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Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

Hmn pic 2 looks like the entire print not mid print. Do you mean sometimes the problem does not start until mid print and sometimes it is the whole print?

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns
15 minutes ago, Andy6583 said:

 

@P3D: I did check these things first. As I said, the problem  occurs in mid print (see above).

 

 

 

Minor thing, but this is not actually mid-print, as the first layer(s) are handled differently (more flow, higher temperature). The erratic printhead movement, however, seems to indicate there is indeed something else going on. Would you mind just posting the Cura project file so others can have a look at it?

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

@yellowshark: yes exactly that. the one with the brim started all right, the other one went wrong from the start.

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Posted (edited) · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

@P3D: the first stage of that print is 5mm ! not just the first layer...

I will post the files tonight. the STL-files was already posted in my reply to Smithy...

Edited by Andy6583

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns
24 minutes ago, Andy6583 said:

@P3D: the first stage of that print is 5mm ! not just the first layer...

I will post the files tonight. the STL-files was already posted in my reply to Smithy...

 

Unfortunately, the parameters set in Cura do not come with the STL - a Cura project file is much more efficient than posting a STL+Screenshots. And as @yellowshark already said, the second of your examples looks very much like the problems started almost immediately. The first one doesn't look much better., but the brim somehow seems to have altered something for the first layers.

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Posted (edited) · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

both were printed in the same way. I just removed the brim from the one that was (...) from the start.

The one shown with the brim was ok for the first 5mm. the other garbled from the start...

Had other items printed with both partially ok and (...) from start...

 

Does it matter for Cura that the items consist of a couple of basic shapes one on top of the other ? Can´t imagine that it does...

 

I did not use Project files until now. Just loaded the STL, generated gcode with previous settings and done. But I will save one to upload here.

Edited by Andy6583

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

Thanks for the information. As long as the STL is OK (as smithy verified), the shape shouldn't matter.

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Posted (edited) · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

OK, nothing like 30 minutes reflection to clear the mind. What we have here is something no-one understands, too many contradictions. If your test this evening does not work I suggest you do the following, going back to square one.

 

  1.         Load a different reel of filament; preferably something fairly new so that the filament wind will be loose, rather than a reel that has been significantly used where the inner wind will normally be tighter and can stick.
  2.         Load Cura and yet again check your filament setting and your printer settings. These are the only settings where Cura interacts with the outside world.
  3.         We know the stl file for the circular model is fine; @Smithyhas tested it. Load that stl file and regenerate the gcode.
  4.          Print the gcode
  5.           Assuming it fails  then load the stl file for the rectangular model and generate a new gcode file
  6.            Print the gcode

If If both work then great.

If If both fail then you have a hardware or filament problem

LLol if one fails and one works we are back to where we are now, not having a clue as to what is happening

Edited by yellowshark

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns
1 hour ago, Andy6583 said:

(Of course may be not close enough, but why should that be a problem all of a sudden or half way through a print ?)

Because it is tech and eventually tech is going to be out to get us? This is just the shot across the bow? 😁

 

In all seriousness though, if this just started recently, I would go with hardware VS. Software.

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

Could it be that the nozzle cooling fan is not working correctly? This might at least explain underextrusion after a short while.

 

Also a too high required material flow - more than the printer can deliver - would explain that. The first layers are usually printed at lower speeds and sometimes higher temps. Nozzle jams, feeder jams, spool jams, too much friction somewhere, too low temp, too high speed, too thick layers, too thick layer lines,...

 

But it wouldn't of course explain erratic nozzle-movements. If the file-code would be garbled, it seems most unlikely that the general shape would still be correct. I think. And if only the infill-generator would mess-up, then the walls should still print fine.

 

So I can't set aside the idea it has to do with the 1.75mm vs. 2.85mm filament: or an incorrect setting, or a rare bug triggered, or a "stuck value"?

 

What happens if you *manually* feed material through the nozzle while hot, thus bypassing the whole feeder traject (if possible on your printer)? Good, easy flow or not?

 

I also think designing and printing a small test cube (e.g.: 10mm x 10mm x 10mm, 100% filled) might help sorting things out. First print at the default or at very safe settings (e.g.: 210°C and 30mm/s for PLA). With brim. Then print at your current settings.

 

Also, make a close-up film if you can, so we can see the nozzle movements and extrusion. Due to uneven extrusion, or uneven deposited material, could it look like the nozzle is moving erratically without actually doing so? Just guessing... But since we don't know, we need to make educated guesses.

 

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

Hi,

I tried again tonight but was unsuccessful.

The Settings I used (see file) are the defaults with just some modification regarding a lower speed and thicker wallsides.

I now seem to have some additional adhesion Problems, since the skirt again was pushed aside leading to the usual mess... Though it still works with the old gcode-files 

I had the same effects with the old Cura 15-something at first until I found a small parameter that defined the first layer to be virtually printed a bit "below" the plate... I don´t remember the name but I remember the help said something about enhancing the pressure of the filament onto the plate... I could not find that Parameter in 3.2.1... an idea anybody ?

Btw: I already recalibrated the plate to 0.2mm...

 

Unfortunately I ran out of PLA now. New reels will arrive tomorrow so I have to stop for today...

 

I hate it when I just want to set my machine to do some work, maybe watch it doing it over a nice beer and end up with "huge" problems...

Really folks, thank you very (very) much for the help you are giving to a newbie such as myself !!!

 

I will try again with tomorrows PLA delivery ;-).

Update asap...

 

All the best, Andreas

 

Skipjack 1Hauptschott.curaproject.3mf.curaproject.3mf

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Posted (edited) · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

p.s.

I just wanted to show you what the stuff I need to print is for... the picture shows the WTC for the RC conversion of a 1:72 scale model of a Skipjack submarine by Revell. All red parts were designed in TinkerCad an then printed using Cura 15.x and my Malyan m150 I3.

The part I currently try to print is a replacement for the left bulkhead, currently made of transparent Acryl (which is horrible to work with).

I made some prototypes of the new bulkhead before the trouble started and found these to fit in perfectly watertight with just minor corrections.

The trouble actually started when I addes some holes to the model to allow for bearings to go through to the outside... *sigh*

-sorry- just wanted to tell what the actual print is for...   I wanted to build it cheap and quick and good... and "fast" ;-)

 

20181126_223651.jpg

Edited by Andy6583

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

I can just say again, use ONLY the default settings, nothing else for the moment. There is also no need to adjust some settings to get a better adhesion or to compensate your bed leveling. It seems that you bed is not leveled correctly, try it again on different points with a sheet of paper to get a well leveled bed. And also clean your bed with alcohol,

 

Your first layer should stick very well on your heated bed when leveled correctly. For me it sounds that your nozzle is too far away from the bed and therefore the first layer gets off. I don't know your printer, but if you have a removeable build plate, then you should normally level your bed every time you remove the plate, otherwise you could get problems.

 

I guess your printer is not calibrated very well and you have compensated this with some software settings in the past which you cannot remember currently. That's the reason why your old gcode files are ok and the new ones not. So we should first find out, what's the problem with your hardware and go step by step to the next issue. 

 

So your first todo for tomorrow is to level your bed and then make a test print with ONLY the DEFAULT settings, without adjusting here and there. If your brim and first layer still not stick to the bed, level the bed again, bring it closer to the nozzle and print it again.

 

And "Prost" if you currently sitting with a bottle of beer near your printer 🙂 

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

I certainly will get seriously incapacitated by the stuff if my printing efforts go on like that...

@Smithy: Believe me I did the calibration very thoroughly and ist is a sure 0.2mm distance between nozzle and plate any place on the plate.

Once again, no problems doing small stuff from the "good old days". I printed 2 bolts, 4mm shaft/5mm head in one go with the very last of my filament and they turned out perfect until print stopped due to lack of material. No Problem with the brim whatsoever...

 

But to be honest, I ask myself if maybe the problem lies with me somehow. As I understand the things you all told me, all should be ok and working out nice.

The initial problem turned up one second to the other, having printed one item all right, modified the model and printed as shown... (old Cura).... Since I definetly did not change any printing parameters just then, I checked the web for any Errors like that any came upon the problem of underextrusion that looked pretty much the same.

So I checked my printer for that but found no hint that this was the case. even more, since the other items I had in  the "old" gcode (same parameters, same filament) were printed ok...

Then I thought that maybe TinkerCad (being just an online-tool) had an update of some kind affecting the STL-export so Cura might have some trouble with that...  Once again looked for something on the web and found an article about bad STL-files that caused Cura to show errors in the model (X-ray view) and not generate correct code to print. I checked the X-ray view and found no errors.

 

So I updated Cura to 3.2.1 hoping the problem might be due to some weird mismatch between STL-Export and old Cura. It turned out it was not. So I came here... Smithy took it on him to check my STL-file, even printed the thing and thus showed that the model was OK. (Many thanks for that again !!!)

 

Now it goes really funny... Printing older items with what I call "old" gcode works out just fine. items with newly generated gcode mostly won´t stick to the plate (as I said, a thing I had with the old cura as well until... and yes, the plate is calibrated and I cleaned it before printing using just water on a heated plate !) and the one that did showed the same problem as before.

 

Did I go wrong anywhere or do I have some wrong ideas ??? If so, please tell me.  

 

The adhesion problem can be solved, I am sure, but what still strikes me about the whole thing is the erratic movements of the extruder when the problem occurs... It does not follow the infillpatterns no matter what, be it lines, crosses, zigzag...

 

I will -of course- check with a completely defaulted Prusa I3 parameter set as soon as I have new filament to work with...

I just did a testcube in TinkerCad, exported it to STL. Added a new default Prusa I3 to my Cura, imported the STL and generated the gcode. I added STL, Cura project file and gcode just in case anybody likes to have a look...

I will print that this afternoon and come back with the results...

 

All the best.

Testcube.curaproject.3mf.curaproject.3mf.curaproject.3mf

Testcube.gcode

Testcube.stl

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns
18 minutes ago, Andy6583 said:

@Smithy: Believe me I did the calibration very thoroughly and ist is a sure 0.2mm distance between nozzle and plate any place on the plate.

 

A sheet of paper has less than 0.2mm and I still think that your nozzle is too far away from the bed. This is probably the root cause for your adhesion issue. Additionally cleaning with alcohol help to get off some grease too, not sure if water is enough. 

 

You should now go step by step, first solve the adhesion problem, then we can check the rest.

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

If not yet done, maybe you could open the old good and new bad gcode files and compare them line per line? If possible for the same object?

 

If old gcode files of the same model print well, but new don't, then the underextrusion has to be a slicer or slicer-settings issue, and not an STL and not printer-hardware problem.

 

This apart from the bed-leveling, which is something separate. In my UM2-printers I set it a bit closer than the required 0.1mm, for optimal results. And I adjust on the fly while printing the skirt around the object, if necessary. But this could be very different in other printer brands (I don't know yours).

 

Probably you have checked and double checked it, but could it be that the printer-definition in Cura has changed? So it thinks it is printing to another model, and it is using wrong defaults?

 

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

after having solved the adhesion issue (one of the two heating pads was defective. replaced it...all good.)

I just started the print of my testcube so far it seems to work ok. If that works out fine, I will print one with 100% infill.

And if that works out fine, I will try my bulkhead...

 

As for the gcode-files, I will check that if I find a couple of minutes. But I already realized one thing: The files with the Problem are almost double in size to those that work out allright. So there is an issue with the gcode I guess. 

 

I will keep you posted...

 

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns
7 minutes ago, Andy6583 said:

after having solved the adhesion issue (one of the two heating pads was defective. replaced it...all good.)

These are good news, one issue solved! 

 

Slice your files again, with the same settings you have used for the cube, except the 100% infill (or use it if you want it solid)

 

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

20181127_183934.thumb.jpg.62c9ed7006e651ba975cc66456313685.jpg

 

I think I rather stick to continue testing with the cube. the print again is quite garbled in places the side with the x and the top are worst.

Eventhough it was with default settings I don´t think it should turn out that bad...

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

I tried a similar model than the one before... Looks just like before.... I am very sure it is NOT a problem with feeding filament or any form of underextrusion. Something is just wrong with what I am doing... This was printed with the defaults I used for the cube. But whereas the cube´s layers are at least complete and the nozzle followed the infill pattern, the pattern on this one again is erratic as was the nozzle movement.

I have quite ruled out hardware... the "older" gcodes still print ok. what else could it be ???

I don´t get it... what could have changed to go from "all right" tho this from one print to the next ??? and going back when using older gcode ???

btw, I checked in the gcode... at least the headers and general settings seem the same....

 

20181129_182652.thumb.jpg.3904c52c0e9bda6b4b0edf4be9b54d12.jpg20181129_182618.thumb.jpg.bebc525cef8845cd3cbbd063e8a57acd.jpg

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

I tend to stick with the wrong filament diameter, or wrong nozzle diameter settings somewhere. Or wrong flow percentage. Or something else along this line, which would affect the flowrate and cause this amount of underextrusion. It could be other settings that via-via affect flow too. Maybe hidden settings somewhere? So I would suggest you keep searching in that direction.

 

If you compare your pattern to the one in my flow-rate tests, you will see that it is about 30...50% flow (which would *exactly* match a 1.75 vs 2.85mm mismatch. Keep the scale in mind: the big block on the left is 10mm wide, nozzle size is 0.4mm, in my tests. See here:

https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/25522-photos-of-under-and-overextrusion-patterns/

 

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Posted · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

The hint with the filament diameter was given several posts before in this thread, but we never got a feedback if you have checked it or not. So please do it now.

 

And someone also mentioned that maybe the printer definition is different between your sliced files before and now. So have you also checked these settings?

 

I don't think that you have some mysteriously settings if you really print with a Cura default profile, so this should work out of the box.

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Posted (edited) · Help needed on layers printed with random patterns

The filament is 1.75...as is set in Cura. that is for definite. (...)

And if it was the wrong diameter, the old models would not print ok either.

Something in my system has changed. What I do not know at all.

And obviously, since the print is ok @Smithy, iit must be in the transition from model to gcode on my computer....

If it is a mismatch of filament it does not show in the parameters and the false value has never been set by me...

I guess I will clean my computer off Cura and reinstall the old version that came with my printer (15.0.4... I checked)...

I hope the will help...

Edited by Andy6583

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