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Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

Hey there! I just updated to Cura 4.4 and I started having issues. Some faulty lines on outer walls that are made by Cura but they don't appear on the preview. I found that the problem is on the GCode after opening the GCode on IdeaMaker slicer... Those lines appears on the printed thing too, and are very weird. :(  I have checked the stl on Win 3dBuilder and NetFabb and no problems were found, then I sliced other stl's and the same problem happened...

I'm new to this forum, but as far I've searched, nothing like that has appeared.

The stl is attached. deadpool_withSupportsfix.stldeadpool_withSupports.stl  CE3_deadpool_withSupportsfix.gcode

Thanks in advance.

Cura 4.4 for Windows (10)

Layer height 0.12

Wall thickness 0.8

Wall line count 2

Print speed 60mm/s

linespreview.thumb.png.e2e27b9c928cc173ae98be4bc063181f.pnglines1.thumb.png.f4fa110429b4f55594aa96ab7f98c713.pnglines2.thumb.png.925b33e381f9b7ae258359dc85bfd3a0.pnglines3.thumb.png.1d7026674fac40129abca06410069511.png

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

Hello @Garand. I loaded your gcode into 2 other viewers and neither show the horizontal artifacts that are in your images so I think the problem is in IdeaMaker.

 

Screenshot_2019-11-24_07-46-34.thumb.png.9eff31d38e000d74e9ea3b47e0ebdf66.png

Screenshot_2019-11-24_07-46-23.thumb.png.fcc78eeb3996b803a66b9d25c27b810e.png

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

Hey there @burtoogle! That's the catch, when I print it, those lines appears on. The deal is that only IdeaMaker is showing the problem... The printer is an ender 3 Pro and I 100% sure that there is no z wobble or extrusion problems because I sliced the same file on cura 4.3 and it printed Ok as every GCode viewer showed (including IdeaMaker. 

Ps: I spent the night setting up the profile and I found that when Z Hop is on, the damned lines appear, no matter what other option is on, including  combing. I've checked the light speed problem and the speeds are ok.

 

Ps2: I have no photo of the Deadpool, but here is one of a controller support that came with the same issue. (Cura said it was a ok and IdeaMaker showed the lines when I opened the Cura GCode): IMG_20191124_101236.thumb.jpg.4ad80ec5b2e23f8d19e997dedc423936.jpgIMG_20191124_101228.thumb.jpg.1975456a804a852c8793805d6525028c.jpg

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

I'm extremely skeptical about this.  I think the lines on the print and the lines in Ideamaker are a coincidence.  I'd like to see the same print in "real life" and in ideamaker to see fi the lines "line up".

 

Now this blue print - those horizontal lines are caused by a layer either under or over extruded.  I guess the tow most obvious lines are under extruded and the 3rd most obvious - near the top is over extruded.   Because you have both over and under extruded that limits the possibilities:

1) Z issues

2) Temperature issues

 

#2 - It could be that your nozzle gets colder for a whole layer and then recovers (so it extrudes less that layer) and then hets hotter near the top.  This would have to be at least 5C to be visible.

 

#1 - much more likely.  But 10 different possible causes and a pain to figure out.  What happens is that sometimes it doesn't move enough - for example if you have 0.1 layers and it moves 0.09 for 5 layers and then it suddenly moves 0.15mm (eventually it always catches up).  Those 0.09 overextruded layers by 10% aren't visible but the .15 layer (33% underextruded) is easy to see.

 

Basically this is caused by play but it's hard to debug 0.05mm of play (half the thickness of a sheet of paper).  Often it can be fixed by cleaning your z screws but it can be caused by z bearings, z rods, z screws, and most importantly z nut.  It can often be fixed (or improved) temporarily by tying lead weights to either end of your Z (at least 2 kilos to each end).

 

You can try a quick cleaning with a tissue and a toothpick/small screwdriver to get in the threads but be aware these z screws are typically triple helix (3 separate grooves) so cleaning one groove will miss the other 2.  You only need to clean at the bottom if you are only printing small test parts.

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

Oh and by the way - z wobble would not create these sharp lines.  Wobble creates much larger bands - more like 5mm tall.

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

Hello @gr5! I would agree with your options 1) 2) and #2, but they don't explain why going back to Cura 4.3 made those lines disappear... 

About #1, shouldn't that happen with every print I make, Since it's a ''mechanic'' issue? I'm not finding the gcode (probably replaced with an 4.3 cura sliced gcode by mistake) for the blue part, but when I saw the first time and compared with the print, the lines were exactly in the same spots.

 

About the Z Hop, do you have any ideias about that? 

1 hour ago, Garand said:

Ps: I spent the night setting up the profile and I found that when Z Hop is on, the damned lines appear, no matter what other option is on, including  combing. I've checked the light speed problem and the speeds are ok.

 

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

At this time, i'm printing a Abraham Lincoln Bust with and without Z hop, when they're done, I tell the results.

4 minutes ago, Garand said:

Ps: I spent the night setting up the profile and I found that when Z Hop is on, the damned lines appear, no matter what other option is on, including  combing. I've checked the light speed problem and the speeds are ok.

 

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

So if z-hop used or not is making the difference I would guess that the printer is losing steps on z-hop. Maybe it needs slower z-hop speed or reduced z-hop jerk/accel?

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

@burtoogle I am printing to see if deactivating the z-hop will make real difference. The difference made was on the GCode preview. 

But, what do you think of these settings?:

Z hop Speed 10mm/s

Z hop when rectrated - yes

Z hop height 0.4mm

These are for the 0.12 profile

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview
32 minutes ago, gr5 said:

I think the lines on the print and the lines in Ideamaker are a coincidence.  I'd like to see the same print in "real life" and in ideamaker to see fi the lines "line up"

@gr5 I found it:

 

 

1 hour ago, Garand said:

IMG_20191124_101236.thumb.jpg.4ad80ec5b2e23f8d19e997dedc423936.jpg

ps4lines2.thumb.png.17e0ccb1d6e921c05828e098dd30da54.png

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview
23 minutes ago, Garand said:

But, what do you think of these settings?:

Z hop Speed 10mm/s

Z hop when rectrated - yes

Z hop height 0.4mm

These are for the 0.12 profile

 

They look OK. That z-hop speed is very slow, on my delta I use 300mm/s but deltas can do that.

 

Perhaps the z accel or jerk is wrong? I guess that's set in the printer and not by Cura. Or perhaps it can be set in the start gcode?

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

@burtoogle Ender 3 Pro Maximum Z-hop speed looks like it's 10mm/s. I don't know about the jerk, but in the profile i'm using it's 8mm/s.

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview
2 hours ago, Garand said:

@gr5 I found it:

wtf?  Please post that STL file somewhere.

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

Sorry.  I'm an idiot.  I meant the gcode file.

 

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Posted (edited) · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

@gr5 This one: CE3_PS4_Controller_Stand.gcode

This is after I updated the profile from where I get them from: CE3_PS4_Controller_Stand3.gcode Same STL

 

After updating the profile, one of the layers has gone, but two of them remain there. If I deactivate the z hop, all of them disappear.

 

Edited by Garand

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview
11 minutes ago, Garand said:

If I deactivate the z hop, all of them disappear.

 

Really does sound like your printer is missing z-steps.

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

@burtoogle Sorry, 

3 minutes ago, burtoogle said:

If I deactivate the z hop, all of them disappear.

I meant disappear on the GCode preview, i'm printing at this time a test to confirm that.

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

@burtoogle - this "ideamaker" viewer is free and there's even appimage versions.

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

So I couldn't figure out why some layers look slightly different in ideamaker but I did notice that those layers that look different don't have any z hops in them.  90% of the layers have a z hop at some point but the layers that are *different* don't.

 

So realize that when it is doing the outermost layer - since that is the last thing done on the layer, if there is a single zhop anywhere earlier then it is approaching that particular Z height from above.  But on layers that have no zhop it is approaching that layer from below.  This can make a difference in how it looks.

 

I've always said that zhop should only be used for delta printers and this is why.  You get a different Z height if you approach from below versus from above.

 

This is not true for deltaprinters because they have to deal with "play" much more seriously else all moves would be messed up.  

 

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

Hmmm. Thanks for the analysis! So, there is anyway to have z-hop on all layers or should I just stop using z-hop? At this time, I haven't seen any difference on the test prints i'm running to check the problem, the quality seems the same and looks like no aesthetic difference (with and without z hop). 

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

As far as I know z-hop was invented for delta printers and never meant to be used for non-delta printers.  I could be wrong.  I've NEVER used the feature.  Well I used it once and realized quickly it was a bad idea.  So of thousands of prints, I think only 1 had zhop turned on.

 

 

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

I can't think of how to ensure zhop runs on every layer unless you add a tower and print the tower and your print at the same time.  But zhop I think makes stringing worse as well?  I forget.

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

By the way, that ps4 thing with the logo - it doesn't need any support for that logo side (is it a logo?).  You should disable support.  It will come out MUCH nicer without support.

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Posted · Weird lines on outer walls that does not appear on preview

@gr5 Oh, I didn't know about that

7 minutes ago, gr5 said:

As far as I know z-hop was invented for delta printers and never meant to be used for non-delta printers

I'm just a few months inside the 3d printing world, but loving it, specially because the community support!

I asked about not using the z-hop cause makers muse once showed a x-mas tree that failed due to no z-hop, but now I believe it was an exception...

About the support, yes it's the ps4 logo! Thanks for the tip! I'll remove the supports  for the next print. 

I believe my problem is solved at this time then!

Thanks @gr5 and @burtoogle

 

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