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Aluminum build plate update

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

You are not wrong, I chased the reseller a month or so back and need to do it again, shame we have to do this, the machine is NOT cheap and part of that cost is the after sales and backup ! ūüėŹ

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

Hi @Link, we're sorry to hear you have not received the additional build plate yet. I don't think you have to chase down the reseller, but if it makes feel more at ease knowing they haven't forgotten about you, you should definitely feel free to reach out to them. 

 

I'll also reach out to them to see where they stand. How has your Ultimaker been working for you in the mean time? Hope it helps, have a great day! 

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

Good afternoon, I am about to purchase Three S5 machines for my company and I just came across this thread. Your promotional material for the S5, such as the video showing the features on the main S5 page on your website, still shows that the printer comes with an aluminum build plate. If this is no longer true, and has not been true for the past 8 months, it is extremely unprofessional (at the borderline between dishonest and negligent) to continue to advertise the feature on your site.

 

Additionally, your distribution partners such as PrintedSolid have not been informed, since their product page also states that the printer comes with an Aluminum build plate.

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Posted (edited) · Aluminum build plate update

Hej Ocieward, if you haven't already bought the S5 i would consider looking for something else. this is a good hobby machine but nowhere near the professional hardware it's sold and prices as.

 

Btw. PrintedSolid is not the only company still advertising with the aluminum plate. So Im guessing that Ultimaker value the sale more that happy consumers and honesty. 

Edited by NBull

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
21 minutes ago, NBull said:

Hej Ocieward, if you haven't already bought the S5 i would consider looking for something else. this is a good hobby machine but nowhere near the professional hardware it's sold and prices as.

 

Btw. PrintedSolid is not the only company still advertising with the aluminum plate. So Im guessing that Ultimaker value the sale more that happy consumers and honesty. 

 

I can second this. It is a good machine, but far away from the "plug and print" experience that is advertised, and the print quality and accuracy is still not where I would expect it at that price point (which may be more of a software than a hardware issue, but it doesn't look like Cura is going to get drastically better suddenly). Honestly (and I hope UM won't ban me from this forum for this), if the printing volume of a Prusa i3 is enough for your needs and you don't really need (and by that I mean, *really need*) dual extrusion, I would probably get that one. (And I would start with one machine, not with three).

If, however, you *need* dual extrusion (not "like to have it"), AND need the big build volume of the S5, then you can consider it - but still, look around a bit before you really order your machine.

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
6 hours ago, NBull said:

So Im guessing that Ultimaker value the sale more that happy consumers and honesty. 

First of all it's the resellers making mistakes.  Not Ultimaker.  I'm sure Ultimaker passed that responsibility onto the resellers because being a reseller is a lot of work and they wanted to concentrate on designing and building excellent printers.

 

I'm a reseller of different products (I don't sell 3d printers) and I can tell you I would never make a sale by deceiving customers because that just comes back to bite you later.  It's much easier to fix the product description now than deal with 20 angry customers later.  At the same time some of my product descriptions should have been updated many months ago.

 

The guy who founded printedSolid is a great guy but I think he got burned out and quit recently - it's really a ton of work (maybe he quit for some other reason).  The people still there are just as good however and they have great service and are knowledgeable.

 

The aluminum plates just don't work.  They work for a while but then they slowly warp due to the repeated heating and cooling and become useless.  Unfortunately the first sample plates they got somehow worked for a long time (over a year I think) and now no one can duplicate that.

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

Hi @ocieward, thank you for your message and flagging this. If a reseller still has it listed as a feature we will reach out and make sure the information displayed it correct. If you come across any reseller or source who still lists this as a feature, please feel free to flag this with us so we can reach out to them and ensure all information is correct. 

 

I'm sorry to hear if the Ultimaker S5 left some room to desire for user NBull and P3D. If there is anything we can do to help you get more out of your machine feel free to let us know. One thing I read in your comment was dimensional accuracy, and depending on what you're after, with some changes to a print profile you can already make some good progress, if the existing profile does not give you what you need. 

 

And in general I think it is always a good idea to orientate yourself before you make a commitment, but I am very confident about the capabilities of Ultimaker ūüôā

 

If @ocieward has some further questions or uncertainties in his search for a 3D printer, please feel free to let us know! This great community of 3D printing experts is here to help! 

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
8 hours ago, P3D said:

 

I can second this. It is a good machine, but far away from the "plug and print" experience that is advertised, and the print quality and accuracy is still not where I would expect it at that price point (which may be more of a software than a hardware issue, but it doesn't look like Cura is going to get drastically better suddenly). Honestly (and I hope UM won't ban me from this forum for this), if the printing volume of a Prusa i3 is enough for your needs and you don't really need (and by that I mean, *really need*) dual extrusion, I would probably get that one. (And I would start with one machine, not with three).

If, however, you *need* dual extrusion (not "like to have it"), AND need the big build volume of the S5, then you can consider it - but still, look around a bit before you really order your machine.

 

I don't want to sound like a total fan boy, but...... I have owned and still own a number of printers from many manufacturers, including Prusa and nothing comes close the UM printers for accuracy, print quality and repeatability. The reality is FDM by its very nature of melting plastic and extruding it on top of another layer of plastic will mean there are a level of variables which will always be present, different brands of filament, ambient temperatures etc etc, to get a FDM printer to be totally plug and play is just not possible, however you can get close and (for me) UM get by far the closest. 

When I owned the Prusa I would spend more time tweaking the printer than printing parts, which at first was fun but then just got annoying. Obviously the price point is different, but for me the UM printers offer as near as plug and play as you can get and once you know what you are doing and update profiles for different models and materials they are (for me anyway) as good as it will likely get for FDM. And as for accuracy and print quality, way way better than the Prusa for example (for me anyway). 

 

Still haven't got my glass plate though ūüėõūüėõ......

 

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
12 minutes ago, Link said:

 

I don't want to sound like a total fan boy, but...... I have owned and still own a number of printers from many manufacturers, including Prusa and nothing comes close the UM printers for accuracy, print quality and repeatability. The reality is FDM by its very nature of melting plastic and extruding it on top of another layer of plastic will mean there are a level of variables which will always be present, different brands of filament, ambient temperatures etc etc, to get a FDM printer to be totally plug and play is just not possible, however you can get close and (for me) UM get by far the closest. 

When I owned the Prusa I would spend more time tweaking the printer than printing parts, which at first was fun but then just got annoying. Obviously the price point is different, but for me the UM printers offer as near as plug and play as you can get and once you know what you are doing and update profiles for different models and materials they are (for me anyway) as good as it will likely get for FDM. And as for accuracy and print quality, way way better than the Prusa for example (for me anyway). 

 

Still haven't got my glass plate though ūüėõūüėõ......

 

 

Then we have very different experiences.

 

For me, it has always been a struggle to get good quality, accurate parts off the S5. I had to endlessly tweak profiles, and in many cases had to resort to editing the CAD file to get accurate dimensions, something I never had to do with our MarkForged printer - which is also just a bowden FDM machine in the end. What I have seen from my work colleagues Prusa i3 Mk 3 just blows the S5 prints out of the water.

 

I did get some good prints off the S5 and it has been quite reliable, but I can say the same about my Anycubic i3 Mega for 1/20th of the price...

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

Hi @P3D, If you print with PLA or Tough PLA, here are some profile settings that are likely to improve your dimensional accuracy. Perhaps you can give them a try! 

Line width: 0.4
Wall thickness: 1.2
Top/Bottom thickness: 1.2
Speeds: 40
Jerks: 20
Horizontal expansion: -0.03
walls: 3

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
19 hours ago, gr5 said:

First of all it's the resellers making mistakes.  Not Ultimaker.  

 

I agree and disagree. Yes it's not directly Ultimaker fault that the resellers don't update their info.

 

But for a company that claim to have a strong relationship with there resellers. And focuses on the consumer. I still think that they are responcebole to follow up on the status.

 

The mistake in the first place lies on Ultimaker for selling a product they don't deliver. not the resellers. And yes I acknowledge mistakes happen, don't get me wrong. 

 

19 hours ago, gr5 said:

and I can tell you I would never make a sale by deceiving customers because that just comes back to bite you later.  It's much easier to fix the product description now than deal with 20 angry customers later.  At the same time some of my product descriptions should have been updated many months ago.

 

I agree, it will bit you later and that is exactly whats happening here. Yes mistakes happen. But offering a compensation that has so much lower value is a joke. and will only make the customer feel like they have ben cheated.

 

it's a 9000,- machine so I personally think the description update should be be prioritised.

 

19 hours ago, gr5 said:

The aluminum plates just don't work.  They work for a while but then they slowly warp due to the repeated heating and cooling and become useless.  Unfortunately the first sample plates they got somehow worked for a long time (over a year I think) and now no one can duplicate that.

 

Again I agree there's nothing wrong in withdrawing or canceling a faulty product. But the way Ultimaker handled this is criticising in many ways.

 

17 hours ago, Link said:

When I owned the Prusa I would spend more time tweaking the printer than printing parts, which at first was fun but then just got annoying.

 

This is exactly my problem, just with the S5. I spend more time tweaking the thing then I do printing. trying to get near the alleged accuracy. if it doesn't stall on the autolevelling an don't print at all.

 

At the moment it's just sitting on the shelf as a 9000,- paper weight, and I have to get my prints don by another company. So no im not happy with this printer. 

 

Was I just unlucky and godt a lemon from the start, I cant say, maybe.


Is it me thats doing it wrong, maybe. But using a standart profiles with original material almost destroyed the print head so its probably not only my fault. 

 

But non the less, this machine don't work as what I was sold and paid for. 

 

2 hours ago, SandervG said:

Hi @P3D, If you print with PLA or Tough PLA, here are some profile settings that are likely to improve your dimensional accuracy. Perhaps you can give them a try! 

Line width: 0.4
Wall thickness: 1.2
Top/Bottom thickness: 1.2
Speeds: 40
Jerks: 20
Horizontal expansion: -0.03
walls: 3

 

If this is the go to settings for accuracy why don't you implement them in your standard profiles?

 

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

Just a thought there @NBull: given the problems you had with your S5, which is clearly not normal given that UM printers are as close to plug and play as can be right now, have you considered contacting your reseller and asking for an exchange?

 

It is very possible that you got a faulty one, it will happen no matter how rigorously they're tested before leaving the factory floor, and asking for an exchange might have solved your problem. When I bought my UM3E, I had difficulty printing and realized quickly that the glass plate was way too bent to be usable. I contacted my reseller and they send me a new one free of charge.

 

I know it's not the same value, but Ultimaker's policies are geared towards customer satisfaction, as much as possible, and there's also consumer laws, which are quite protective of the consumer in the EU.

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

Hej @Brulti this is probably gonna be a bit long, and don't know if its fitting for this topic. if not, Mods. are free to move it.
 
I did actually consult this forum a long time ago, asking if this was really the quality I could expect.

Also pointing out that the machine was assemble very poorly. And that each screw on the left side was over torqued, so that the screws was deforme. Theres also a piece of a screwdriver (lack of better word) stuck in one of the stepmothers so I cant move it. but did not get any feedback in the forum.  

 

My resellers anser to the screw was that they would just replace it ones I handed it in for service, the steepmotors would work fin with only the tre screws.

 

When the machine grinded the print head, I first thought that it was a faulty z-axel and dit hand over the printer to the reseller to look at. they dit a test print and could not finde any problems. and sugested that it was a temporally bug. 

 

So yes i have been in contact with my reseller without getting any real usable help.

 

I bort the machine as b2b so cant get any help from the consumer law. 

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

Wow, that's some very poor customer service from the reseller, and also a quite badly assembled printer. I find it quite improbable that UM would let such a printer get shipped out to customer and I wonder if the reseller did not sell you a printer that was returned to them, or one that they actually screwed up with (pun intended¬†ūüėČ ) and decided to still make some money out of it.

 

Maybe @SandervG could help?

 

The forum is a very nice place, full of helpful people, be they from UM like SandervG or just regular users like me, but it can happen that messages go under the radar for a number of reasons, like people being busy elsewhere and missing the message among all the activity that this forum sees on a daily basis. Else I'm quite sure you'd have some feedback from your previous message.

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
On ‚Äé8‚Äé/‚Äé7‚Äé/‚Äé2019 at 11:22 PM, NBull said:

Hej Ocieward, if you haven't already bought the S5 i would consider looking for something else. this is a good hobby machine but nowhere near the professional hardware it's sold and prices as.

 

 

On ‚Äé8‚Äé/‚Äé7‚Äé/‚Äé2019 at 11:54 PM, P3D said:

 

I can second this. It is a good machine, but far away from the "plug and print" experience that is advertised, and the print quality and accuracy is still not where I would expect it at that price point (which may be more of a software than a hardware issue, but it doesn't look like Cura is going to get drastically better suddenly). Honestly (and I hope UM won't ban me from this forum for this), if the printing volume of a Prusa i3 is enough for your needs and you don't really need (and by that I mean, *really need*) dual extrusion, I would probably get that one. (And I would start with one machine, not with three).

If, however, you *need* dual extrusion (not "like to have it"), AND need the big build volume of the S5, then you can consider it - but still, look around a bit before you really order your machine.

 

 

Care to explain that in a PM as to not Hijack this post as I am just days away from plopping down a months takehome on an S5

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Posted (edited) · Aluminum build plate update
On 8/9/2019 at 9:03 AM, SandervG said:

Hi @P3D, If you print with PLA or Tough PLA, here are some profile settings that are likely to improve your dimensional accuracy. Perhaps you can give them a try! 

Line width: 0.4
Wall thickness: 1.2
Top/Bottom thickness: 1.2
Speeds: 40
Jerks: 20
Horizontal expansion: -0.03
walls: 3

 

Thanks for providing these settings, I will certainly give them a try!

 

Do similar settings exist for CPE, perhaps? That is the main material apart from ColorFabb's XT-CF20 that we print with right now.

 

However, I will also second @NBulls question - if these settings do improve the accuracy, why aren't they included in the standard profiles, perhaps as an "accuracy" or "engineering" profile, as opposed to a "speed" or "general usage" profile? Since using Ultimaker Materials on an Ultimaker printer should ensure that  Ultimaker does have complete control over all aspects of printing, there would certainly be a possibility for the UM profile authors to make really accurate profiles for these materials?

 

 

 

 

Edited by P3D

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

Hi @NBull, please feel free to send me a DM with more information about where you are located and where you bought your Ultimaker S5. I'll connect you with someone from our support team, who can take a look into your situation and see where we can help you so you can as well start enjoying your Ultimaker S5 as you were supposed to from the start. 

 

@P3D¬†Currently these settings seem to be dialled in for PLA / Tough PLA and to increase dimensional accuracy you may expect a decrease in speed (life is a balance). We're looking into the options you have listed ūüôā

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
22 hours ago, SandervG said:

 

@P3D¬†Currently these settings seem to be dialled in for PLA / Tough PLA and to increase dimensional accuracy you may expect a decrease in speed (life is a balance). We're looking into the options you have listed ūüôā

 

I tried the settings you recommended, the dimensions are better, they are not quite there yet but better than I am used to. I don't really care about maximum speed if my parts come out with reasonable tolerances. 

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

Feel free to (create a new thread and) share your results. It would be interesting to see, and perhaps we can help to fine tune that last stretch, and it could be useful for others too. If you are interested. 

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

I have to admit the default profiles have always confused me in that there are obvious issues with some of them and better prints can be achieved by changing them. Which is odd as the user is encouraged to use them out of the box for the optimal print. 

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update

I think that is a characteristic in the foundation of a 'one size fits all' approach. They are always good (when done well), but probably never perfect. Customisation or optimising for a specific model could very well lead to better results, when you know what you are doing. But in order to ensure a good start and get familiar with our products and technology, the profiles are indeed the best place to start.

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
On 8/15/2019 at 11:38 AM, SandervG said:

I think that is a characteristic in the foundation of a 'one size fits all' approach. They are always good (when done well), but probably never perfect. Customisation or optimising for a specific model could very well lead to better results, when you know what you are doing. But in order to ensure a good start and get familiar with our products and technology, the profiles are indeed the best place to start.

 

I have to disagree. As shown by MarkForged and their printers, it is indeed possible to create profiles that are accurate for all models and not much slower than the default Cura profiles. Yes, MarkForged has complete control of their ecosystem (printers, software, materials), but so does Ultimaker.

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Posted (edited) · Aluminum build plate update
On 8/19/2019 at 7:26 AM, P3D said:

 

I have to disagree. As shown by MarkForged and their printers, it is indeed possible to create profiles that are accurate for all models and not much slower than the default Cura profiles. Yes, MarkForged has complete control of their ecosystem (printers, software, materials), but so does Ultimaker.

 

Are you trying to compare a 40k printer with a 5k printer? 

Edited by mkaj2019

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
25 minutes ago, mkaj2019 said:

 

Are you trying to compare a 40k printer with a 5k printer? 

 

If you wanna compare printer to printer, then no it's not a reasonable comparison.

 

But this is about the print profiles. The comparison lies in the fact that bout MarkForged and Ultimaker controles the whole supply chain. Printer, Fillement and Software so from that point i think its an resenebole comparison.

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
1 hour ago, NBull said:

 

If you wanna compare printer to printer, then no it's not a reasonable comparison.

 

But this is about the print profiles. The comparison lies in the fact that bout MarkForged and Ultimaker controles the whole supply chain. Printer, Fillement and Software so from that point i think its an resenebole comparison.

 

The problem with your statement is the assertion that there is a magical profile that will work on all models for the same filament.  In practically every form of automated manufacturing, the "profile" changes or must be adapted to meet the needs of the end product.  When I print on my S5, I end up printing most things out of black UM Tough PLA.  For every model, I start with the basic profile and slightly tweak according to what I want to achieve.  These tweaks are generally:  wall counts, infill %/patterns, top/bottom patterns, etc.  Never have I had to mess with the core of the profiles like:  fan settings, bed/nozzle temps, encoders step values or anything you often find discussed in forums like this.  I understand that people do not want to spend all of their time tweaking, neither do I, especially since I use mine in a professional environment.  When I "tweak" the profile, it takes all of about 1-2 minutes before i'm done and its off to the printer.  In my 6-9 months with this printer, I have had only half a dozen, or less failed prints.  These failures were not attributed to a poor profile as much as they were multiple models with long print times and in difficult material.

 

Contrary to other posts on here, my S5 is about as close to plug and play as I have ever seen.  My time on Cura is often shorter than the boot time when I open it for the first time.  On top of that, the majority of my prints are turned on right before I leave the office and will not get done till sometime the next day.  Great results almost everytime.

 

 

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