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Aluminum build plate update

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
2 hours ago, mkaj2019 said:

 

Are you trying to compare a 40k printer with a 5k printer? 

 

Ummm no, maybe more like comparing a 4k printer to a 6k printer? (Onyx One vs. UM S5). Of course the build volume is bigger with the S5, and the material costs are quite a bit higher with the Markforged, but still I think this is a valid comparison, as it is about how accurate the profiles are (how dimensions come out when printed when compared to CAD.

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Posted (edited) · Aluminum build plate update
2 hours ago, NBull said:

 

If you wanna compare printer to printer, then no it's not a reasonable comparison.

 

But this is about the print profiles. The comparison lies in the fact that bout MarkForged and Ultimaker controles the whole supply chain. Printer, Fillement and Software so from that point i think its an resenebole comparison.

 

Yeah, in the end you are absolutely right. The standard profiles are mostely inadequate and this has nothing to do with instrument variances. Some of the profiles suffer from overextrusion (like ToughPLA) with the 0,4 nozzle, No linear advance, bad xy accuracy, temp issues (230°C for Ultimaker Nylon with a 0,25 nozzle is way to low and results in absolutely no layer adhesion, I'm printing with 245°C now)...

 

BUT I think this should be discussed in different topics and not in the aluminium build plate topic.

 

In my opinion the missing  aluminium build plate is not a loss. Whether aluminium or glass plate, i think both are not an optimal solution because in most cases you need some kind of printing adhesive. I tried the glasplate for 1 week on the S5 and then ordered a Filaprint magnetic Switch Plate system by Filafarm for the S5.  (I'm still using the glass plate but only with PA and PC). The magnetic printing plates are so much more practical and I don't constantly cut my fingers on the S5 metal clamps.

 

I purchased the S5 only because of one major feature, the swappable print heads. I absolutely love this system. If you do not constantly need to swap the nozzles like me, then there are definitly better printers out there. The Raise3D Pro2 e.g. is a nice machine, that comes  with an aluminium build plate, has a closed chamber and better mechanics. 

 

 

Edited by mkaj2019

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
3 hours ago, mkaj2019 said:

 

Are you trying to compare a 40k printer with a 5k printer? 

The Onyx One started at $3500 and would probably be more comparable to Ultimaker, but is it as reliable/consistent as @P3D says?

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
4 hours ago, mkaj2019 said:

then ordered a Filaprint magnetic Switch Plate system by Filafarm for the S5

 

I am thinking about buying the Filaprint Switch Plate. One question, is the auto leveling still working with it and without damaging the surface of the build plate?

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Posted (edited) · Aluminum build plate update

To be frank, I always cringe when I watch the hot nozzle running into the print Surface. The nozzle leaves barely visible marks, but no dents so far (after ~100 prints). I would love to have a bltouch on my S5 like on my DIY Printer at home. E.g. I want to print with PPprint Polypropylen (which comes way closer to the injection molded PP mechanical properties than the Ultimaker PP) but the specifically designed built surface for PPprint PP is a soft rubber material and therefore not compatible with the Ultimaker bed leveling System. I dont think it is possible to turn it off at the start with some G-Code command, but I also have not tried it yet.

 

Edited by mkaj2019

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
15 hours ago, Travis7s said:

The Onyx One started at $3500 and would probably be more comparable to Ultimaker, but is it as reliable/consistent as @P3D says?

 

We have a Mark Two in our company, which is (apart from the extra fiber extruder in the Mark Two) mechanically identical to the Onyx One. It delivers very consistent and accurate results. Of course, it isn't perfect either, but the printed dimensions are always very close to those in the CAD file, holes for centering pins or screws also being very accurate out of the box (which they'd better be, since you have no control over the printing profile at all).

 

Of course, MarkForged is in a comfortable position - they only have to deal with two materials, due to their closed system they can charge you quite some extra money for the filament, and they can control every single part of the printing process (apart from the user badly leveling the printer or improperly cleaning/glueing the build plate).

 

On the other hand, Ultimaker can also control every part of the printing process. They make the printers, the software and the filament, so it should be possible to provide high-quality profiles that "just work" (instead of just being a starting point for tinkering).

 

Back to Topic: One build plate "material" I really like is Anycubic's Ultrabase. I print PLA and PETG of various manufacturers with my i3 Mega, and I had close to zero adhesion issues while being able to just pick up the parts from the print plate with my hands after it had cooled to ambient temperature. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any possibility to buy such a plate seperately (it is glued to the heating elements), for example to replace the glass plate in an Ultimaker with this.

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
15 minutes ago, mkaj2019 said:

To be frank, I always cringe when I watch the hot nozzle running into the print Surface. The nozzle leaves barely visible marks, but no dents so far (after ~100 prints). I would love to have a bltouch on my S5 like on my DIY Printer at home. E.g. I want to print with PPprint Polypropylen (which comes way closer to the injection molded PP mechanical properties than the Ultimaker PP) but the specifically designed built surface for PPprint PP is a soft rubber material and therefore not compatible with the Ultimaker bed leveling System. I dont think it is possible to turn it off at the start with some G-Code command, but I also have not tried it yet.

 

 

The PPrint material you mention is quite interesting, so that material is approx. three times as stiff as the UM PP, if I interpret the data sheets correctly.

 

Can't you just disable automatic leveling and use manual leveling?

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
3 minutes ago, P3D said:

 

The PPrint material you mention is quite interesting, so that material is approx. three times as stiff as the UM PP, if I interpret the data sheets correctly.

 

Can't you just disable automatic leveling and use manual leveling?

 

This is unfortunatly not possible with the S5, as far as i know.

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Posted (edited) · Aluminum build plate update
10 minutes ago, mkaj2019 said:

 

This is unfortunatly not possible with the S5, as far as i know.

 

You're right (see this thread: https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/23706-disable-automatic-active-bed-levelling-for-ultimaker-s5)... that's bad, how on earth did UM get the idea that such behaviour (just not offering customers this option) would be acceptable?

 

The more you know, the less appealing UM printers look. Apart from the easy-swap cores, of course.

Edited by P3D

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
48 minutes ago, mkaj2019 said:

I dont think it is possible to turn it off at the start with some G-Code command, but I also have not tried it yet.

 

Thanks!

And no, for the S5 it is not possible to turn off the leveling.

 

So maybe I give it a try, I like the idea behind the switching system and I hate to apply, glue, Dimafix, Magigoo or whatever in the meantime.

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
47 minutes ago, P3D said:

 

You're right (see this thread: https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/23706-disable-automatic-active-bed-levelling-for-ultimaker-s5)... that's bad, how on earth did UM get the idea that such behaviour (just not offering customers this option) would be acceptable?

 

The more you know, the less appealing UM printers look. Apart from the easy-swap cores, of course.

 

The more you know, the faster you would understand the motivations behind such a decision. Users are not able to disable active leveling because of the size of the build plate in the Ultimaker S5. On previous generations you could do it manually, but this was a more forgiving process due to the build plates being smaller. With the larger build volume users may want to print larger objects, which require even longer unattended operations. With the expanded material portfolio, users are now also able to use a larger variety of materials, which may require more delicate bed levelling too.

So all this considered: It is crucial for your user experience that your bed is properly levelled and have good adhesion.

 

The most reliable way to ensure good levelling is to have the Ultimaker S5 do it. Every time. That's one part of the printing process that we took more control over, to ensure reliability. 

 

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Posted · Aluminum build plate update
3 hours ago, SandervG said:

The most reliable way to ensure good levelling is to have the Ultimaker S5 do it. Every time. That's one part of the printing process that we took more control over, to ensure reliability. 

 

Given that there are multiple threads complaining about the autolevel not working on the UM S5 and UM3 (including our S5, see below) doesn't speak for reliability. At the moment I'm counting on it being a firmware bug and I can work around by switching the printer off and on again, but that's not really worth the money spent...

 

Also, when giving the customer the opportunity to turn AL off they are responsible for successful large prints. Why don't you just say "fine, if you want to level by hand you can't blame us when your large print fails, just turn it on again", what is the problem with that?

 

By the way, I am printing with a slightly but proven to be bend glass plate at home for almost two years and nothing has failed. If you engineered the bed carrier the right way (unlike those chinese people who invented my printer, which is the case as I can judge from what I see) and the manufacturer of your glass beds is not completely unfit, there should be no problems ever.

 

There are some other negative points with the S5, which I didn't expect from a high quality printer like that. But going back to the topic of this thread, I think a other-material build plate would be the next logical step to make the Ultimaker printers defending their place on the market. Printing on pure glass and having to fumble around with glue, tape or hairspray is not state of the art in 3D-printing anymore as there are many manufacturers who provide way better solutions for little money.