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ErikDeBruijn

Wanted: great ideas! (YouMagine)

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youmagine-logo-25fc3411f36635fc81b2139b40e22c0e.png

Why YouMagine?

We're working very hard to create YouMagine for you. This is just the beginning. We believe YouMagine will be the "Ultimate" place to share. By "Ultimate", we don't mean that only Ultimaker users are welcome (you guys are special :) ), every fellow maker with a passion for making things is welcome! What we mean by "ultimate", is that it will be great because of your involvement and your voice. With YouMagine, we want to accellerate progress in the maker community and inspire people to become makers!

Our intention is to create a place that is about sharing, collaboration, creation (rather than just "download and print") and, finally, a place to inspire each other. But what this sharing, collaboration and creation, etc. should look like, depends on your input and ideas!

We believe YouMagine should be about You. Together, we can imagine and contribute to something special instead of us launching "yet another Thingiverse clone". Key to this is that YouMagine is made for you, and you have a say in what YouMagine will be like.

Inspire with ideas

In addition to core functionality such as sharing printable files, we're thinking of functionality such as a place for ideas (or a design challenge you thought of). When an idea or challenge is posted, people can propose solutions and possibly pitch in skills, resources and/or funding)

An open commons

Also, instead of just printable files, we'd like to enable a commons of building blocks to emerge. That commons should be in native source files and and in an open format, not STL, which is like a binary file. You can't really build on STL files. This is limiting to collaboration and more sophisticated projects!

 

Easy, online creation and editing

For this we're interested in adding a really cool online editor (more about this later). To tease you a bit: Think of OpenSCAD, but 'drag and drop', much more graphical, it works online and it's still parametric. And sharing a design is as easy as pressing 'save'. You won't just share the STL, but also the whole structure of your project, allowing someone to press "Edit a copy" of any design. If you make them a collaborator (future option, not implemented yet), they can help provide pictures, design files and improve instructions, the Bill of Materials, etc.

Other creation tools can use the YouMagine API (built already!).

Collaboration

Allowing design entries to have multiple collaborators (and one owner), would be really cool, because it might enable more sophisticated design by a team. Right now we're thinking in the direction of how Google Docs have one owner and multiple collaborators.

Anyway, if you're reading this, please provide comments. Also, please sign up at YouMagine and give things a try, and let us know what the "Ultimate" sharing resource should be like to help make the world a better place for every maker!

We'd love to learn about your ideas on:

  • [*]sharing ideas in addition to files

[*]ability for anyone to create challenges

[*]online editing and sharing of source formats

[*]design entries with multiple collaborators

[*]how to best accommodate makers

[*]what could make YouMagine the Ultimate place to share

--

On behalf of the entire The Ultimaker Team,

Erik de Bruijn

 

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I love the idea!!

Did I read that correctly, you want to create an online-editor for 3D-Designs? Like I draw my stuff in my browser? That sounds kinda strange.. And I don't think you'll just stamp a 3D designer program out of the ground that is better than say a professional program for professionals, or Sketchup for the simple user like me...

But prove me wrong, please!

I'd suggest using subversion for projects. It's free and easy to use, and it prevents stuff from getting lost or just written over by someone...

I'm trying to get a project started which I believe will fit into YouMagine very well, so I'm eager to test the stuff!

Atm I'm still building my UM and working my way into 3D-drawing / construction, so consider me a total noob in the "Maker" world, but there's no lack in ideas ;)

 

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3d online editor pretty many already. There is some request from my side, it is good idea to use instruments like sculpting and technical modeling in same program. Because what see now it is using this instruments separately. I dont know is it possible to talk about what already exist, and what is wrong with this guys by my opinion.

 

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You did read it correct, but i will allow Erik to fill (you) in on the details ;)

I am also a true supporter of YouMagine, and along with the contribution and collaboration feature i think it is important and very useful for all participants to be able to make an individual profile where they can list their skills, and show their activity based on like interest, pic of prints, models, other make's beside printing.

This could be convenient in sourcing a team to work on projects and will also showcase the most active users.

It would be wonderful to be able to easily continue on other people's ideas to make it fit on your personal needs.

Sharing and collaborating, nice words!

 

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Thanks for the feedback, Jonny, Alex and Sander!

@JonnyBischof: You're right. Rewriting Solidworks would be silly (and a lot of work).That is not the goal. It takes a lot of time to create all of the functionality, and probably won't run very well in the browser yet. Instead, I want to make use of the fact that you design with a repository of parts made by a community, meant to be incorporated into projects. Also, sharing should really be effortless as saving. In addition, if you compare it to Sketchup, SketchUp isn't based on real solids but is geared towards making models that are visually nice, but they're just a respresentation of surfaces. If there's a hole in a part of the surface, or if there's an inverted face, this will cause problems.

@Alex Marakesch: I think some online tools are more focused on sculpting and others on technical because that's easier. Combining those features is not easy, but it can be done. It's not the plan to do something that already exists, better to interface to that tool with YouMagine than to write another one. The plan is to do something that is much easier than OpenSCAD, but just as powerful.

Which online editor do you like, and for what reason? What are you interested in making?

 

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This is a very ambitious project, it's thingiverse + tinkerCAD + some kind of forum.

In my opinion nothing is going to become more popular than thingiverse for a long time (you can't beat a leader until it falls by itself), but youmagine could take the second place.

For a project/brand to exist it needs to have a proper name. youmagine makes me think of yet another you-something website that flies on the youtube/Web 2.0 trend and doesn't exist by itself.

For now I only use thingiverse to download files and one thing that could be improved (in youmagine) is that all files (not just the zip, files in the zip) should have an identifier so that after we download them we still know where they came from. Ideally, since some files will be shared on multiple sites, each 3D file (not just each 3D project) should have a world unique identifier, like goods have the same bar code no matter the store.

I prefer block modelling, like Legos, that's why I chose tinkerCAD (for now, 123D Design being more featurefull but less intuitive). If I had to improve it I would make the camera centre movable so I can look at parts anywhere even high up. I would add many more customizable shapes and I would make dimensions and positions a lot easier to edit.

Online editors have two big caveat: they don't work if the site is down of if the user's connection is down and they slow down the browser. That's why I would recommend having a local editor in addition, they all could be based on an existing cross-platform solution such as Unity 3D.

I don't know if a forum type of text exchange community would be adapted, but, what I know is that right now generalist 3D printing forums don't work, 3ders.com, 3dprinting-forums.com are desert, 3Dprinters.com closed as fast as it opened. The only one that is successful and could be the model is shapeways.com

 

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I think that's a cool idea, I had thoughts of a need for something like this during many projects. The most attractive focus for me being a place for collaboration. While thingeverse has kinda cornered the market already in terms of user friendly download and print & share, the community features are quite lacking. I recently found out entering their birdhouse contest thing that they don't even have a PM inbox... it just goes straight to e-mail, bizarre considering even these forums have a much greater capacity for PMs, Chats, galleries.

Anyways, I love the idea of it being a place for people to come together to tackle larger projects. I think it would be wonderful to open it up a little more to bring in people with skills in electronics, milling and similar related enthusiasts to greatly expand what the capacity to develop complex projects. More like a DIY hub empowered by a 3d printer base.

Here's a specific example of an experience I would like to see:

Say i wanted to build a motorized camera control slider. The ones on the market are ridiculously pricey. I would want to start a project, fill in some details of what I want to achieve as the project starter. Timelines, expertise requirements, financials (if applicable).

I would want the site to suggest a bunch of people who have signed up and filled in their profiles and have a list of their previous projects that might be relevant. In this case, I would cover the 3d designing and printing requirements, but would require someone who is skilled in servos, step motors, and control boards.

Once matched up, the team should have access to an internal (or public) development forum where design discussions can begin, sharing happens, and wonderful stuff being made.

All the while it could be kickstarter like in that there are tools that allow people who believe in the project to donate time, money, or resources. In this case, Our project may require some steel rods, step motors, and belts. maybe someone has a bunch lying around they'd like to donate the project, Or even a roll of PLA. Heck this might be a great place for companies to donate stuff so when the plans are available, they would be the first place to look for people looking to make the build.

Upon completion of a prototype, the plans can be made available either for free or a price listed upon project start.

In addition, there might be a place for a marketplace forum for people who want to buy / sell the project. Some people may want the end result, but lack a 3d printer & DIY skills. So he may put out a request to build and find a seller who is willing to make the project for a cost, and happens to be local etc.

So we would have a place that's truely global in it's talent pool, but saves cost, energy/shipping in distribution while matching up buyers and sellers in an actual free market.

_______________

Of course there would need to be a place where project ideas can be suggested and discussed, challenges etc. I have lots of ideas on those, but this post is long enough as it is :p

As for software, as a designer / 3d artist, I would not want to be restricted to an on specific piece of software, I understand the advantages of it being unified and open. But I have a workflow, already know the software I'm using, there is no good reason (from an artists perspective) to learn a new software that does the same thing that is less developed than the one I'm currently use to unless the situation really calls for it. Those who are only getting into 3D may very much like and use your software however.

I would personally take the route that turbosquid has, and have the user decide the native formats as aswell as whatever other format you can export to. And let the end user & market decide whether they have use for that format or not.

Hope this helps.

 

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Nice ideas, what for me is important - have simple but enough good tools to edit models, I want to understand dimensions, but also want to make shapes more soft. Like instruments in tinker cad, it is really easy. But with last update 123dapp design online, come really nice feature. As for me what instrument missing in online is make more soft shapes, this instrument is available in leopoly, but there is missing sizes, and all other accurate instruments.

You cant do something due to lack of time, or knowledge etc. So there is probably community of consumers, and other guys who can adopt 3d model for printing, or create model. And there is guys who have 3d printer and can print something. Idea that you post what you need, say conditions, and there is guys who see your request and propose to you some service. Maybe some guy will do 3d modeling, other guy closer to you will do 3d print. So it is like some kind of freelance site. There is some place for collaboration, cooperation or just service.

 

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The 3D Design tool has the working name "UltiShaper".

@CornGolem

Indeed it's ambitious. It's aimed more at those who aren't already fluent in a CAD package or who work with OpenSCAD, but don't like its usability (e.g. you don't know what primitive in the preview belongs to the line of code where your cursor is). Seeing what you've selected is easy in the UltiShaper.

The name YouMagine indeed winks at YouTube, but the references to the words "You" and "Imagine" are the ones that I really love. I think a 2.0 name is appropriate for what is essentially a website that isn't just about consumption of content, but more about reading and writing, consumption and creation.

The design tool could have an offline variant that you could install into Chrome as a Chrome App, for example, and that would be able to sync when you're online again. Shouldn't be really hard, since the CSG calculations are done on the client side.

@Valcrow:

Thanks for your elaborate reply on collaboration! They're good inspiration and it's good to hear that I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.

About the native formats: this remains possible, you can always upload those as well. Even though not everyone will have easy access to the same software, there's a big user base for those existing CAD packages, so we don't want to restrict those formats.

@Alex: The idea of a freelance site is cool, but I think this could be part of it. Actually, 3DHubs in the Netherlands is a really cool company that will help you get something 3D printed close to you, even if you don't own a 3D printer! Great example of local production.

 

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One of the problems I have with Thingiverse is that I can't find designs that I have seen before and I know are there. More powerful searching would help.

Maybe make the designs/models/'things' tagable by the original poster or by other registered users to aid later searching. It would seem that a moderate number and finite list of tags would be most effective. If something is obscure enough to not specifically fit in a tag category, the name/description should suffice.

Matt

 

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You are indeed building another Autodesk Fusion 360. It has a very advanced online editor (that is maybe too complex). And it is comercial and not focused on public sharing.

Anyway building another, better Thingiverse isn't a bad idea. Remember myspace? It used to be the leader and we all know what became of its competitor Facebook...

The thing is - why should any Thingiverse user start using YouMagine right now? Most "makers" (people with 3d printers) are fine with downloading and printing stuff. So why should they switch when Thingiverse is chokefull with models, has collections and some customizable models?

I think you need to add something of great value. Those base building blocks are a start but it is not enough (imho).

If someone is a true maker he will already have all tools in place (OpenSCAD, tinkerCAD, netfabb etc.). Also a web based editor isn't really an USP. How many times did any of you had to create/edit a model on the run?

I'd say create a truly great all-in-one solution. 3d printing is still new - you can see it when you look at the scattered/complicated workflow. I need at least three tools to start print something. Cura would be a great choice to be enriched with an editor. I know that Netfabb does this - tries to cover the complete workflow. And now that they have their Fabbster printer it is clear that they also want to grab market share.

And then there is the problem with ownership. Makerbot/Thingiverse vere sold. Who knows what will happen to them. So what happens when Ultimaker/YouMagine will have the same fate? I hope it won't be the case thougt. However there is a trust component here that needs to be taken into account.

Sorry for the pessimistic/random thoughts. I am on holiday and hogging the hotel wifi. I'd love to controbute to the discussion in a more ordered fasion when I get home :)

Stefan

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It is not uncommon that i hear people say that they are removing their files from thingiverse now thingiverse is slowly starting to 'claim' models that makers have uploaded. When you listen carefully there is a call from makers for a new place to host their creativity. We are offering a place to bring everyone together, all (Ulti-)makers.

Thingiverse does host a lot of models, but too many imo. And too many insignificant models as well, like 1000 phone covers. What i consider something of great value over thingiverse, is the ability to share, work together and get in touch with other like-minded makers. More like the social aspect you know..

Beside the fact of hosting models, which is only a part of youmagine, another big element is that we intend to bring makers together. A place to start ideas and collaborations. People can start making things again, some have always done this, the active makers. But a lot of people are not there yet, and i can see them using the UltiShaper.

Even if it was (only) used as a gateway modelling tool.

And something Ultishaper offers that a lot of tools don't (if i am not mistaken), is the ability to take someones design, and change it in a way that it is applicable to your needs. You don't use the STL to work on, but the source.

Ideal for editing and personalisation :)

 

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As for me I'm still looking for good 3d editor, often use tinkercad, but there is limitations so it is really hard to achieve some complicated results. As for me there is missing functionality to edit separately points, edges, faces, like in 123d design, but 123d design they did it not so good, as expectation for simple use. When you change one point or edge, another point or edge you can edit perpendicular to your edges, as for me editing should be perpendicular to bottom. As result I cant make geometry, which I want. And another result is frustration for me, and must do break to try again. Probably I dont know that 123d design have such functionality, but it is definitely not so obvious.

 

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Maybe you could integrate some kind of "design rules" into the editor. Like that you can enter your nozzle size and then get error messages for every part of the model that would require a smaller nozzle diameter. Maybe you can also make a function that displays your model in a "printed preview" like with visible layering so that you can see how the model will look like with 0.2mm layer height compared to 0.06mm...

Also, I'd like a function that detects overhangs and creates supports automatically. Stuff that's dedicated to 3D-printing... I think if you can integrate functions like that, then users have a good reason to create or at least finish their models with your editor.

Comparably, Creo (Wildfire or whatever 1000 names they gave their product) has functions dedicated to make (bent) sheet metal parts. Instead of calculating every bent edge and keeping the flat starting point in mind, you just tell the program to bend the sheet metal here and there, and the editor does the rest. That makes the program extremely helpful with that stuff, and only an idiot would create sheet metal parts with a program that doesn't have this function set.

 

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'Also, I'd like a function that detects overhangs and creates supports automatically. Stuff that's dedicated to 3D-printing... I think if you can integrate functions like that, then users have a good reason to create or at least finish their models with your editor.' good idea!!

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@JonnyBischof: I can imagine that it's confusing to you. That's because it's confusing :)

 

The intention was to call that "credit label". The download PDF is in there because we wanted to make it easy to credit designers by printing a label. The label is made with a PDF generator, but none of this really matters to the average user. The intention was to give this a different place in the UI, but this hasn't happened, but we also didn't want to leave out this feature. We need a little icon, perhaps when you hover over the license, to make it clear that it's about honoring the wishes of the creator concerning her/his intellectual property.

 

Also: David made a cool image script to show your design, I put it on the UM servers and it will remain available at that address. You can use the IMG url just by looking at my example below. It can be used on websites or here, as a signature.

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...Try "remove formatting" ...

 

That did it, thanks!

Man, now I have to get to work with my designs :)

/edit: If I click on the YM logo in my sig, it opens YM in the same window. Can this be changed to open a new window (html code should allow that definition)? I'd prefer it that way so you don't lose the UM forum when browsing...

 

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New forum functionality!

You can now also display a YouMagine design by adding this bbCode:

 


[YouMagineDesign=94]

Result:

[YouMagineDesign=69]

The ID of a design can be found under the 'embed' tab on a design page at YouMagine. You can also use the name of the design from the URL.

e.g. for the iphone-wall-mount ( url ), you can use this bbcode:

 


[YouMagineDesign=iphone-wall-mount]

Result:

[YouMagineDesign=iphone-wall-mount]

 

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