?
Tell me about it....My pre-order will not be available until June 8....(Chomping at the bit....) But, I only have the UM3E, so not so much mystery for me.....
Well, if Tough PLA is actually as easy to print as normal PLA, then there will not be much experimenting ... But you should be careful with the first layer as it should stick even better ?
Anyway ... Unfortunately, some things can not be done with the material because it starts to deform like PLA near 60 degrees Celsius.
On the pictures: A housing for heating elements, made of PLA-HT, printed on Ultimaker 2 (with first nozzle). Only the first layer is made of ordinary PLA (printed with second nozzle) because otherwise nothing sticks well enough on the platform.
Edited by mnis4 hours ago, mnis said:Only the first layer is made of ordinary PLA (printed with second nozzle) because otherwise nothing sticks well enough on the platform.
Chalking that up into the brain attic....thanks for the tip!!
Hm, attention brainwave measurement!
I thought this would be a well-established and well-known method besides 3M BlueTape ... and maybe a mix of cement and superglue. lol
I just always use a layer of PVA slurry brushed on as my bed adhesive. I had never thought of a first layer printed otherwise, unless you count that as a raft. I do not use rafts often anymore.
So I am curious why this is "Experimental" to print on the UM2+ ....what's the limiting factors? Hot End temps?
I think there's just not much interest in dealing with the older machines and the filament suitability. If you want to use the new material, you just have to find your own way, unfortunately ...
Edit: A few written lines were removed, because written with frustration ?
Edited by mnisNot sure what to make of that response....but anyways...still curious what factors in the processing of that filament negatively affect the UM2+ :)
When something is labeled as experimental it does not necessarily mean there are negative effects to a machine, it can also be that the creation of the profile did not have main priority and it may not be optimal (yet).
Hi @SandervG ? Thanks for the reply.
I'll keep watching the web page and see if a profile has been developed. It looks like an interesting filament.
How does this PLA compare to eSun's PLA Pro/PLA +?
eSun claims theirs is 10x stronger than regular PLA and suggests printing temperatures of between 205 - 225C which implies this product can withstand slightly higher temperatures than standard PLA.
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kmanstudios 1,120
Already put in an order for 3 Spools on pre-order. I really wanna test this stuff. But, we need grey!! ARRRRgggghhhhhhh........?
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