Problems with Ultimaker 2 + Extended Manage Material

[Rygaard 0]

Hi,

I am using Ultimaker 2+ Extended and I created a new material by modifying the Default Printing Temperature, Retraction Distance and Retraction Speed values.
I activated this custom material, I did a normal slice process and I saved the GCode on the s-card.
When printing started, I went to check in the Ultimaker 2+ settings if the values I set in the material created above were being used.
To my surprise, no Material value (custom material) was being used and I had to manually configure it in Ultimaker 2+.

I would like to know what I need to do? Could You help me?

I know the Ultimaker 2+ Extended Gcode flavor is Ultimaker2 which is made exclusively for the proper functioning of Ultimaker 2+, but it makes no sense to use this GCode flavor as Material settings are not being used by Ultimaker 2 +.

So, What would be the best decision to make for Ultimaker 2+ Extended?
 1) Change Gcode flavor? If so, for what GCode Flavor and what would be Start-Gcode and End G-Code to work corretly?
-- OR ----
2) Without changing Gcode Flavor, but would using the new Plugins called "Printer Settings" and "Material Settings" be the best solution?
- Using these plugins, how could I set the same default values used by GCode Flavor Ultimaker 2 so that no conflict or problem would happen? And so, I could change just a few necessary functions.

 

Thank you

[Smithy 1,144]

The difference is, that with UM gcode flavor, material is managed by the printer. So if you want to add a material or change parameter, you have to do it on the printer.

 

When switching to Marlin you can set these values in Cura.

[Rygaard 0]

 @Smithy Thanks for answering me!

So does it mean that when I create or duplicate an existing material in Manager Material, the function values will not be included in G-Code when I make Slice to save to S-Card?

Does this mean that I will always have to manually configure the retraction distance, retraction speed, nozzle temperature, etc. on the Ultinaker 2+?
All these settings, will I have to change quickly while in the Ultimaker display the Loading Bar is still loading before printing starts?

That would be bad. I thought that what I did in Manage Material would automatically be passed to G-Code ....

1- So it would be better to keep what I have and change manually in Ultimaker 2+?

2- Or would I better switch to GCode Flavor Marlin?

3- Or do I use the Printer Settings and Material Settings plugins on Cura's MarketPlace? The plugins seem to allow access to all functions, but I don't know if there would be any conflict with GCode Flavor Ultimaker2.

What would be the best option to control Ultimaker 2+ Extended?

I appreciate the patience ...

[Smithy 1,144]

Basically the difference is, that with Ultimaker flavor you have to choose the material on the printer, with Marlin you can select the material in Cura. Retraction settings are independent and should be used when set in Cura anyway (not 100% sure). 

 

And if you want to change i.e. the default print temperature for PLA, then you can do that on the printer and save the values. No need to do it before every print. But if you have different needs per print, then it is better to switch to Marlin.

 

Regarding your questions:

1. No - or only if you want to change a value and keep it for a while

2. Yes

3. Will not work with flavor Ultimaker

 

Besides the material thing, it doesn't matter if you use Ultimaker or Marlin flavor, with Marlin you have to set your start/end code in the printer profile, i.e. to prime the nozzle before print.

 

Personally I am lazy and use most of the time Ultimaker flavor, but I print only PLA on the UM2 printers, so for me it makes no difference. But when you plan to print with different materials and play with the temperature setting, go with Marlin.

[Smithy 1,144]

I just checked  it, it is only the print temperature which is handled by the printer in case of Ulticode, so everything else is in the GCode generated by Cura.

[Rygaard 0]

 @Smithy Your explanation was fantastic. Thank you very much! Now, I am beginning to understand better how things work here.

At the moment, I am only using PLA (but there are different manufacturers and types), but in the future I may use other materials.

There are prints that are specific as decoration statues (characters, creatures, animals and etc) that you to get the best print quality you need to change initial temperatures of the first layers, distance retraction, speed retraction and other specific functions.

I was not getting precise control with Flavor Ultimaker 2.

I always saw other people with total control over their impressions.
And it is only now that I understand that I have to first define Material PLA (some functions) in the printer, instead of defining all my functions in Manager Material and Print Settings to generate GCode and print what I had defined.

There are two Flavors named Marlin. Marlin and Marlin (volumetric). Which one would I have to choose for Ultimaker 2+?

If you could, would you please pass me the code Start G-Code and End G-Code so that it could work correctly on Ultmaker 2+? If I try to figure out Start and End GCodes on my own, I'm afraid of making a mistake and maybe breaking something.

I really appreciate your help and attention.

[Smithy 1,144]

Your are welcome!

 

The normal Marlin is the correct one, without volumetric.

 

I am sorry, but maybe someone else can post a Start/End GCode, because I have both Um2Go and UM2+ Ext. currently running with UltiCode flavor and have not saved the Gcode anywhere.

[Rygaard 0]

 @Smithy Thank you! I already thank you very much for everything.
 

Let me ask you something.
Using Flavor Ultimaker2, When I create new material in Manage Material in ultimakerCura, I choose this material that I defined in Cura, and I do Slice saving in S-Card. How do I get the Ultimaker 2+ printer to see and use my material that I created and defined in Cura?

I ask for a user who has Ultimaker 2+ and is using Flavor Marlin, please help me with Start and End GCodes ...

 

[Smithy 1,144]

If you create a new material profile in Cura or change the settings during slicing in custom settings doesn't matter. Everything you set for this new material will be included in the generated GCode, except the temperature. (Ultimaker flavor) This is because you have to select the type of material during loading of the filament on the printer and therefore the printer knows the temperature for this material. 

 

There is also a material list on the printer, so you can add new material via the printer menu or export the definition file to sd card and edit it with an editor. But be careful, make a backup first from the file in case you make any mistake. 

 

When you use Marlin flavor, then the temperature in Cura will be used.

 

But in any case, the materials you create in Cura will not be synced to the printer, so in case of Marlin it doesn't matter, you still have to choose the material during load, but this is only that the printer knows how hot the nozzle should be during the initial load process, so you can use any material which is "near" to that you want to use. 

[Rygaard 0]

 @Smithy One strange thing that happened when I went to manually check on the Ultimaker 2+ printer was that not only the temperatures, but also the Retraction Distance and probably the Retraction Speed of the Material that I set in Manage Materials (flavor Ultimaker 2) were not used.
Now, I know that I have to manually choose Materials on the Ultimaker 2+ printer (using Ultimaker 2 flavor).
Of course there are advantages to this process, but on the other hand, it complicates a bit (especially for beginners) who think they are defining and having full control of the settings and not really. In my opinion, it would be much easier to define these functions in Cura and the user is sure that what he has defined will be used in GCode.

To a person like me beginner, it seems that using Marlin is easier to use and understand.

Please see if these steps would be correct if I used Marlin:
1) In Cura, I would create and define Material within Manage Material of Cura. Choosing it.
2) Still in Cura, if necessary, I would change some settings like initial temperature and others temperatures functions, retraction and other functions in Cura's Print Settings. (All of these functions I'm talking about are hidden because of Flavor Ultimaker 2).
3) I would make Slice and I would save GCode on the S-Card.
4) I would insert the S-Card into Ultimaker 2+ and I would have my file printed...
    OR
 Would I still have to manually choose the Material and only then have G-Code printed?

[Smithy 1,144]

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

but also the Retraction Distance and probably the Retraction Speed of the Material that I set in Manage Materials (flavor Ultimaker 2) were not used.

 

Yes could be, as said I was not sure because I never needed to tune these parameters on the UM2 printers. 

 

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

In my opinion, it would be much easier to define these functions in Cura and the user is sure that what he has defined will be used in GCode.

 

True, but for the UM2 nothing will be changed anymore. Beginning with UM3 everything is now in Cura.

 

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

Please see if these steps would be correct if I used Marlin:

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes, but when loading the material into the printer you have to choose a material. But only for the load process, everything else , for the print job, comes from gcode.

 

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

To a person like me beginner

I have seen you asked similar questions already 2017, so you are not really a fresh beginner anymore 🙂 

 

[Rygaard 0]

21 minutes ago, Smithy said:

I have seen you asked similar questions already 2017, so you are not really a fresh beginner anymore 🙂 

To be honest with you, since (2017) then I had kept the printer because there were so many particular problems in which I could not use the printer. Only 2 weeks ago I did open the printer and I started using the printer (as new. I know its crazy!). It may seem very strange after years, but things have unfortunately been that way with me.
So you can be sure that I am a beginner, however I am trying to learn all I can by myself. I'm a beginner and sometimes I have such basic questions that I'm ashamed to ask. I really appreciate everything you've been telling me because it's really helping me so much. Thank you so much! 🙂
I didn't even know that the ultimaker 2+ printer (in regards to the Material) should be manually set up on the printer, thanks to you, I can already configure things better here.
 

21 minutes ago, Smithy said:

4. Yes, but when loading the material into the printer you have to choose a material. But only for the load process, everything else , for the print job, comes from gcode.

That's great!

I'm seriously considering moving GCode Flavor to Marlin, but I still have to research a lot because I don't want to make mistakes. If I can't find anything, I'll keep Flavor Ultimaker2.
If anyone knows more about Flavor Marlin for Ultimaker 2+ I would appreciate it very much. Because to me it seems more obvious and easy to use configuring everything through Cura.

 

thank you for your patience... 🙂

Edited September 14, 2019 by Rygaard

[Smithy 1,144]

But you can just try to switch to Marlin, you can fine tune the start/end gcode later too. When you switch the flavor to Marin you already get a start/end gcode and maybe you don't need to tune there anything. 

 

I forgot in my previous post that there is already an initial code after switching. I used in the past Octoprint and therefore I needed some special codes, but just try the default one, it should work.

[Rygaard 0]

@Smithy I am using Cura4.2.1 and I switched Flavor to Marlin and no Start or End GCode appeared. I have attached an image that you can see that Cura has not entered any code at this time.
I'm a little lost right now. 😞

 

[Smithy 1,144]

Strange, I get there codes:

 

Start:

G21 ;metric values
G90 ;absolute positioning
M82 ;set extruder to absolute mode
M107 ;start with the fan off
G28 Z0 ;move Z to bottom endstops
G28 X0 Y0 ;move X/Y to endstops
G1 X15 Y0 F4000 ;move X/Y to front of printer
G1 Z15.0 F9000 ;move the platform to 15mm
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length
G1 F200 E10 ;extrude 10 mm of feed stock
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length again
G1 F9000
;Put printing message on LCD screen
M117 Printing...

End:

M104 S0 ;extruder heater off
M140 S0 ;heated bed heater off (if you have it)
G91 ;relative positioning
G1 E-1 F300  ;retract the filament a bit before lifting the nozzle, to release some of the pressure
G1 Z+0.5 E-5 X-20 Y-20 F9000 ;move Z up a bit and retract filament even more
G28 X0 Y0 ;move X/Y to min endstops, so the head is out of the way
M84 ;steppers off
G90 ;absolute positioning
;Version _2.6 of the firmware can abort the print too early if the file ends
;too soon. However if the file hasn't ended yet because there are comments at
;the end of the file, it won't abort yet. Therefore we have to put at least 512
;bytes at the end of the g-code so that the file is not yet finished by the
;time that the motion planner gets flushed. With firmware version _3.3 this
;should be fixed, so this comment wouldn't be necessary any more. Now we have
;to pad this text to make precisely 512 bytes.

 

[Rygaard 0]

@Smithy Thanks for posting the code that appeared to you.
Would this code work perfectly on Ultimaker2 +?

1) If I change GCode Flavor from Ultimaker2 to Marlin, what would it be like regarding the Ultimaker 2+ Firmware update?
Last week, I updated the Ultimaker 2+ firmware through ultimakerCura.
If I switch to Marlin, can I continue to update the firmware normally through ultimakerCura or do I have to do something else?

- Another question, switching to Marlin, do I have to immediately update the firmware again?
 

2) Yesterday I did a little test with Ultimaker 2+ (using GCode Flavor Ultimaker2). This time, I created a new custom material manually by the printer. I inserted the S-Card and I started printing. So, I saw for the first time that Material settings made manually by me through the printer were used (Printing Temperature = 200C, Build Plate Temperature = 60C, Retraction Distance = 5.50mm and etc). So far so good, I understand that Flavor Ultimaker2 works that way.

But what I would like to understand is how or what values Flavor Ultimaker2 sets for the following functions automatically:
- Default Printing Temperature
- Printing Temperature
- Printing Temperature Initial Layer
- Initial Printing Temperature
- Final Printing Temperature
- Build Plate Temperature Initial Layer
So what are these values that Flavor Ultimaker 2 would define?
 

3) Using Flavor Ultimaker 2, how would I define these specific temperature functions?
 

4) Using Flavor Ultimaker 2, ... and for some other functions that are hidden? In this case, just with Marlin?
 

I am still researching Start and End GCode for Marlin that works perfectly with Ultimaker 2+.
If I find it, I will make it available to everyone here who is willing to do the same as me.

 

Thank you very much

[Smithy 1,144]

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

Would this code work perfectly on Ultimaker2 +?

I think so, but I haven't tried it.

 

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

If I switch to Marlin, can I continue to update the firmware normally through ultimakerCura or do I have to do something else?

The gcode flavour has nothing to do with firmware updates, but UM2 will probably never get a new firmware anymore.

 

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

- Another question, switching to Marlin, do I have to immediately update the firmware again?

No

 

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

So what are these values that Flavor Ultimaker 2 would define?

I don't know, but should be configured in the material profile on the printer. If not then the printer calculates these values from your given printing temperature.

 

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

3) Using Flavor Ultimaker 2, how would I define these specific temperature functions?

Probably not possible, so switch to Marlin and set it in Cura.

 

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

4) Using Flavor Ultimaker 2, ... and for some other functions that are hidden? In this case, just with Marlin?

Yes

 

1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

I am still researching Start and End GCode for Marlin that works perfectly with Ultimaker 2+.
If I find it, I will make it available to everyone here who is willing to do the same as me.

Use and try the ones I posted, I think they should work, if not nothing bad happens.

 

[Rygaard 0]

@Smithy You don't know how you are helping me with your answers! I really appreciate it! 🙂
I will try the ones you posted! Thank you very much!

I don't know if you could answer me, but I think it might have to do with Flavor.
In the Extensions / Post Processing / Modify GCode menu there is a plugin called Display filename and Layer on LCD.

I tried using this plugin on flavor Ultimaker 2, but it didn't work. The name I set and the layer on the Ultimaker 2+ LCD didn't appear. So, I opened GCode and I saw that there is code coming from this plugin:
; LAYER: 0
M117 test layer 0

But when I am printing on the LCD only appears the time and written:
Time Left 0000 hours
  Printing:
cure_object_filename

Does this have anything to do with Flavor too? So does flavor Ultimaker 2 not accept these increments in GCode?
Would this plugin only work with Flavor Marlin?

[Smithy 1,144]

As far as I know this plugin doesn't work with Ultimaker printers, so it will also not work with the Marlin flavor.

[Rygaard 0]

I was starting to think about it. 😞

It would be nice to be able to see which layer Ultinaker 2+ is currently printing. But it's alright!
Thanks again for clarifying things!

Only tomorrow, I will start testing Flavor Marlin.
I will try to expose my progress here with Flavor Marlin so that everyone can see and give their opinions.

Thanks

[tinkergnome 927]

2 hours ago, Rygaard said:

But what I would like to understand is how or what values Flavor Ultimaker2 sets for the following functions automatically:
- Default Printing Temperature
- Printing Temperature
- Printing Temperature Initial Layer
- Initial Printing Temperature
- Final Printing Temperature
- Build Plate Temperature Initial Layer
So what are these values that Flavor Ultimaker 2 would define?

 

With gcode flavor "Ultimaker 2" there's only one printing temperature that is used for all layers. ("initial" and "final" are only relevant for multi extrusion projects and don't matter anyway).

 

15 minutes ago, Smithy said:

As far as I know this plugin doesn't work with Ultimaker printers, so it will also not work with the Marlin flavor.

 

Well, technically... the post processing script works fine and adds these M117 commands. Unfortunately the UM2 firmware just ignores them. The usual Ultimaker design policy indicates that the user shall not be bothered with superfluous details. 🤷‍♂️

So: no luck with the standard firmware...

 

[Rygaard 0]

Hi @tinkergnome  Thanks for sharing your knowledge and clarifying some things.

 

31 minutes ago, tinkergnome said:

With gcode flavor "Ultimaker 2" there's only one printing temperature that is used for all layers. ("initial" and "final" are only relevant for multi extrusion projects and don't matter anyway).

I understand that this was thinking of having several advantages and especially the ease for users who want to plug in Scard and print something with quality and without problems. That's great!
But on the other hand, when you need a little more control over 3d printing this limitation or automation turns out to be a big wall for the user who would need to set something a little more elaborate than for example a single temperature for all layers.

I have been trying to read and inform myself here in the forum to understand how things work and I realized that many users when exposing the settings that were made of their respective 3d prints, these people have easy control of the 3d prints because they do not have the restriction of Flavor Ultimaker 2.
I think these users use another Flavor like Marlin.

I will try to move Flavor to Marlin and see if I succeed. If I realize that things are not going well, I will return to Flavor Ultmaker 2.

 

31 minutes ago, tinkergnome said:

Unfortunately the UM2 firmware just ignores them. The usual Ultimaker design policy indicates that the user shall not be bothered with superfluous details. 🤷‍♂️

So: no luck with the standard firmware...

In my opinion knowing the current print layer is very important information.
With this information, if the printing stops for some reason (it happened to me two days ago and I lost a job for many hours. I was printing at 0.04mm resolution) I could research how I would return to printing on that Layer that stopped 3D printing and restart the printing process on that Layer.
And so would waste no time, filament and money.
With all due respect, Ultimaker could revise this policy, as the current Print Layer information would not be a superfluous detail but very useful and very important information for the user. 🙂

[Rygaard 0]

1) Would there be a problem if in ultimaker Cura, I add a new printer (ultimaker 2+ extended) with Flavor Marlin separately and I leave the other configuration of Flavor Ultimaker 2?


2) If I have no problem with this kind of setting I made, I would like to know if there would be any problems regarding future firmware updates?
I know it's the same Ultimaker 2+ extended 3d printer, so I guess I wouldn't have any problems, just choose any of the printers and upgrade normally on ultimaker Cura... but I'd just like to confirm that I wouldn't have no kind of conflict.

Thank you

[tinkergnome 927]

9 hours ago, Rygaard said:

people have easy control of the 3d prints because they do not have the restriction of Flavor Ultimaker 2.

 

Don't forget that the whole idea dates back to 2013 or even earlier. Slicers didn't had so many advanced settings in the good old days and "Ultigcode" was an enhancement on top of the normal behavior of Marlin.

In theory you can use the same gcode file for different types of material. Temperature, retraction settings and flow rate are handled according to the material settings on the machine.

It was a pretty smart idea back then but the concept is a bit outdated, because slicing software is much more advanced nowadays (feature wise). There's a reason why Ultimaker itself doesn't use it anymore on more recent printer models.

 

3 hours ago, Rygaard said:

I add a new printer (ultimaker 2+ extended) with Flavor Marlin separately and I leave the other configuration of Flavor Ultimaker 2?

 

Yes, no problem - that's a good way to test things out.

 

3 hours ago, Rygaard said:

I would like to know if there would be any problems regarding future firmware updates?

 

No, why do expect a problem? Besides the fact that Cura can be used to send firmware binaries to the printer, those two things are pretty unrelated to each other.

You can use pretty much any available firmware version on the printer and feed it with gcode from pretty much any software that "speaks" Marlin.

 

BTW: if you start "Marlin" gcode files from the sd-card, the printer will show an "override settings..." message. That's fine, it's just the indicator that the material settings on the printer are not used (which is exactly what you want). Just press "continue".

 

[Rygaard 0]

Hi @tinkergnome Thank you so much for clarifying questions that I consider very important for understanding things here.

 

7 hours ago, tinkergnome said:

It was a pretty smart idea back then but the concept is a bit outdated, because slicing software is much more advanced nowadays (feature wise). There's a reason why Ultimaker itself doesn't use it anymore on more recent printer models.

You're absolutely right. At that time there were not so many specific and advanced settings within Slicer. It was certainly a clever idea at the time. Simplifying the user's life.

I have a question for you.
These days, for users of Ultimaker 2+ or 3d printers using Ultimaker 2 (Ultigcode) flavor, there would be a possibility of not using it anymore. And can it go the same way or shape as the latest 3d printer models?
I say this because Slicers' technology is increasingly advanced and feature specific. I think it would be interesting for the user to be able to choose whether to stay in the Ultimaker 2 flavor or the Flavor that is used in the latest 3d printer models. Please correct me if I said something wrong as I am not an advanced user.
What do you think?  Would it be possible?

 

7 hours ago, tinkergnome said:

No, why do expect a problem? Besides the fact that Cura can be used to send firmware binaries to the printer, those two things are pretty unrelated to each other.

I thought the firmware would be directly associated with Flavor being used on the machine. Just doubt of a person who does not understand much. How great to know that the two things are unrelated and separate.

 

7 hours ago, tinkergnome said:

BTW: if you start "Marlin" gcode files from the sd-card, the printer will show an "override settings..." message. That's fine,

Thanks for the tip, if I saw this "override settings" message I would think I had done something wrong and I would panic! Thank you so much for explaining this to me.

 

Thank you very much 🙂