Ultimaker² lead time update

[xperiment 0]

I´ve ordered the UM2 on Oct.23 and got a response that the UM2 will ship somedays from Dec.2 till Dec.20 (!!!!)

So it came perhaps this year...but I think it would be in 2014!

That´s really not good...and UM could send some free Filaments in this package or whatever for this very long time! The support is´nt working well too! I wait a couple of weeks for this answer above. A couple of weeks for 10 words, that´s awesome! NOT!

 

[gr5 2,167]

The support is´nt working well too! I wait a couple of weeks for this answer above. A couple of weeks for 10 words, that´s awesome! NOT!

 

Better that they spend their time getting all the UM2's built and shipped than replying to tickets about "where's my UM?". Right?

 

[francis-verhelst 0]

I must say, as a potential UM2 customer, i'll postpone my decision about which 3d printer for 6 months and wait to see if delivery problems clear out.

 

[Nicolinux 288]

Or you just order now, just in case the delivery problems are not sorted out. Worst case scenario - you'll get your UM2 way earlier than in 6 months

 

[geeks 1]

Hello,

 

8 days for those who have been pushed back to week 51

If this is the case, it will be under the Christmas tree!

 

Good luck for send the préparatons.

 

[xperiment 0]

Got Mail from the support. Shipment not till Dec. 20th, but in the last week of Dec. So I have the UM2 somedays in 2014. It's a mess.

[roger-fujii 0]

I must say, as a potential UM2 customer, i'll postpone my decision about which 3d printer for 6 months and wait to see if delivery problems clear out.

 

Knowing what I know now, I would follow the following strategy: /If/ you are still interested, look for a place that has it in stock. Since Makershed got a delivery while people are on 8+ week backorder, there's at least one distributor that can ship when you actually order it - why do you want to give a commercial company an interest free loan? That's what Kickstarter is for. Also, if they are still can't generate inventory ~9 months into production, I'll say that that would be an indication of non-production issues at the company, and you may want to take that into consideration.

 

[illuminarti 18]

I'm not sure what the '9 months into production' comment relates to. The UM2 was announced in late September 2013, and began shipping 1 month later. So currently we're somewhere between 6 and 10 weeks into the production period for the printer, not 9 months.

Gearing up for the new printer seems to have created some challenges - which were a combination of unexpectedly high demand, and some supply-chain constraints. However, UM as a company has been around for several years now, and continues to supply the previous UM1 model out of inventory. While I understand the frustration of the folks that are still waiting for their new printers, compared to many 3D printers launched last year (e.g., FormOne, Qu-BD Revolution, to mention just a couple) the production delays that Ultimaker has experienced thus far are really quite short.

 

[roger-fujii 0]

Better that they spend their time getting all the UM2's built and shipped than replying to tickets about "where's my UM?". Right?

 

uh, sorry, no sympathy on that front - when you¹ *tell* people to contact you for ship dates, you² can't then use it as an excuse on why you¹ aren't shipping. If you don't want people to ask, you should say/post the answer for all that might ask (ie, the initial post on this thread fails at that, since it doesn't cover anyone ordering after Oct 30th). ¹[ 'you' meaning ultimaker ] ²[Gr5]

 

It's a mess.

 

Yep. One wonders if the prosumer market will tolerate this.

 

[roger-fujii 0]

I'm not sure what the '9 months into production' comment relates to. The UM2 was announced in late September 2013, and began shipping 1 month later. So currently we're somewhere between 6 and 10 weeks into the production period for the printer, not 9 months.

 

 

6-10 weeks ( 2.5 months ) + the 6 months the poster said he will wait ('i'll postpone my decision about which 3d printer for 6 months' ), so that's 8.5 months or ~9 months.

 

 

Gearing up for the new printer seems to have created some challenges - which were a combination of unexpectedly high demand, and some supply-chain constraints. However, UM as a company has been around for several years now, and continues to supply the previous UM1 model out of inventory. While I understand the frustration of the folks that are still waiting for their new printers, compared to many 3D printers launched last year (e.g., FormOne, Qu-BD Revolution, to mention just a couple) the production delays that Ultimaker has experienced thus far are really quite short.

 

The problem isn't the production delays per se (well, at least for me). The biggest problem here is how the delays are handled. Were the company somewhat forward thinking to begin with, they would have made a run of N and promised to deliver it by Y (and they wouldn't take any more orders until they know Y can be met). That way, at most, you will have N people upset at you if you miss Y. Instead, they gave the appearance that things were fine (well, at least in early Nov), and there's a big difference in expectation between "we are trying to keep to a 2 week schedule" and "expect 6-8+ weeks before shipping". I can say for sure I would planned things differently had I known. And this is somewhat surprising since Ultimaker is already an established company, so one would think they would have a better handle on things than a startup.

 

[illuminarti 18]

Yes, I agree that things could have been handled a bit differently; I think they were keen to have a new product announcement for Maker Faire in September, and things rather got away from them once they started taking orders. I do know that they're working hard to address the issues and catch back up with the schedule.

And, FWIW, when they arrive, and they're working properly, they are amazingly good printers :-)

 

[roger-fujii 0]

Yes, I agree that things could have been handled a bit differently; I think they were keen to have a new product announcement for Maker Faire in September, and things rather got away from them once they started taking orders.

 

Oh, it's easy to see how they got into this hole. Add to this supply problems and you are not in a good place.

 

I do know that they're working hard to address the issues and catch back up with the schedule.

 

This is where our opinions diverge. Even if they are working hard, there is zero/nada/zilch difference from what the public sees between Sept 30, and today, other than it says "At the moment the lead time is 6 - 8 weeks." now on the screen when you order. Given that we are seeing people in this forum who have been waiting 8+ weeks right now, unless a) orders are dropping or b) they hired Santa's elves as extra builders after the 25th, it's hard to believe that they are going to make any progress on shortening the schedule in the near future. But this in itself is not what is really troublesome. The things I'm having the most amount of difficulty with is a) the fact that the lead time is increasing instead of decreasing (which questions what they are doing to scale up) and b) they charge you up front on something they *know* won't be built for 6+ weeks - this is such a bad business practice. I'd be far less concerned/annoyed if they kept and updated schedule and the posts on this forum do not conflict with what they say in the schedule as opposed to what is currently happening, where you are referred to a 1.5 month old schedule that we know they aren't meeting and doesn't say anything about people who ordered after Oct 30th.

 

[SandervG 1,521]

First there is something I want to set straight: '

gr5, on 07 Dec 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

 

Better that they spend their time getting all the UM2's built and shipped than replying to tickets about "where's my UM?". Right?

 

 

uh, sorry, no sympathy on that front - when you¹ *tell* people to contact you for ship dates, you can't then use it as an excuse on why you aren't shipping. If you don't want people to ask, you should say/post the answer for all that might ask (ie, the initial post on this thread fails at that, since it doesn't cover anyone ordering after Oct 30th). ¹[ 'you' meaning ultimaker ]'

 

'We' did not use anything as an excuse. Although I agree with GR5 saying that it is very important on focusing shipping out the Ultimaker 2 asap, we have different people doing different jobs. So asking about lead times does not directly interfere with the shipping frequency, and no excuses has been used.

 

Now that is clear, sales are still increasing. Increasing sales and the past supply chain difficulties have made/make it very hard to make good progress on the lead time. But I would like to insure we do our very best to ship all orders asap. There is also some kind of contradiction in what Roger says, that is not a lead time you are concerned/annoyed about, but the fact people have paid for something we can not yet deliver the same week. But without anyone paying/ordering an Ultimaker 2, there wouldn't be a lead time.

 

I don't believe there are contradicting posts on the forum, I do my best to keep everybody up to date.

It is possible though, that things change. At least, we do our very best to change things for the good, but (with the timing belts as an example), it can happen that something happens that creates an additional delay.

Given the fact that we work very hard to make positive progress on the lead time, I don't contact all waiting customers immediately, because there is a chance that within (for example) a 2 weeks notice the problem has already been resolved and instead of contacting everybody, I only have to contact the upcoming orders of 2 weeks. This saves me tons of work (because people also reply, and then I have to comfort them again), and it saves customers a lot of (unnecessary) worrying.

Because it is hard to tell how long a problem has its effect on the lead time, I have chosen to contact those who are directly effected. I do my best in my communication to be clear and forthcoming. To compensate those who are delayed, as a compensation for the inconvenience and as a gesture of good will.

 

I am looking forward hearing from you if you have any further questions or remarks.

 

[roger-fujii 0]

First there is something I want to set straight: '

[snip]

 

'We' did not use anything as an excuse. Although I agree with GR5 saying that it is very important on focusing shipping out the Ultimaker 2 asap, we have different people doing different jobs. So asking about lead times does not directly interfere with the shipping frequency, and no excuses has been used.

 

 

My sincere apologies. It is incorrect to imply that Ultimaker was using that as an excuse. The inference wasn't deliberate on my part. I was taking exception that GR5 was using it as some justification. I edited the post (still awkwardly worded, I agree, but now it's technically correct and shows what I was trying to say).

 

Now that is clear, sales are still increasing. Increasing sales and the past supply chain difficulties have made/make it very hard to make good progress on the lead time. But I would like to insure we do our very best to ship all orders asap. There is also some kind of contradiction in what Roger says, that is not a lead time you are concerned/annoyed about, but the fact people have paid for something we can not yet deliver the same week. But without anyone paying/ordering an Ultimaker 2, there wouldn't be a lead time.

 

? I have never said that I objected to any lead time. I have no objections to:

"And we start shipping the Ultimaker 2 at Ocotober 21st, and we intend to keep the leadtime under 2 weeks"

and I have stated in a previous post:

"3) Do not take any orders which won't be delivered in > 5-6 weeks (more on this a little later)"

But the current lead time of 6-8+ weeks is bordering if not excessive for something that is supposed to be ready to order. I do not see anything contradictory the statement "you shouldn't bill if you can't start processing the work", or as a corollary, "bill when you actually start working on it". Do a poll of people and see what they think of a company that charges at the moment of order, wont' start work on it for 5 weeks, and won't deliver the product for 3 weeks after that.

 

Given the fact that we work very hard to make positive progress on the lead time, I don't contact all waiting customers immediately, because there is a chance that within (for example) a 2 weeks notice the problem has already been resolved and instead of contacting everybody, I only have to contact the upcoming orders of 2 weeks. This saves me tons of work (because people also reply, and then I have to comfort them again), and it saves customers a lot of (unnecessary) worrying.

Because it is hard to tell how long a problem has its effect on the lead time, I have chosen to contact those who are directly effected. I do my best in my communication to be clear and forthcoming. To compensate those who are delayed, as a compensation for the inconvenience and as a gesture of good will.

 

But here is the problem with this approach: it's not as if the upstream (the customers who aren't immediately affected) have no effects on them. Using your example, they people > 2 weeks might have their orders delayed by let's say 3 days (this # is just for the sake of this discussion). If some other production problem causes another 2 days of delay, your upstream people are now 1 more business week behind without ever knowing that their order is being delayed. So, instead of the 6-8 weeks people are being told and expecting, it's slipped to 7+ weeks on an order. You may think it's better to tell the person just before they expect it shipped that it's going to be late a couple of weeks. I can say for me, I would rather know, so *I* don't make plans assuming the printer is going to be there when it's known a month in advance that it's going to be late.

Be that as it may, I don't think the people making these.... less than optimal decisions.. are reading this forum, so please don't take this as trying to lay the blame on anyone. And I am sure people are trying hard - though I suspect it's like 'bailing out the Titanic with a bucket' given what is observable from the outside. As this is mid-week of week 50 on the schedule, and we (still) have no clue where things currently stand, I have given up hope that they can meet their 6-8 week lead time, and am unwilling to give any more given how little/badly things are communicated. Hopefully, support will respond to my email faster than it did for Xperiment's. OAO

 

[proteus3d 0]

So, I've a simple question because I'm planning some business stuff and I've to buy some hardware/software. Just to know, If I make the Ultimaker 2 order today, which is the proposed lead time for my order ?

I'll receive it at the end of January ? I need some realistic idea about it just to make realistic business plans.

Thanks a lot

 

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi Proteus3D,

Thank you for your post.

Could you sent me a DM with some details of your order?

I can give you an update.

Thank you for your time,

 

[proteus3d 0]

Thanks for your answer, I've to make the order, so it is not done yet.

I was asking just to know the lead time for order made today or max tomorrow...

Do you have any informations about it ?

Thanks

 

Hi Proteus3D,

Thank you for your post.

Could you sent me a DM with some details of your order?

I can give you an update.

Thank you for your time,

 

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi Roger,

Thank you again for your reply.

I sent you another response on your post because I want to explain on why we take certain decisions, and perhaps you do not always agree, but hopefully you understand them. But I do not want to start an endless discussion based on this policy.

' If some other production problem causes another ..' Yes, but IF this would happen, I would contact those too.

And I still only contact those affected, and cause no unnecessary worrying.

It is not the most efficient method for me, but I aim to be efficient in those who I reach out to.

The downside is, that it sometimes is fairly short notice. I do my best to contact all those who are in need, and be as pro-active as possible.

If you have a question that our sales/support team has not answered yet, please feel free to notify me through a DM, and I will see if I can help you.

 

[sjoerd-imake3d 0]

Finally week 50,

My luck again, think i have to wait till end of the week

still nothing so won't be in today i think

 

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi Sjoerd, I happen to know your order is packed and ready to be shipped.

It is waiting for DHL to pick it up tomorrow and deliver it to your doorstep.

.. The time is almost there! Exciting.

 

[sjoerd-imake3d 0]

Damn, I thought today i would go out :-P. lol

That one more day, but really exiting.

Can't wait, but i must

 

[geeks 1]

Hi Sander,

 

For me, in theory, I should receive my UM2 next week. This is what was stated in the last email received. :cool:

 

After 2 months, I'd be delighted to receive my UM2.

 

[xperiment 0]

Hi Sjoerd, when did you ordered the UM2? My order is from Oct. 22nd and I'm still waiting. Maybe end of december..

[mnis 11]

I ordered a day earlier, Oct. 21nd and I no longer believe in Santa Claus. I am very sad.

[geeks 1]

Not better, October 21 i have the ordered!

But with a little luck, it will ship next week. The key is to receive before week 52. :roll:

Be a little patient.