Underextrusion at random positions, in top/bottom layers

[akke 0]

On my new s5 i’m having underextrusion issues in top/bottom layers and it seems to be random and/or model dependent... Small prints usually do not have this issue but anything bigger is usually underextruded at some point.

 

I’ve seen it happen in bottom layers even at the early beginning in layer 2 or even layer 3 (after layer 2 was printed without issues...)

It happens in top or bottom layers and sometimes it’s underextruding a whole full layer and the next one is fine again.

I've not seen it happening in other places.

 

With some models the printhead needs to travel while printing the top layer and I’ve seen it printing fine and starts under extruding after a travel move (and back okay after another travel move sometimes..)

 

I don’t know what to make of this but many of my prints have bad top/bottom layers and I need to get this fixed.

 

Any idea’s what could be the cause?

Edited November 21, 2019 by akke

[akke 0]

Besides the above problem I do wonder if it’s normal to see horizontal banding like seen on the picture below. If this is normal, then it’s okay but if you think this is an issue it might be related?

[akke 0]

Isn’t there anyone from Ultimaker with some advice?

[akke 0]

where is everybody ?

[Smithy 1,141]

The banding is more or less normal and depends on the filament color. White is the worst in my experience.

 

The under extrusion issues can be anything.

Have you tried another Print Core and checked the feeder?

Another filament?

Do you print too fast?

[Smithy 1,141]

On 11/28/2019 at 8:45 PM, akke said:

Isn’t there anyone from Ultimaker with some advice?

 

And only to clarify the situation and to avoid misunderstandings. The forum here is provided by Ultimaker but it is a community forum. Ultimaker support is available through your reseller.

[akke 0]

1 hour ago, Smithy said:

The banding is more or less normal and depends on the filament color. White is the worst in my experience.

 

The under extrusion issues can be anything.

Have you tried another Print Core and checked the feeder?

Another filament?

Do you print too fast?

Yes, i tried with a new printcore and cleaned the feeders. I have the issue with both printcore slots so it’s not a feeder isssue I think...

 

I recently even asked my reseller to look into this. He tried to print it too and saw the same issue in the early bottom layers already. But no solution so far, he’s still looking into this.

 

Someone else on facebook printed this too and also saw the issue. He thinks it’s normal and said things were better with a 125% flow but I have not tried a print with 125% flow myself yet because it sounds like a workaround instead of a fix of the actual problem.

 

My reseller said it will take a while to find this because he has others things to do... but I’m stuck now because I can’t get these bigger prints finished with a nice closed layer.

Edited December 9, 2019 by akke

[Smithy 1,141]

OK, so you already have tried to basics, that's good.

Currently I have no more ideas, but maybe someone else can give more advises.

[DidierKlein 729]

Hi,

 

What are the settings? Do you have enough top layers? 

 

Maybe it's a temperature issue? 

 

I'm also curious, the other who tried and had the same issue, did they try on the S5 or on other printers?

 

Maybe you can change the top/bottom line width, not sure it would help.

 

There is also a setting to change the flow for only the top/bottom lines

[Curven 28]

I have experienced the same kind of problem on our UM3 and for us the problem came form the filament poping out of the guiding bearing in the feeder and then grinding the feeder arm untill the feeder couldn't push the filament enough any more...

What we had has since been shown on the forum here:

Did you see any kind of grinding on your filament?

 

[akke 0]

@DidierKlein I've tried changing many settings after seeing the issue with the default Cura (Cura 4.3.0) profile. Every setting I tried did not fix the issue so I'm back at the default Cura profile now. I'm printing with PLA in a 0.4AA core and 0.15mm layer height, default cura profile. I also tried Cura 4.4beta, no difference.

 

On one particular print I tried increasing the print temperature (using the fine tune menu, while printing) when I saw the problem. I increased it to 15°C (by 5°C increments) before I saw some improvement but after a couple minutes the same problem appeared again so I think it was just a coincidence. I also tried printing one object with a 10°C higher temperature but unfortunately it didn't help.

 

I also tried decreasing the top/bottom surface speed, yet the same issue appeared.

 

I tried many other settings too, and because nothing seemed to help I was thinking it must be a hardware issue. That's why I contacted my reseller and asked him to print it on one of their S5's and see what happens. The next day he told me that he saw the exact same issue on his test print in layer 2 or 3 already. So he stopped the print and he's now investigating / awaiting response from Ultimaker. But it's taking quite some time and I'm stuck being unable to successfully print a some models right now.

 

It's printing 7 top/bottom layers and I've seen prints starting successfully printing all 7 bottom layers, infill and 4 or 5 layers of the top and then suddenly, in layer 6 or 7 starts to underextrude. And the weirdest thing is: when it continues there are no other signs of underextrusion anywhere else in the print.

 

It's *always* in the bottom or top solid layers. Which are offcourse the most dense layers in my prints.

 

The guy on facebook also tried on his S5. The model is too big to test on a UM3/S3.

 

 

I'm considering  changing the top/bottom flow to 125% and test again and/or change the top/bottom line width as suggested but the printer is now busy for the next 2 days so I can't test right now. 

 

But isn't changing the flow rate just a  workaround instead of a fix for the actual problem?

 

Ps: in case anyone is interested to try. I can provide you with the 3MF file so you can do a test print on your S5 too.

 

 

 

[akke 0]

41 minutes ago, Curven said:

I have experienced the same kind of problem on our UM3 and for us the problem came form the filament poping out of the guiding bearing in the feeder and then grinding the feeder arm untill the feeder couldn't push the filament enough any more...

What we had has since been shown on the forum here:

Did you see any kind of grinding on your filament?

 

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for your input!

 

There is no grinding on the filament over here. I already checked the feeders and there are no signs of damage or anything. I'm also having this issue on both feeders which should rule out one defective feeder.

 

This, combined with the fact that other S5 owners seem to be having the same issue with my print, doesn't make me think I have a faulty/broken hardware.

 

 

 

 

[akke 0]

For the record:

 

The company where I bought the S5 from also tried this print on one of their own S5 systems and they too saw the same issue. This is a picture they sent me and as you can see, the problem is clearly visible there too.

[DidierKlein 729]

If you have the model file, please share it so it can be tested.

 

I'm curious does it happen on any flat model like this one?

 

 

[akke 0]

6 hours ago, DidierKlein said:

If you have the model file, please share it so it can be tested.

 

I'm curious does it happen on any flat model like this one?

 

 

 

I've seen it on other prints too, yes. The last couple of weeks I'm printing scaled versions of architectural models and I've seen it happen on almost every model. So I think it happens on every flat model like these...

[akke 0]

I'm fighting this issue for over 3 months now and I'm still unable to print several models due to this.

 

My distributor (Distrinova) confirmed that the issue is not an issue on my machine. They have the same issue when trying to print it on one of their Ultimaker S5 systems. They tried with different colors, different materials, it doesn't seem to help at all and they said it's very strange because every print is a little different and it seems to be random.

 

They asked Ultimaker for advice, over a month ago, but they haven't replied so far and my distributor is out of ideas. They have no solution and will send a reminder to Ultimaker.

 

This Ultimaker S5 isn't a cheap device and it's unbelievable that after over 3 months I'm still unable to print a couple of models because of underextrusion issues nobody can seem to fix.

 

I'm considering buying a Bondtech QR extruder and see if this helps. The can be installed on the S5 but the flow sensor needs to be disabled. I'm not even sure the underextrusion issue I'm seeing is related to the extruder but I'm willing to try by installing this Bondtech QR extruder.

 

Unless someone in here has a better idea or suggestions?