New UM 2+ help

[1nf1n1ty 0]

I upgraded from a MonoPrice Maker Ultimate that I had for about two years. I wanted a more stable and care free printer. I finally pulled the trigger and my UM 2+ arrived today. I have spent the last 5 hours trying to get a single successful print. I haven't been able to do it. Nothing will stay attached for more than a few layers tops. Here is what I have done:

• Leveled the build plate a dozen times 
• Cleaned it with soap, water and rubbing alcohol many times
• Tried several test prints included with the printer (probably 12 or so failed prints)
• Tried glue
• Tried other files in latest version of Cura with a brim. 
  • Double checked all settings
• Flipped glass (this got my prints to stick for a couple more layers)

 

I am printing with 2.85 dark gray colorfabb PLA.

 

I am at the point where if I don't get this working soon, I am sending it back.

 

Any thoughts or advice? I have an email out to support, but they are closed for the weekend.

[Smithy 1,145]

In 99% of the cases it is because the printing bed is not correctly leved. The distance between nozzle and glass is too high. If you calibrate with the calibration card or a sheet of paper, then you should feel a good friction of the nozzle already when you move the sheet. Better too much than too little.

 

I also use a glue stick, which I apply to the glass and spread with a wet cloth. This gives me a very thin layer, which is completely sufficient.

 

 

[1nf1n1ty 0]

I understand that leveling would be the go to. I have leveled beds hundreds of times (on my old printer and now a dozen on this one). I thought the bed may be different than my old printer so I tried leveling it high. Of course nothing stuck. Then I leveled it low and it had the usual problems I leveled it as it should be, with the right amount of friction on the leveling card. 

 

I am getting a perfect first layer. 

 

Do you use the glue even with PLA? I can give that a go later, and I haven't done the wet cloth method. I won't get to it today, so hopefully some other tips will come through that I can test.

 

Oh also, I am really careful to remove the test pla that it spits out at the beginning. That ruined one of my early prints. 

[Smithy 1,145]

1 hour ago, 1nf1n1ty said:

Do you use the glue even with PLA? I can give that a go later, and I haven't done the wet cloth method.

 

Usually, yes, because it's just safer. I've had PLA prints come loose from the glass.

I only put the glue stick 3-4 times over the glass and spread it with a wet cloth. In this case a very thin layer is sufficient and it can withstand many prints. I renew this layer relatively rarely.

[1nf1n1ty 0]

The glue didn't work. Re-leveled and tried painters tape without luck. Cleaned it with Acetone and got a successful print. I'll try another one tomorrow and see how it does.

 

 

[Smithy 1,145]

I still believe that your nozzle is too far away from the bed and the filament will not be squished enough into the bed.

[1nf1n1ty 0]

So this is how I leveled it. When doing the second round using the screw nuts, I have the leveling card under the nozzle. I raise the bed using the screw until I feel friction. I then pull the card out and in and out while raising the screw slowly. At some point, moving the card in, pushes the bed down because the card is thicker than the distance from the nozzle head to the bed. I then back it off slowly until the bed no longer gets lowered by pushing the card in. There is lots of friction, and as far as I can see it, it is the minimum gap that I can get using the card as a guide.

 

 

[UbuntuBirdy 56]

Are your cooling fans working from the first layer on? I had similar issues like you described them. I changed the settings for the cooling fans: they start at a print height of 1.5mm and only with a few rpm. The rpm will increase with every layer starting at 1.5mm print height.

[Smithy 1,145]

1 hour ago, 1nf1n1ty said:

I then back it off slowly until the bed no longer gets lowered by pushing the card in.

 

I level my beds in a similar way, but leave the card under the nozzle and turn the screws until I feel a lot of friction. When I now pull out the card I cannot put it again under the nozzle. It is hard to describe, but my first layer is ok and sticks very well. 

 

Try to level nearer to the glass and you will see it helps.

[1nf1n1ty 0]

So first off, I really appreciate the time and advice. It is really nice to have the help and I am thankful for the effort.

 

I attempted another print this morning with the settings from the successful print last night. It came lose after it got about 3/8 of an inch in height.  I tried the closer leveling as suggested and a thin layer of glue. It was an instant fail. The very first line of the brim didn't stick.

 

Should it really be this difficult? I have about 25 failed prints at this point. I am not a total novice at this as I did all this and more over 2 years of printing with my old printer. I bought the Ultimaker 2+ because I wanted a solid printer that would be a stable workhorse for my printing. I am not getting that and it is very frustrating. I didn't go with the UM3 because I didn't need dual extrusion or the camera or the auto leveling (or so I thought). 

 

I feel like I have to mess around with a printer this much I should have just bought a $500 printer and saved the $2000. 

 

Very frustrating.

[1nf1n1ty 0]

On the fans question, it is set to 100%. The first layer uses the back fan as expected, then the other two kick in on the second layer.

[UbuntuBirdy 56]

Ok, the settings I talked about were not the ones I'm using at the moment, had older ones in mind. But they are not that different:

[Smithy 1,145]

1 hour ago, 1nf1n1ty said:

 I tried the closer leveling as suggested and a thin layer of glue. It was an instant fail. The very first line of the brim didn't stick.

 

Can you post a photo please, I think then it will be clearer.

[1nf1n1ty 0]

Here is a picture of the one good print base I had. Also picks of the first output to show PLA flow. Then pictures of the next couple fails. I re-leveled between them.

[Curven 28]

I always use glue or "3dlack" (basicly hairspray) on the ultimaker 2+ and Ultrimaker 3 we have at work.

On bare glass, even if very clean I have experienced tons of warping with PLA... Since I use an adhesion layer I have no more trouble...

[rayr 0]

I have exactly the same problems as your self and several time considered sending the printer back.

 

My first printer was a makrbot play and i never had a problem with adhesion printing on blue printers tape.

i upgraded to a UM 2+ and most of the time i can't get the first layer to stick.

like people have advised on here i have levelled the bed properly and even checked the flatness etc with a Dial test indicator.

frustrated by this i decided to revert back to blue printers tape and turn off the heated bed as soon and the print starts. and now i get adhesion every time.

 

I also changed the filament from Ultimater PLA to some cheap PLA i got from Amazon a while back. I am sure the problem i have is more to do with the glass than the material i am printing. but i get reliable prints now

 

If just printing on glass the best result came from cleaning the glass with hot soapy water (Fairy liquid) add ing alcohol to the equation was a guaranteed failure.

 

these are only my experiences, i would have liked to be a bit more scientific but i did not have time.

 

I think part of my problem was i was expecting a totally flawless experience for 2000 quid. my frustrations is still need to make tweaks here and there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Smithy 1,145]

Printing only on glass is a game of chance. Often it works without problems but you can never be sure. That's why I always recommend a thin layer of UHU stick. This layer can withstand many prints and doesn't have to be renewed every time.

 

If it doesn't work with the UHU stick either, then the distance nozzle bed is still not correct. Many people think they have adjusted it correctly, but this is often not the case. 

[geert_2 558]

In moist weather, printing on bare glass didn't work at all for me, in the beginning. Neither did the glue stick (but looking back, I think I used way too much glue). That is why I developed my "salt method": after cleaning (only alcohol, no detergents, no soap!!!), then wipe the glass with a tissue moistened with salt water, so there is an almost invisible mist of salt stuck to the glass plate. For PLA this greatly improves bonding when the glass is hot. But there is no bonding at all when cold, so this makes model-removal easy.

 

For the full manual, see here (and then scroll down a bit):

https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/geert-keteleer/manuals/

 

This works very well for my long and flat models. But it is not recommended for narrow, high models like lantern poles: they tend to get knocked over.

 

Further, I still think your bed could be a bit closer to the nozzle. See the photos below how the bottoms of my prints look.

 

For my UM2 printers, I made a tool to catch the priming blob, so it is not dragged into the print. It is in spring steel wire (like used in dentistry). The idea originally came from another user, but I don't remember the name. See the photos.

 

Clamp to catch priming blob:

 

 

Glossy bottom of prints, reflect light well (see plate with "design"):

 

Bottom of a print: top part is focused on the model, below is focused on the reflection of a fan cover in that bottom (I couldn't get both in-focus at the same time):

 

Inverted prism, printed with my "salt method": edges tend to warp due to strong forces of huge overhangs, but the model could be completed without coming off the bed. This is the edge of what is possible with the salt method.

 

Flat bottom, almost no lines:

 

Salt method:

 

 

[Travis7s 26]

I have an UM3 but I find the glass seems very, very sensitive to contamination. Cleaning, even with 99% alcohol, seems to throw the plate off for days, it seems like running a bunch of failed prints will "cure" the glass for me and then everything is good. I use the UHU glue liberally and avoid cleaning now, I probably haven't cleaned mine in 6-8 months and have not had a print break loose since. (we print almost every day and switch between nylon, TPU, ABS, and PLA)

[rayr 0]

update from my post.

 

I can confirm the salt method works.

I don't know if I am following the process exactly but i think so

no issues now with adhesion

 

i have to say i was getting disillusioned with the 2+ but love it now.

printing with some cheap copper PLA and Wood PLA from amazon 100% success 

 

 

[Smithy 1,145]

Thanks for the feedback!
I'm glad it worked.