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S5 magnetic build plate


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Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

When UM dropped the aluminum build plate, which to be honest i didn't really think brought much value to the machine as flexible plates with low cost surface replacements are now preferred for Pet and other advanced materials, I had this prototype made up to test if this is a valid solution.

Photos here -> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DXcQfq6DHkns8ekg6

so far it's working perfectly and i'm very please with the outcome.

Is there any interest in a group buy? as a one off part it was quite expensive.

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Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

Nice, i am in in interested, if, and only if, the total concept of the UM5 stays intact, the automatic bed levelling with the glass plate is so perfect, that i can not mis this anymore. My UM3 feels like a old machine without this feature.

 

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Posted · S5 magnetic build plate
7 hours ago, RudydG said:

Nice, i am in in interested, if, and only if, the total concept of the UM5 stays intact, the automatic bed levelling with the glass plate is so perfect, that i can not mis this anymore. My UM3 feels like a old machine without this feature.

 

Six jobs done since the first post Friday. No issues with auto leveling.

This is not soft like some of the flex magnet solutions, the steel plate is held firmly against borofloat glass and does not move during leveling.

Ill shoot a video while leveling on the next reset.

 

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    • 2 years later...
    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

    Resurrecting this thread to see if there was any follow-up to this. I see that a few manufacturers are making flexible build plate systems for the S5 now, including WhamBam and BuildTak, among others; but I'm a bit nervous about actually trying it. Are you still using yours successfully?  Ever have bed leveling issues?  Anyone else out there using one of the commercially available ones and have any feedback?

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

    i have one of these coming in a few weeks to try on my 2+. I think it might fit my S3 too. (229mm x 257mm)

     

    I am pretty happy w PEI applied to my glass plate, but if the flex makes removal easier and works reliably in a UM...?

     

    Not sure if it will play nice w ASA, but I think ABS will be just fine.

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate
    9 hours ago, artistebot said:

    i have one of these coming in a few weeks to try on my 2+…

    Thanks for the reply, but I’m asking specifically about the S5. It has some unique things, particularly the auto bed leveling that cannot be turned off, that both make it behave differently than other machines and give me cause to worry, hence my inquiry. 

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    Posted (edited) · S5 magnetic build plate

    I am interested too. I want it for pla and petg... but I"m also interested in printing nylon and Igus filiments so PEI is definitely a surface I want too.

     

    I'm in if there is a group buy.

    Edited by kayakbabe
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    Posted (edited) · S5 magnetic build plate
    On 8/9/2021 at 4:20 PM, kayakbabe said:

    I am interested too. I want it for pla and petg... but I"m also interested in printing nylon and Igus filiments so PEI is definitely a surface I want too.

     

    I'm in if there is a group buy.

     

    So after some experimentation and communication with Fbrc8, I've determined that any build surface that can be damaged by a hot nozzle during bed-leveling isn't going to work. Normal PEI film takes indents from the hot nozzles during the bed-leveling that not only mess up the cosmetic finish of the part, but also results in bad readings on the mesh leveling. The problem is that the nozzles are hot when the bed probing starts, having just come off the priming process; but they are being allowed to cool as the probing goes on, so by the end of the probing, they are mostly cool and aren't pushing into the film as much, and therefore the machine gets different readings from beginning to end of the probing, resulting in a bad mesh.  I tried Kapton tape and the result was the same, although to a lesser degree as the Kapton I tested was a lot thinner than the PEI. 

     

    I plan to try a powder-coated PEI plate next, in hopes that the powder coating is less prone to taking an impression from the hot nozzle than the film version.  I'll report back with my findings, but right now, I'm not real hopeful for a build surface other than the glass, unless Ultimaker will change the start-up cycle to add in a cooling period before the probing starts, so the temperature of the nozzles is the same all the way through the probing process.

     

    If you want to play with it though, no need to wait for a group buy; WhamBam and Buildtak have them now, as do a couple of vendors on AliExpress.  Just be forewarned, it's probably not going to work out real well and you might be wasting your money.

    Edited by rachael7
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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

    Interesting about the nozzle temps changing as bed leveling progresses. Have you filed a bug report with Ultimaker about it? 

    I"m going to go ahead and get the build tak setup. I would have preferred something the same thickness for a build plate. Oh well. 

    The part I'm making of nylon isn't super critical, being able to get it off the bed easily is the most important thing for me right now.

     

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate
    2 minutes ago, kayakbabe said:

    Interesting about the nozzle temps changing as bed leveling progresses. Have you filed a bug report with Ultimaker about it? 

    I"m going to go ahead and get the build tak setup. I would have preferred something the same thickness for a build plate. Oh well. 

    The part I'm making of nylon isn't super critical, being able to get it off the bed easily is the most important thing for me right now.

     

    I haven't filed a bug report, because I don't think it would be considered a bug.  The nozzle temps aren't drifting or behaving oddly, they're just cooling from extrusion temperature (for priming) down to standby temperature (as they always do when not in use). The challenge for us is that they're doing that cooling while the machine is also probing the build plate. When probing a glass plate, the temperature of the nozzle doesn't matter, so from the perspective of an engineer working on the assumption that glass is the only build surface that will be used, it would be a waste of the user's time to wait for the nozzles to cool down to standby temperature before probing. In fact, I suspect that it might well have waited like that at one point, only to have the behavior changed in subsequent firmware, to save time in the startup sequence (a couple of FW revisions have focused on speeding that process up). At any rate, it has no impact on people using the machine with the specified glass build plate, so I doubt you'll convince UM to consider it a bug.

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate
    8 minutes ago, kayakbabe said:

    Interesting about the nozzle temps changing as bed leveling progresses. Have you filed a bug report with Ultimaker about it? 

    I"m going to go ahead and get the build tak setup. I would have preferred something the same thickness for a build plate. Oh well. 

    The part I'm making of nylon isn't super critical, being able to get it off the bed easily is the most important thing for me right now.

     

    Also, for what it's worth, I bought a piece of aluminum as a base for the magnet in my setup.  I used 2024-T3, since it is the likeliest to be flat, of the inexpensive alloys.  I chose the thickness (0.100") so that the combination of aluminum, magnet, and flex plate was about the same thickness as the glass, allowing the clamps to work normally and keeping the machine within the expected range of heights.

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

    I have purchased the Wham Bam build plate setup for our Ultimaker S5 and have been seeing lots of successful prints. It works dramatically better then the glass build plate and has had no issues with active leveling (I applied the magnet on top of the glass and then put the Wham Bam on top so it is higher then usual but the Ultimaker adjusts automatically).

     

    I will agree that I have seen the issue with the hotend slightly digging into the PEX coated aluminum surface, but in the time we have had it these small indents have causes no issues. It is in the same locations every time and it seems to only be a very minor (if almost even cosmetic) issue.

     

    I am on a company budget, but IMO the Wham Bam are 100% worth the investment. TBD how long they will last, but even if they only lasted a year would definitely be worth it compared to anything else. 

     

    Have printed Carbon Fiber Nylon, Polycarbonate, PLA, Abs, etc. all with no problems. Either way you go good luck!

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate
    22 hours ago, Josh_gpi said:

    I have purchased the Wham Bam build plate setup for our Ultimaker S5 and have been seeing lots of successful prints. It works dramatically better then the glass build plate and has had no issues with active leveling (I applied the magnet on top of the glass and then put the Wham Bam on top so it is higher then usual but the Ultimaker adjusts automatically).

    So glad to hear you're having good success with it! The problem I had was that the nozzle pressing into the PEI/PEX surface led the printer to set the zero point a little below the surface of the PEI/PEX. I tend to run thin first layers, commonly 0.10mm, and the offset created by the indent in the build surface was enough to make the nozzle way to close to the build surface on the first layer. Do you tend to run thicker first layers?  Or maybe you use a Z offset to compensate?  The stock profiles do have thicker first layers, so if you haven't changed that, perhaps that's why it's working for you.  I don't doubt that it is working for you, I'm just curious how you get around the zeroing problem.

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

    Hey Rachel,

     

    To answer your questions,

     

    It could be just straight marketing, but I think PEI and PEX are really two distinct surfaces. It could be just straight marketing, but I believe PEX is marketed as having a higher temperature resistance and this may help with this issue. (You can check out this thread on flexplates where they had issues with Buildtak and moved to Wham Bam and seemed to be doing well). As of this point, it does not seem that the zero point is below the surface, but over more extended time we may run into this issue with PEX...TBD. 


    I do tend to run thicker first layers (0.2mm) but this is because I don't have a need for thin layers. Also particularly for materials like PC this greatly helps with the prints imo.

     

    I do not use a Z offset to compensate currently, but I do have some custom profiles and settings in Cura for materials. I plan to post a thread soon about the rest of my setup if that would help.

     

    So I did not really get around the zeroing problem, it just has not been a problem for me thus far with Wham Bam.

     

    Also to wrap up just wanted to say,

     

    Although this might not technically be a bug, I agree that such a limited calibration setup (where you cannot calibrate before having a dangerously hot nozzle or disable heat for calibration, etc.) is very harmful to users and could dissuade people away from Ultimaker products. This greatly limits the flexibility and usefulness of the printers with flex plates, making them worse printers. Imo this should be treated like a very important bug and be resolved.

     

    Best of luck printing!

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate
    28 minutes ago, Josh_gpi said:

     

    Thanks so much for the information! You are correct, at least as far as marketing goes, that PEX and PEI are different. I've tried both though, including the one from WhamBam, and had pretty similar issues, so I was just using shorthand.

     

    Interesting that it hasn't been an issue for you. I suspect it is because of the 0.2mm first layers. I'll have to give that a try. I'll check out your other thread when it comes out, no need to detail other settings here. Thank you.

     

    I couldn't agree more about the limitations of the prime/de-prime/calibration sequences and I've voiced that pretty loudly to anyone who would listen at UM. It really lands wrong for me that such a capable machine, at such a high price point, would be arbitrarily locked down in the many ways it is. I get wanting to ensure consistent good results to inexperienced or semi-experienced users, and the desire to lock down the machine to accomplish that goal.  But I really feel like they should give us an "expert mode" or something like that which allows us  to get into the machine on a deeper level. I would happily accept whatever waivers or limitations of support that came with enabling such an option, as it would provide so much more flexibility and allow the machine to reach its full potential. Limiting the machine to only glue-on-glass build surfaces in 2021 is shortsighted - it leaves the machine several years behind where the tech is now and stops it from advancing as build surfaces inevitably continue to improve.

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

    It seems like it would be easy for UM to have the default startup as it is now, but to add a preferences setting to startup that keeps nozzles from heating until bed leveling is completed. That way those of us using alternatives to glass can choose to enable it if we wish. 

     

    Could this be done with a plug in?

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

    It's definitely not difficult to do. The question is if they will let us have that flexibility. Thus far, the answer has been no.

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    Posted · S5 magnetic build plate

    I have to add to this thread. I bought the BuildTak and am super pleased with it. No brainer install. Just put the magnetic layer on the glass and a pei sheet on the metal surface. No settings to change and the S5 just autolevels and goes along just fine. Way better than a glue stick, or hair spray. So far I"ve printed PLA and PETG and it's GREAT!

     

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