Unable to print with non NFC spools

[V3DPrinting 11]

Hi,

 

I have broken the piggy bank for a brand new S5. I'm a 3D Printing Service provider.

 

I've done the welcome procedure and updated the firmware to the latest one (5.1.7)

 

Unfortunately, after setting it up, I am not able to print with it, as if the material is not detected by NFC, the job does not start :

If I set up my print in Cura using for example Ultimaker Tough PLA Black and not using the NFC to detect the spool when loading the material (I use dry boxes), the material is then PLA Unknown in the S5.

I send the job to Cura Connect, it is assigned to my S5, but I need to override the configuration and confirm. Then the job starts but quits within a minute and goes to the history.

 

If I load the filament using the NFC, the job will start at once.

 

I have two Ultimaker 3, and the same scenario works fine. I print mostly with non Ultimaker spools on them since a year now without any flaw.

 

Is it a bug in the firmware? In that case, I've bought a 6K professional printer that standing in my office not working.

Is it a new feature of the Ultimaker ecosystem? In that case, the printer will return directly to the distributor and I'll go for a Stacker S4 even if it's 1.75 filament unlike all my other printers.

 

Quick feedback welcome.

[V3DPrinting 11]

I forgot : I use Cura 3.6

[Smithy 1,144]

I have no problems at all to load other brands than UM spools. When loading a spool, I have to select the material, for example, PLA and then I have to select Generic PLA in Cura - works fine. If I choose in Cura UM PLA then I get the message that I can override. I never tried to override it, because I always select the correct material in Cura. So I don't know if it is a bug when you override and the print aborts. But the normal way works fine.

 

The important step is, that you have to choose the correct material in Cura. So choose the Generic ToughPLA and not the UM ToughPLA in Cura and it will work. The UM profiles and the generic profiles have the same settings, so don't worry about that. 

[V3DPrinting 11]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I am using Cura + Cura Connect + UM3E for a year now, without any issues with other filaments than Ultimaker, doing the same procedure as the one you've described.

I print nearly 24/7 with the UM3E.

 

But with the S5 unboxed from this morning, it is not working.

[V3DPrinting 11]

Just to clarify.

 

If you set up a job in Cura using for example a ColorFabb PLA derived from the Generic PLA material and load a PLA in the UM3 without using the NFC, then the material in the UM3 will be displayed as Unknown PLA.

 

Sending the job to Cura Connect, assigned to the UM3, it will go to the right queue.

A warning will be raised asking if you want to modify the configuration in order to use the ColorFabb PLA instead of the Unknown PLA (or a message similar, don't remember the exact wording).

If you agree, then you'll have to acknowledge the change and the prints starts.

 

With the S5, it's the same scenario, but after starting the job, it is terminated within a minute, without doing anything and the job is archived in the history.

Edited November 27, 2018 by V3DPrinting

[Smithy 1,144]

Ok, so you have the printers in a Cura Connect group, right?

That could be the reason why I don't get this failure, I don't have my printers in a group, I send the jobs directly to the UM3 or S5 and then it is working even without a warning message and the printers start immediately. 

[V3DPrinting 11]

Correct.

 

I had to reconfigure Cura Connect with the S5 grioup host and the two UM3 part of it, after resetting all printers’ queue.

 

The issue is only on the S5. The two UM3 are behaving like before.

[V3DPrinting 11]

Quick update.

 

I have tried to print a dual extrusion job, using PVA. But I put the PVA Spool in the dry box, just put the Tough PLA spool on the NFC.

 

I've got the warning as the PVA Is recognized as generic in the S5.

I've replaced the configuration and acknowledged, the job started without issues.

 

So is the problem linked to the main material not using NFC ?

[NBull 14]

I dit have the same problem with my S5 at the start, meanly when I tried to send prints over wifi. I have newer gotten the wifi to work. So now its on a cable and i don't have any problmes. 

 

I don't know have the problem sould be related, but after instaling the cable its gone. Maby it was just a coincidence!

 

(By the way, when I'm using a drybox / polybox I normaly take of the cardboard peice with the NFC and plase it on the normal spole holder to ensure it gets the signal)

Edited November 28, 2018 by NBull
misspellings

[V3DPrinting 11]

Thanks for your inputs.

 

I use LAN / cable connection from the start as wifi is not reliable and with lower speed than LAN Connection.

 

The other point is for cost reasons, I don't use that much Ultimaker filament : too expensive for PLA / ABS / PETG / ASA / Nylon then renowned brands on the market (ColorFabb, Polymaker, FormFutura, Taulman, ...). Quality is very good, but the third parties are also very good.

 

As the S5 is commercialized as compliant with third party materials, using the Generic profile or derived from generic, it should work.

 

I need to do some more tests tomorrow morning, as I had a print working this afternoon with the material 2 non NFC (tough is was Ultimaker PVA) and material 1 NFC recognized.

[Smithy 1,144]

3 hours ago, V3DPrinting said:

I've got the warning as the PVA Is recognized as generic in the S5.

 

Yes, this is normal or in other words, the UM material will be detected via the NFC tag only if the spool is on the reel holder. If you put your UM PVA in a dry box, then you have to select generic PVA in Cura and you will not get a warning message. UM PVA profile and the generic PVA profile are identical so don't worry about different settings. 

 

So select in Cura UM materials only if the spool is on the NFC reel holder and the printer has detected the material itself. If you have to select the material manually at the printer you have to select the generic profiles in Cura.

 

Another example, I have one spool UM PLA Black which has a NFC tag, but could not be detected by the printer. So I have to select manually PLA from the selection on the printer and have to use generic PLA in Cura, otherwise, I would get the warning message.

 

2 hours ago, NBull said:

(By the way, when I'm using a drybox / polybox I normaly take of the cardboard peice with the NFC and plase it on the normal spole holder to ensure it gets the signal)

 

This is possible, but not necessary. You win nothing with it, except that you don't have to select the material from the list. For the printer, it doesn't matter if you select PLA from the list or the printer detects UM PLA itself via NFC chip.

[V3DPrinting 11]

Thanks Smithy for reformulating your previous post.

 

I'm pretty used to Cura / Cura Connect as I operate 2 Ultimaker 3 Extended for a year now with Cura Connect.

 

I have created profiles in Cura derived from the generic profiles. See pic.

 

When I load the material on my UM3, I just select the PLA on the UM3.

 

Sending the job to Cura Connect, it will be pending until you change the configuration as prompted in the warning message in Cura Connect. Then you confirm the change et voila ! The print starts.

 

If I want to do the same with my S5, in the last step, I confirm the change, the print starts and then aborts within 30 seconds.

 

But if I take the same material configuration, change the printer in Cura to UM3E, using the same Cura Connect, it works fine.

 

So the problem is definitely with the S5. Something in the firmware....

[Smithy 1,144]

9 minutes ago, V3DPrinting said:

Thanks Smithy for reformulating your previous post.

I'm pretty used to Cura / Cura Connect as I operate 2 Ultimaker 3 Extended for a year now with Cura Connect.

 

 

I know, sorry for that, but I thought it was not so clear because of this post:

4 hours ago, V3DPrinting said:

I have tried to print a dual extrusion job, using PVA. But I put the PVA Spool in the dry box, just put the Tough PLA spool on the NFC.

 

I've got the warning as the PVA Is recognized as generic in the S5.

 

So I thought you have selected UM PVA in Cura and you are wondering why this message is shown.

 

If I have time over the weekend I will try to create a Cura Connect group and put my UM3 and the S5 in the group. If it is a bug with the S5 I should get the same issues.

 

But another question: Why do you use a group mixed with UM3 and S5? I also thought about to do it, but I am not sure if I have any advantage over just using each printer alone. So is it easier to handle for you?

[V3DPrinting 11]

Thanks for you reply

 

I haven't tried reconfiguring the printers in order to recreate my UM3 group and an S5 group, maybe it will work. But I need to have all my printer available and reboot them / reset cura connect.

 

The reasons why I made only one group are :

- you can use the Cura connect app on smartphone and have a view of all your printer from outside (yes I use a VPN for that)

- same through a browser.

- you have some very cool features in Cura Connect when the server is the S5 : reprint a job already done without having to re slice in Cura.

 

By the way, the only way to have S5 and UM3 in the same Cura Connect Group is to set the S5 Group Host..

 

Tomorrow I will try to print a job using only generic material, as I rebooted the S5 this morning and the fact I managed to print a job with material 2 non NFC may be a good clue.

[Smithy 1,144]

Thanks for the information, I think I should try the group feature and see if there are any benefits for me. Basically I can do all the things now too, but I have to switch in the app the printer or select the printer via web directly. 

 

I read that you have to recreate the group each time you do a Cura Reset on your printer and due the fact that I have to do that every few days on my UM3 I never tried it. But maybe with the S5 as the host/master I don't need the resets anymore.

 

I will try it and come back with feedback....

[V3DPrinting 11]

As said, I have done some more testing

 

I have first rebooted my S5, but not resetted the Cura Connect.

 

I have created a single extrusion job using ColorFabb Black PLA. I created the material from the Generic PLA, just renamed it and put the right parameters in. See pics 1 and 2

 

I have loading the filament in the S5, without any NFC, but I picked the PLA option when the printer said filament was not detected.

 

I have send the job to Cura Connect (hosted on my S5)

 

I've got the usual warning on Cura Connect as there is a mismatch between Cura and S5 conf. See pic 3

 

I clicked on the Replace button then confirmed. Pic 4

 

Then the job started on the printer and terminated 30 seconds after and went to the history as done.

Nothing printed.

 

So I am unable to print any third party material nor Ultimaker material without NFC.

 

I've set up the same job using Ultimaker Tough PLA Black and loaded it in the S5 using the NFC. And the job is printing ...

 

So I bought a printer that prints only the manufacturer material though is it stated in the tech specs that it's compliant with third party material.

For a 6K professional grade printer it is a serious issue and I may reconsider my purchase.

[Smithy 1,144]

3 minutes ago, V3DPrinting said:

So I am unable to print any third party material nor Ultimaker material without NFC.

 

I've set up the same job using Ultimaker Tough PLA Black and loaded it in the S5 using the NFC. And the job is printing ...

 

So I bought a printer that prints only the manufacturer material though is it stated in the tech specs that it's compliant with third party material.

 

I am sorry to say, but this is not completely correct. There is maybe a bug with the Cura Connect group functionality, but it is not true that you are not able to print none Ultimaker materials with your printer. You are not able to print via Cura Connect group, but if you send the job directly to the printer via the network, without a group, then it will work because of that's the way I print with my S5 with none UM materials.

 

More things to try:

Disable extruder 2 if you don't use it and see if there is any difference.

Strange thing is, that Cura marks the material orange, which indicates a problem or warning, I don't have this warning when using a custom material. So maybe there is also a mismatch with the material/extruder in your custom profile you use. So a test with a Cura default profile instead of your S5 PLA fast would be interesting

 

Maybe the orange warning comes from your configured material diameter, you set it to 2.83 instead of 2.85. But I have tried it here in my Cura and there is still no warning, so I guess it comes from your custom profile.

 

[V3DPrinting 11]

2 minutes ago, Smithy said:

 

I am sorry to say, but this is not completely correct. There is maybe a bug with the Cura Connect group functionality, but it is not true that you are not able to print none Ultimaker materials with your printer. You are not able to print via Cura Connect group, but if you send the job directly to the printer via the network, without a group, then it will work because of that's the way I print with my S5 with none UM materials.

 

 

I've bought a package hardware and software. As advertised, the S5 should work with Cura Connect, not connecting directly to the printer.

 

One of the Ultimaker selling argument is to have Cura Connect to manage all your printers....

 

Regarding the warning, I have also noticed it, but it works fine on the UM3 in the same Cura Connect group.

 

I'm may reinstall from scratch Cura purging all the preferences, materials and profiles. But first I'll do the test with the default Fast profile.

 

BTW, if all the spools must have 2,85mm diameter to comply with Cura and Ultimaker environnement, there is more than a bug, it's a design flaw.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I had issues with the material override, for me it does not work from cura, but does work from the connect que....

 

https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/issues/4897

[V3DPrinting 11]

It's very similar to my issue.

Except I have the problem in Cura Connect queue.

And the problem is only with the S5. No issues with UM3 in the same Cura Connect Group.

 

I haven't tested directly from Cura Monitor tab. Will do it

[P3D 46]

25 minutes ago, V3DPrinting said:

BTW, if all the spools must have 2,85mm diameter to comply with Cura and Ultimaker environnement, there is more than a bug, it's a design flaw.

 

Huh? Bowden tubes, nozzles, the whole hotend, almost everything has to be matched to a specific filament diameter. For most printers that's 1,75mm, for others (mainly Ultimaker, these days) it is 2,85mm. I can see neither a bug nor a design flaw in this regard. Cura, on the other hand, doesn't have any problems with diameters other than 2,85mm.

[V3DPrinting 11]

1 minute ago, P3D said:

 

Huh? Bowden tubes, nozzles, the whole hotend, almost everything has to be matched to a specific filament diameter. For most printers that's 1,75mm, for others (mainly Ultimaker, these days) it is 2,85mm.

 

I agree on that. I was too quick.

 

having a 2.85 mm system, the spools you buy don’t always match exactly the nominal diameter

it’s part of the manufacturing process. So the filaments diameter has to be adjusted to the real one for fine tuning purpose.

Cura supports that feature, like S3D or any slicer.

 

So it is not the reason why I cannot override the material nor why I have a warning.

[V3DPrinting 11]

I've done some more testing.

 

First I have noticed, after tinkering around with the materials, that the warning in Cura on the material as disappeared, without playing with the profiles. So there is maybe an issue with my cura application support folder (I'm on Mac)

 

Having that said, I have recreated from the Generic PLA my ColorFabb, changed my filament, going to a ColorFabb Black PLA and loading it with the PLA profile non NFC.

 

I made a first test using the default Fast profile, sent to Cura Connect, and the job had been assigned to the S5 and print has started.

Then I took my custom profile and sent it to Cura Connect and the job had been assigned to the S5 and print has started.

 

I took an old ColorFabb PLA Black created months ago and used on my UM3 without any issues. The job had been assigned to the S5 and then I had the warning message in Cura Connect and the issue when overriding the material.

 

So I agree that the S5 and its environnement is able to print third party materials.

But there is a bug in Cura Connect, affecting only the S5 when overriding the materials.

And my Cura 3.6 is somewhere corrupted.

 

I will re install from scratch Cura on my Mac, time to write down all my profiles and materials.

[Smithy 1,144]

Good news!

 

9 minutes ago, V3DPrinting said:

I will re install from scratch Cura on my Mac, time to write down all my profiles and materials.

 

Don't forget to delete everything below the folder ~/Library/Application Support/cura, but double check that you have saved or written down all your profiles and customizations before.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

How I print with Non UM filaments.

 

Ohhhhh, say Colorfabb PLA.

 

I choose PLA. Set my desired temps and other stuff. Send through Cura Connect. Tell it to override. Easy peasy, Printer squeezy.

 

As for all the latest foo fufarahs, I just let it settle out a version or two. Today's software in general, too fast on release, too buggy. This goes for the entire tech industry. Basically, all users are beta testers it seems.

 

At least Team UM does not force it on you like MSoft does.

 

Edit: And I have not used a printer profile in almost 18 months because of this stuff happening.

Edited November 29, 2018 by kmanstudios